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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Doug S on June 30, 2012, 07:14:01 PM
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I've just read a topic the other day I believe by alan. The day before yesterday we had a 290 piece order printed in simulated process for an event this weekend. The lady asked me to hold the screens so she could call when she needed more, so I figured I could handle that for one day. I had a 230 mesh for the underbase and 5 305 mesh for the top colors. They were all shurlocs. I locked them down in the printheads to keep them from moving when I shut the press off. The next morning I come in and the last screen in the setup had the prettiest rip right down the middle. What gives? How it could print 290 prints and do fine and when just sitting there rip, I don't know what the heck happened. Thank God it didn't happen during the job.
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screens rip, part of the business. For no reason at all sometimes.
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It doesn't take much to finish off a screen once it develops a hole or tear. Did you remove the squeegees when you finished? More tension, more problems.
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It doesn't take much to finish off a screen once it develops a hole or tear. Did you remove the squeegees when you finished? More tension, more problems.
Just a note on this point.
In the last few years, as evidenced here, and in the industry in general, there has been a trend towards higher mesh counts, and higher tensions, (sometimes incredibly high, even possibly getting past the point of maximum return for the risk)
I would look at squeegee pressure, and floodbar pressure, the squeegees and bars themselves, and the scrubbers and brushes and techniques used in cleaning, and as mentioned also, pressure washers themselves. These are all now potential weapons of mass destruction.
As for the (possibly) self-destructing Shurloc panels, like anything manufactured, these could have been a bad batch, or defect more likely with certain meshes and thread combination.
Hopefully, they will chime in.
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Mmm. I was about to try a few panels for a four of july project
my guess is that not just fireworks goes POP
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It doesn't take much to finish off a screen once it develops a hole or tear. Did you remove the squeegees when you finished? More tension, more problems.
Mmm. I was about to try a few panels for a four of july project
my guess is that not just fireworks goes POP
No I didn't remove the squeegees and floodbars. It could've been because of that I suppose. Also,doublestroke don't let that discourage you. I've only had this happen once on the press and this was also a conversion frame. I suspect that the static that the conversion kit was mounted to might have been a fraction larger than 23 x 31 making the mesh stretch a little tighter than it's rated for. I'm going to that check Monday. I have however had them pop when they are setting in the screen rack for no rhyme or reason. I have about 60 of them and that's happened about 12 times mostly higher mesh counts though.
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I've used Shur-Loc panels for the last 8 or so years. I have some that have lasted that entire 8 years, not many but some, and I've had some that pop the first day of use. It happens, sometimes even in bunches and sometimes without reason.
Personally, I rarely tighten above 30n. I honestly see no benefit of going higher, but do see an increased pop rate. Maybe I'm just clumsy.
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Most of our higher mesh EZ frame panels have busted, just sitting in the dark room or waiting to be reclaimed. At one point I had 4 330S screens and now I have one left, and they've been used about 2 times each before they busted. I had 6 305's and not one of them busted on press, they bust when they are sitting around waiting for something. It's almost like the strain of waiting for the next job is more than they can bare. The 156's, 110's, 195's all hold up well until they get a hole in them, but the higher mesh simply bust right down the side usually and I've not had a single EZ screen bust while on press.
The day I threw the massive hissy fit my guy was taping up a 305 that I had just stretched a few days earlier, and he spun it around, plopped it down to tape the outside and bam, by dropping the frame about 2" the impact caused the mesh to snap.
I love the product, it's worth the headaches but I'm finding that about 80% of my higher mesh counts can't make it through a year in production with very limited usage so I do think there is room for improvement with the panels.
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I'd say we go through a fair bit of the panels, but such is the nature of a high tension beast. We talked to Jim at Shurloc and went over few things we were doing and reduced the rips by 50%.
Most definitely give them a call and see what could be causing some of the issues.
pierre
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Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
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check the edges of the frame on the bottom one. I have a feeling you'll find the it was hit (should have a nick in it probably pretty close to the center of rip that is closest to the edge).
that is what we are finding on our busted mesh.
I have some frames with rounded edges from Sonny and they seem to last a lot longer than the others. I wonder if that is the reason why.
pierre
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In this same vein.
We should all know about caustic haze removers doing this, but there are also some ink cleaners that are not compatible with glued screens.
I seem to remember this spelled out on the CCI site when they listed tons of choices of otherwise similar seeming products. I hope that for everyone's sake, they have leaned out their selection, simplifying the choices.
One of those pics looks like the mesh has separated as well as ripped.
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That is 3 ripped screens in as many days. I am getting tired of this. I am beginning to think the dip tank solution is weakening something?
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That is 3 ripped screens in as many days. I am getting tired of this. I am beginning to think the dip tank solution is weakening something?
Welcome to my world fellas. Some wonder why I have 3 huge bald spots that just showed up on the back of my head, busted screens has a little to do with it.
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Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
I had two screen pop like the top picture. One was on the press and the other was just sitting in the dark room all coated up minding it's own business. Gerry, what make is that screen?
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Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
The top screen the ones with the stamp of the date/mesh on them are screens from china. I had a supplier sell me about 20 of these and in less then 3 months over half of them came unglued. I think I only have 5 or so left. Everyone said it was the chemicals that I was using but that was not the case. Those screens are junk and don't buy them anymore. Under the glue they have really deep grind marks. I think this is part of the problem with them, that and the glue job sucks.
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Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
I had two screen pop like the top picture. One was on the press and the other was just sitting in the dark room all coated up minding it's own business. Gerry, what make is that screen?
The top picture is from American Alloy or AA Frames whatever they go by which has lasted quite awhile. Well at least over a year.
The bottom is chinese from a company here in Hayward Ca. Not sure if they stretch them here in the states or not but they are definitely a chinese company. That screen I have only had for a few months.
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Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
The top screen the ones with the stamp of the date/mesh on them are screens from china. I had a supplier sell me about 20 of these and in less then 3 months over half of them came unglued. I think I only have 5 or so left. Everyone said it was the chemicals that I was using but that was not the case. Those screens are junk and don't buy them anymore. Under the glue they have really deep grind marks. I think this is part of the problem with them, that and the glue job sucks.
I am getting frustrated enough to try Sonny's frames lol! Dont call me Sonny I will call you when I am ready.
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,Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
I had two screen pop like the top picture. One was on the press and the other was just sitting in the dark room all coated up minding it's own business. Gerry, what make is that screen?
The top picture is from American Alloy or AA Frames whatever they go by which has lasted quite awhile. Well at least over a year.
The bottom is chinese from a company here in Hayward Ca. Not sure if they stretch them here in the states or not but they are definitely a chinese company. That screen I have only had for a few months.
Ok. Mine are Xenon's. Wierd how it split like yours.
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Ok great so Xenons do the same thing. I am starting to wonder if it is a chemical thing.
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I use all Franmar products. I don't know if they are harsh enough to destroy the mesh.
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That is 3 ripped screens in as many days. I am getting tired of this. I am beginning to think the dip tank solution is weakening something?
Welcome to my world fellas. Some wonder why I have 3 huge bald spots that just showed up on the back of my head, busted screens has a little to do with it.
You would think Terry would have understood how fragile these things are after everything we talked about and knowing how you threw a fit (he even recanted how you said that your boy using spray tack was just being plain lazy and how much it pissed you off)... you would think he would be more careful. Still he just kind of flops the screens around. *sigh*
I like when you post stories of your screens busting from so little abuse (the 2" drop) because I quote it to him in passing, like a "poor Alan" story and I hope it makes an impact on how easy it is to bust one and hope that he starts caring a little more.
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Geez I come in this morning to 2 ripped statics that I reclaimed on Friday.
The top screen the ones with the stamp of the date/mesh on them are screens from china. I had a supplier sell me about 20 of these and in less then 3 months over half of them came unglued. I think I only have 5 or so left. Everyone said it was the chemicals that I was using but that was not the case. Those screens are junk and don't buy them anymore. Under the glue they have really deep grind marks. I think this is part of the problem with them, that and the glue job sucks.
I am getting frustrated enough to try Sonny's frames lol! Dont call me Sonny I will call you when I am ready.
Now that's funny.
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Seriously now, cheap frames, and they didn't last long--is this surprising?
BTW as far as the glue discussion goes, deep grind marks aren't a big deal if they clean them well, prime them, and use the proper viscosity glue--which they probably aren't. Also, there are CA glues and two part glues--as I understand it two part glues hold up better with dip tank chems.
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update: the screens that I had that didn't even last 3 months (many only one time) had a sticker on the end that had www.gold-up.com (http://www.gold-up.com) on it. It is easy to take off so many suppliers will take it off.
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update: the screens that I had that didn't even last 3 months (many only one time) had a sticker on the end that had [url=http://www.gold-up.com]www.gold-up.com[/url] ([url]http://www.gold-up.com[/url]) on it. It is easy to take off so many suppliers will take it off.
Yeah I got a bunch of those. They use the red glue. I purchased them direct though
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Newman's + good mesh (not Chinese)= good results. You will get what you pay for.
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i had 2 static screens in the last 2 weeks or so separate ...were fine in the reclaim process, i opened the screen cabinet to coat them, about a 16" seperation from the glue down the sides....this hasnt happened to me in years, now 2 in 2 weeks...
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Screens ripping is another good reason to go with newman frames you can restretch a new screens in a few minutes while the aluminum frame has to sit around or be shipped somewhere to be restretched.
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Pshaw. A mechanical stretcher is a few hundred bucks... within the means of all but the most financially challenged shops. Don't get me wrong, I love rollers, but I also love having screens that weigh 1/2 to 1/3 as much as they do...
Plus, when you restretch your own, and your screens lose tension or pop, you know exactly who to blame. ;D
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Or with limited space. I think the only option for me would be shurloc ez frames due to only the small tool required to stretch a frame.
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I love rollers, but I also love having screens that weigh 1/2 to 1/3 as much as they do...
I concur. I do think stretching your own statics is probably a false economy though for the time/space/skills needed.
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I was thinking I should have elaborated on the statement anyway--for those running a screen stock of twenty to forty screens or so, it's not likely a good idea.
I'd agree that perhaps with the skills, and time involved (those factors very closely related, for certain,) it would be difficult for many.
Oh, and Gerry--I stretch on the same table I load off of for the auto--and the tools take up very little room. Although it's not even close to the best solution, it's a very space-efficient one.
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Or with limited space. I think the only option for me would be shurloc ez frames due to only the small tool required to stretch a frame.
I am not sure that EZ frames take less space . . you need to have a big flat surface to lay the screen on and the holding bar has to be permanently be mounted on it. We end up putting the films in that area, but when we need to stretch everything needs to come off. A stretching table is probably about the same size as the space needed for the EZ frames.
pierre