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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: ZooCity on July 11, 2012, 02:56:27 AM
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Very happy with the product so far and looking forward to using it much more. We saved epic amounts of production time using it and our client got what I feel is a somewhat better product. In the end we ran about $28 worth of activated ink, including wastage, to fill a roughly $4k order- standard front heart and upper back, appx 78 sq. in. total print area per piece. Needless to say I'm very impressed, this would have cost much more to run our phthalate-free plastisols in a print-flash-print scenario in terms of labor, electrical usage and ink. We experienced zero dry in on press and we are manual printers keep in mind. All we did was occasionally mist the screens with plain water, we did not use retarder in any of the mixes and, if flooded, the screens can be left for short breaks with no problems. Further the discharge was only moderately aggressive to our stencils with zero breakdown, zero pinholes and a relatively easy reclaim with no hazing or staining after de-hazing. We found the active life is approximately 8 hrs as the activator label indicated. Coverage figures in the TDS are also accurate by my calculations at 600 sq ft to a gallon.
^^^ above is an email I sent to our rep ^^^
Granted most of that up there is praise for discharge inks generally but the way the Texcharge handles on press deserves consideration. Those who are having issues with Texcharge, tell me what your problems were because, following the mfg spec, we had zero issues on this first run.
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can u show a pic?
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btw for those of you interested including you Pierre 800-255-4562 is the CS # for Fuji Films they will point you in the right direction as far as supply and distribution. You can navigate their web for the Pantone formulas
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Very happy with the product so far and looking forward to using it much more. We saved epic amounts of production time using it and our client got what I feel is a somewhat better product. In the end we ran about $28 worth of activated ink, including wastage, to fill a roughly $4k order- standard front heart and upper back, appx 78 sq. in. total print area per piece. Needless to say I'm very impressed, this would have cost much more to run our phthalate-free plastisols in a print-flash-print scenario in terms of labor, electrical usage and ink. We experienced zero dry in on press and we are manual printers keep in mind. All we did was occasionally mist the screens with plain water, we did not use retarder in any of the mixes and, if flooded, the screens can be left for short breaks with no problems. Further the discharge was only moderately aggressive to our stencils with zero breakdown, zero pinholes and a relatively easy reclaim with no hazing or staining after de-hazing. We found the active life is approximately 8 hrs as the activator label indicated. Coverage figures in the TDS are also accurate by my calculations at 600 sq ft to a gallon.
^^^ above is an email I sent to our rep ^^^
Granted most of that up there is praise for discharge inks generally but the way the Texcharge handles on press deserves consideration. Those who are having issues with Texcharge, tell me what your problems were because, following the mfg spec, we had zero issues on this first run.
So if I understand this correctly the order you ran was 100 pcs or less as 1 gallon covers 600 sq. ft. and the print was 78 sq. inches which is 6+ sq. ft. Or is my math way off. If not then this ink is $28 per gallon.
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Your math is way off Sonny. 1 sq ft =144 sq in. 560 pcs at 78 sq in each is 43680 sq in/144 = 303.3 sf for the run. I think it was 1500 grams of ink to put it another way.
pics in a few.
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Good to hear. I'm supposed to have samples in a few days.
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Your math is way off Sonny. 1 sq ft =144 sq in. 560 pcs at 78 sq in each is 43680 sq in/144 = 303.3 sf for the run. I think it was 1500 grams of ink to put it another way.
pics in a few.
I knew I was missing something. :o :o :o :o Thanks for the math lesson. 8) 8) 8) 8)
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i love the ease of use of this product, but I also tested Matsui and after several washings, the Matsui was more true to its original color. Still think i would stick to sericol though.
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i love the ease of use of this product, but I also tested Matsui and after several washings, the Matsui was more true to its original color. Still think i would stick to sericol though.
Are you adding in any Fixer?
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Here's some crappy cell phone pics, sorry, in a rush. the top pic has the truer color, not sure why the camera does that. These look great in real life, I swear.
I wash tested twice on HD cycle. Then, since it's a new system for us, I'll probably throw one in my own laundry for a month or two and compare it. How does everyone else gauge this?
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i love the ease of use of this product, but I also tested Matsui and after several washings, the Matsui was more true to its original color. Still think i would stick to sericol though.
Are you adding in any Fixer?
no, should i. what difference will that make.
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I noticed that it helps with the colors holding up better. According to the rep it helps bind the pigment or something like that. I know it makes a difference in wash test. We add about 1-3%.
Hopefully Tony will have a much better technical answer....lol
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Interesting regarding the fixer-n, I considered these products to be work arounds for not having proper curing equip or needing to run at higher belt speeds and wasn't aware it increased wash fastness. Sericol does not offer such an additive, only a retarder.
Of course, Sericol does not recommend using any other product lines in collusion with theirs and doing so will void any recourse in the event of the ink's failure. I'm going to go out on a limb and presume that they have omitted the various additives offered by other systems for a reason and, since the Texcharge line has been in production for so long, have the inks dialed to the point we they aren't necessary. From our limited experience that appears to be the case; I see no need for modification other than thinning with water in small amounts.
Also, for those asking questions, Sericol is offered for direct sales, shipping out of K.C. Yes, they are more geared for large qty product orders but are reaching out to smaller operations. A gallon is still your smallest qty direct, you can use Atlas, possibly Jim at Dimensional Products for quarts at a premium. Keep in mind these aren't PCs but RFU inks, printable as-is, from the bucket as spot colors so it shouldn't take terribly long to work through the gallons although I'm sure there's few colors that will sit for a long time. They can also be used, un-activated, as WB inks and do carry an extender base for those applications though we have yet to thoroughly test/compare this on various substrates.
FWIW, we ran these pieces with Aquasol HVP, no diazo, no hardener, just good 'ol strategic blockout using the same and a hearty post-exposure.
Last thing to add here is I heard some posts reporting the ink 'gums' or 'gels' up on them in the screen. You may need to pre-wet your stencils before printing. A proper discharge/wb stencil is bone dry when it hits the press and may absorb a fair degree of the water in your ink. To overcome this, mist down the squeegee side with either plain water or a 50/50 watered down cleaner like simple green or, my choice, TW ink S-032 cleaner. Wipe off excess, wipe the print side and go.
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You may need to pre-wet your stencils before printing. A proper discharge/wb stencil is bone dry when it hits the press and may absorb a fair degree of the water in your ink. To overcome this, mist down the squeegee side with either plain water or a 50/50 watered down cleaner like simple green or, my choice, TW ink S-032 cleaner. Wipe off excess, wipe the print side and go.
please explain more.. i have been using texcharge for a long time and never heard of this.. you say before adding ink to your screen wipe the screens down with 50/50 simple green and water then add ink? and this is done when the screens are burnt and dry? what does this help with?
thanks man!
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When I used to print flatstock with WB inks sometimes the first hit would gum up the ink, presumably from
the dry stencil absorbing a bunch of moisture from the ink all at once. Pre-wetting would fix this.
Haven't had to do it with textile, but it's in my arsenal if need be.
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What eb said Pat and yes, when the screens are burnt, dry, ready to go on press, just before adding the ink. I started doing some flatstock with wb and got in the habit. Never tried textile wb without the technique so I wasn't aware that it wasn't needed. Noted, but we'll keep doing it all the same, I think it makes sense to pre-charge the stencil with a little h20. My guess is the soap just helps it penetrate.
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Nothing like a freeze up on 25x38 sheets. Ugh.
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had a freeze up last nite on the tempo, totally sucked and could not be saved. it's hard when the rest position isn't flooded and its ninety plus in the shop.
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it's hard when the rest position isn't flooded and its ninety plus in the shop.
I believe it's as simple as flipping the leads on two switches, could be wrong though.
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eh? ours floods while up, as it is dropping down so we wouldn't be able to load the table if it were flooded. is the carriage independent of this?
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I believe you are correct, I don't remember the Tempo much, but on the AWT that worked the same way
you could leave it flooded and still have enough (although reduced) room to load.