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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: blue moon on July 27, 2012, 09:44:41 AM

Title: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: blue moon on July 27, 2012, 09:44:41 AM
has anybody tried it? It would obviously require a white, so it would end up being five colors, but it sounds intriguing . . .

pierre
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: Sbrem on July 27, 2012, 02:52:59 PM
not that exactly, but we've done discharge white base with plastisol cmyk on top, flash the white. I think it depends on the base color under the dye, is it natural or white? Years ago, we used to make a white printer that went down first by sandwiching the cmyk films together, cutting a mask around the image, and contacting that so we would get a film that represented the spaces between the cmyk dots; it went down first, no flash. I would think you might need at least that to start, then see what you get under the cmyk discharge.

Steve
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 27, 2012, 03:02:51 PM
got screens burned and will be printing probably monday.  CCI discharge base, Union triple strength CMYK.  Here is what I am attempting.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/jlansdell/marvel_character_group-crop.jpg)
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: JBLUE on July 27, 2012, 03:13:05 PM
Thats going to be badd ass. I cant wait for this one.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: sportsshoppe on July 27, 2012, 04:04:48 PM
Impressive!!!! can't wait to see.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: Dottonedan on July 27, 2012, 04:53:06 PM
I've done about 4 jobs using 4 clr process on black tees. Discharge white top highlight color.  The results were good and no hand. it was exciting to see process on black with no hand but still, at the same time I couldn't help but think how much brighter it might be on white tees. So, the customer then just happened to request that same job on a white tee also. So, here's the trick. You make the white print look like the print does on the black tee. Thats the goal. So they look consistent.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 27, 2012, 06:09:44 PM
fingers crossed! wish me luck!
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: blue moon on July 27, 2012, 06:25:37 PM
fingers crossed! wish me luck!

that looks like it will be a lot of fun. 'will definitely keep the fingers crossed for you!

Make sure you post the results.

pierre
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 27, 2012, 07:01:48 PM
fingers crossed! wish me luck!

that looks like it will be a lot of fun. 'will definitely keep the fingers crossed for you!

Make sure you post the results.

pierre

No doubt!
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 30, 2012, 03:52:28 PM
here it is on white, White, yellow, highlight white, magenta, cyan, black.  I will be dropping in the discharge tomorrow morning and posting a new pic.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/jlansdell/2012-07-30_14-59-54_598.jpg)
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 30, 2012, 03:58:32 PM
another pic on black--white, yellow, highlightwhite, magenta, cyan, black.   Pics sux, it does look pretty good.  Tomorrow I will have the discharge pic!  Fingers still crossed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/jlansdell/2012-07-30_15-31-15_570.jpg)
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on July 30, 2012, 09:19:12 PM
who did the seps for you?
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: Dottonedan on July 30, 2012, 10:16:52 PM
who did the seps for you?

He's got an employee that is a member here as well. If I remember his screen name Is Raven.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 30, 2012, 11:02:48 PM
yep, ravenmark.  he is a badmofo!
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on July 31, 2012, 07:50:03 AM
i would say he is. great job.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: ravenmark on July 31, 2012, 07:56:03 AM
Stoked to see the results of our discharge underbase attempt today. I can do the best seps in the world but it means nothing without a great printer. Great prints take great teams.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: Homer on July 31, 2012, 08:10:44 AM
that is awesome guys, both of you. I'm sure P will be calling you up soon for tips!

still using that kiwo discharge emulsion?
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 31, 2012, 09:18:14 AM
for sure!  Dont know why people knock it, its the best emulsion i have used in years.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: 3Deep on July 31, 2012, 10:41:41 AM
Jasonl you guys sux!!!! I,m jealous as heck very nice print and seps...If I could all I would print is cymk all day, but I have a hard time getting my colors right at times.   You guys hit that just right, plus I,m a big fan of marvel comics.

Darryl
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 31, 2012, 12:26:37 PM
Jasonl you guys sux!!!! I,m jealous as heck very nice print and seps...If I could all I would print is cymk all day, but I have a hard time getting my colors right at times.   You guys hit that just right, plus I,m a big fan of marvel comics.

Darryl

thanks, my hat is off to Derek, or (Ravenmark) without him, I am nothing.  We have been doing this together for about 15 years.  Both of our heads together can do some special things sometimes.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: ZooCity on July 31, 2012, 01:49:04 PM
That looks so tight!  Well done you two. 

What was the spec again?  Dishcarge UB with Union Triple Strength plastisol top cmyk?  Deeetaaaailsssss..... 
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: 3Deep on July 31, 2012, 02:34:47 PM
uestion, union triple strength cymk inks I,m thinking gives you a brighter print or what, I would love to use more cymk if I can get the color dialed in more.

Darryl
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 31, 2012, 06:41:55 PM
The printed pics I posted are straight PLASTISOL.  Black shirt and white shirt.  I did 3 hours worth of testing today with the discharge base from CCI.  My opinion is it sux for this application.  I cleaned the screen and dropped in some Sericol HO White for the underbase and BAM!  It looks pretty awesome with no hand.  I am doing a wash test at this moment to get true results.  Pretty much what I already knew though, SERICOL IN HANDS DOWN THE BEST DISCHARGE SYSTEM AVAILABLE.  IMO!  AND, UNION TRIPLE STRENGTH CMYK IS THE BEST 4CP ON THE MARKET!  IMO.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 31, 2012, 06:55:48 PM
It really looks great, I cant get a good pic.  But this looks and feels AMAZING.  Sericol discharge white, with cmyk on top.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/jlansdell/heroes.jpg)
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: Screened Gear on July 31, 2012, 07:06:00 PM
good job. It looks alot like the one I did a few years back. (yours is better) The colors get a little washed out one the discharge base. Looking at your 3 picks the white is much deeper colors and the plastisol white and the discharge look almost the same. Is that true or is it just the pictures.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: ZooCity on July 31, 2012, 07:20:33 PM
The printed pics I posted are straight PLASTISOL.  Black shirt and white shirt.  I did 3 hours worth of testing today with the discharge base from CCI.  My opinion is it sux for this application.  I cleaned the screen and dropped in some Sericol HO White for the underbase and BAM!  It looks pretty awesome with no hand.  I am doing a wash test at this moment to get true results.  Pretty much what I already knew though, SERICOL IN HANDS DOWN THE BEST DISCHARGE SYSTEM AVAILABLE.  IMO!  AND, UNION TRIPLE STRENGTH CMYK IS THE BEST 4CP ON THE MARKET!  IMO.

Where you comparing CCI clear Discharge Base to Sericol HO White or is that a typo?
 
We've found Sericol to be perfect except for the HO White, discharges to a dull, 'boney' whiteish tone.  CCI's Discharge White whoops it hands down.  I thought the CCI bases were great too.  But what we were testing for is not for the application you're using it for. 
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on July 31, 2012, 07:51:57 PM
The prints with the CCI discharge base were so bad, I didnt post any of them here.  The last pic is Sericol HO base with cmyk on top.  I tried to get good pics, but my phone camera will not do it any justice.  It really looks great and not washed out at all.

I have tried cci white and clear and both FAIL for me.  The sericol white is my favorite so far. 

With that being said, I can get a pretty good representation with plain old white plastisol and cmyk.

I will definitely be doing more with the sericol white so I can make a good judgement.  I may be trying the Magna series soon with my rep at my shop.

But, for cmyk, Union Triple Strength all the way!
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: ravenmark on July 31, 2012, 07:56:30 PM
It really looks great, I cant get a good pic.  But this looks and feels AMAZING.  Sericol discharge white, with cmyk on top.


Your phone cam definitely does not do the actual print any justice. The plastisol UB made for more vibrant primary & secondary colors on our tests. On the flip side what little that was lost in their vibrancy was made up for in spades by the hand of the print with the Sericol UB.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: ZooCity on August 01, 2012, 07:28:13 PM
Crazy.  I thought the CCI White was straight baller compared to the Sericol HO.  Just a way brighter, truer white out of the CCI instead of the bone tone from the Sericol.   We've had to pull the Sericol HO a couple times now and replace with CCI White. 

I wonder what we're doing differently?  Probably substrates/dye lots.

Some better pictures would be sweet. 
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: ebscreen on August 01, 2012, 08:08:49 PM
I didn't like Sericol white either, too browny. That said, it's a lot thinner,
and probably overprints much easier than the thicker stuff.
Title: Re: discharge 4CP on black?
Post by: jasonl on August 01, 2012, 08:16:19 PM
i think it has alot to do with the substrate.  its thin, but even thinner after I added about 10 percent water.  So far its my go to.  Could be different next time, who knows.  I want to try MAGNA next.