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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Frog on August 18, 2012, 05:50:36 PM
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We've seen countless threads extolling their virtues, but has anyone used, but then quit using a dip tank?
Why?
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That's a really good question. I just ordered one just to check it out. I can clean 16 to 20 screens Autos and easily over 20 manuals an hour with a spray bottle and everyone said its faster with a dip tank.
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At 16+ screens an hour you're a beast, but you should still be able to reclaim faster. I can't imagine anyone going back to a spray bottle system.
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yeah id never go back to doing them by hand after using a dip tank.
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Guys, let's not lose the focus of my question.
I am not looking for more endorsements here, we have them up the wazoo.
I'm looking for the Marc Antony who has come to bury Caeser, not to praise him, and explain why.
You can talk them up all you want in probably at least a half dozen threads just on this forum already.
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16 an hour is not hard when you use all your chemicals full strength and work on 4 screens at a time. I can't get any faster, that's why I am going to try a dip tank. I know shops doing 25 to 30 screens an hour with a dip tank.
Back to what frog is asking. Who here has used a dip tank and hates them?
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Guys, let's not lose the focus of my question.
I am not looking for more endorsements here, we have them up the wazoo.
I'm looking for the Marc Antony who has come to bury Caeser, not to praise him, and explain why.
You can talk them up all you want in probably at least a half dozen threads just on this forum already.
Maybe that's the crux of your problem here. ;)
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::)No, I think that my problem is just that some folks merely love to post, whether it's really germane (or Tito, Marlon, or Jackie) to the particular issue or not.
Why can't we just wait see if this develops any interesting tidbits. There's a big world out there.
That's a problem with posting on Saturdays. We draw from a somewhat limited pool of members and experiences.
For that matter, there may be no one. And though that will definitely boost the idea of indispensability, you are still jumping the gun a bit.
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Frog,
To answer your question. I have talked to one guy that does not like dip tanks. He worked in one of those big shops in south CA, you know the ones. He said his guys would take longer when using a dip tank. He used to have them line up a ton of screens and have 2 or 3 guys work on them one after another. (I am sure their floor was really clean) He said they could do 60 to 100 screens an hour this way. It was a few years ago so I am not sure exactly how they did it. If you look at it in man power and how many each guy did in an hour they still only did about 20 to 30 screen per person. I know, it still didn't answer if a dip tank is better than spray. But that was one guy that preferred spray bottles over a dip tank. It may be the only guy.
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::)No, I think that my problem is just that some folks merely love to post, whether it's really germane (or Tito, Marlon, or Jackie) to the particular issue or not.
Why can't we just wait see if this develops any interesting tidbits. There's a big world out there.
That's a problem with posting on Saturdays. We draw from a somewhat limited pool of members and experiences.
For that matter, there may be no one. And though that will definitely boost the idea of indispensability, you are still jumping the gun a bit.
Or it could be that I'm just f'ing with you.
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ordered one last week, should be here this week. I clean 21 an hour with a garden sprayer. So, I will let everyone know soon.
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The NY shop I worked in used then stopped using a dip tank due to having a large inventory of older roller frames that leaked into the tubes.
Rather than toss the frames, they tossed the tank and went back to the spray system.
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::)No, I think that my problem is just that some folks merely love to post, whether it's really germane (or Tito, Marlon, or Jackie) to the particular issue or not.
Why can't we just wait see if this develops any interesting tidbits. There's a big world out there.
That's a problem with posting on Saturdays. We draw from a somewhat limited pool of members and experiences.
For that matter, there may be no one. And though that will definitely boost the idea of indispensability, you are still jumping the gun a bit.
Are you implying people have a life on Saturdays? I dont
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...I know of two shops here that have one and quit using them. One shop brough in a new manager of the old-scool variety, and I guess wasnt too open to new procedures. The second had the liquid in the tanks suddenly fail, and gave up on it.
...One thing about these tanks (and Im sure this is what happened at the second shop above, they are not the neatest or more organized bunch) is that you absolutely cannot introduce a corrodable metal into the solution at all, it will deactivate the chemical QUICK. I have seen one go bad, and we found a small metal washer that somehow fell into the bottom ofthe tank.
...Andy, if you want to hear about the "cons" of the dip-tank system, Call your rep for ICC chemicals, my rep is always trying to get me to ditch our tank. I cant say that he presented a good arguement to do so, because I do not remember why he said so. I figure he wants to sell me a continual-use chemical, rather than the small amount i use to refill the tank once every six months or so.
....I recommend the tank myself. If you are careful and even remotely clean and organized, you will be glad you made the switch.
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We'll be getting a diptank for next year, about my only concern is that they may cause more old ink/emulsion to get caked in the locking strip channels. We use Hix Retens, so leaking is not a concern.
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I remember reading an article about how a dip tank is inferior to sprays, I'll have to search for it tonight
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When I got my first tank I almost threw it out after a couple days.
The "one step wonder" claims are what drove me (and I imagine most who quit on them) to get
frustrated with the damn thing.
After realizing that anything that sounds too good to be true usually is, and yes Mabel, you do still
have to scrub ink, I would never go back to the sprays.
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the problem with sprays is usually the scrubbing and waiting. Scrubbing sucks.
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yep and then went back. much less crap goling down the drain. 30% minimum savings in chemical
. and i would say 20% faster.
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I've been buying used roller frames off & on for the last 5 years, and have grown to hate dip tanks from afar because of how badly they muck up the rollers. From what I can see, an awful lot of shops out there let 'em fill up with muck to the point where the bottom side of the frame is dipped in muck, and it fills up the mesh troughs, making it impossible to get the old mesh out, and many hours spent cleaning out the troughs enough to get new mesh in.
It seems like the time saved letting the screens soak in the dip tank is going to be spent again on the back end, when you've got to re-mesh the screens, and it takes 2 hours per frame. I train my screen people to do minimal scrubbing, and to turn around & do something else, like un-tape the next two screens, as the first two are soaking post-spraying, and we easily churn out 20 screens in an hour's time. Having a 2-wide reclaim sink helps, I suppose.
I can un-mesh/re-mesh a clean frame in about 15 minutes. I'm all about cleanliness, and dip tanks seem to be a gateway to grunge.
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I just introduced a dip tank and One Step by Franmar into my production. So far so good. I do have a concerned in regards to gunk buildup in the rollers, and locking strips. What are others doing to combat this issue? I have frames that take forever to get locking strips out when re-meshing. I assumed a dip tank will soak those areas and make it easier...
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That is a concern of mine as well... I notice that this seems to have happened to the previous owners of my rollers. I can't help but think that proper flushing as well as maybe some stand offs on the bottom to keep them from sitting so low.
The CCI has a small couple of humps to do this built in... maybe it could be bigger though.
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De-ink before you put the screens in and I put some rocks in the bottom and we don't have much if any gunk buildup. What is there can be sprayed out easily enough.
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Thanks,
Those are some good preventive measures. Are there any solutions to removing locking strips that are already gunk'd and stuck in the frames?
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Thanks,
Those are some good preventive measures. Are there any solutions to removing locking strips that are already gunk'd and stuck in the frames?
Ickie stickie unstuck from franmar was suggest to me by Dennis I believe.
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Thanks,
Those are some good preventive measures. Are there any solutions to removing locking strips that are already gunk'd and stuck in the frames?
Back in the dip tank actually. Soak 'em overnight. Water is the only universal solvent.
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I just introduced a dip tank and One Step by Franmar into my production. So far so good. I do have a concerned in regards to gunk buildup in the rollers, and locking strips. What are others doing to combat this issue? I have frames that take forever to get locking strips out when re-meshing. I assumed a dip tank will soak those areas and make it easier...
Zero issues with this. We:
- Use yellow newman tape over all channels.
- Rinse thoroughly and completely after each chem, giving some pressure washer love to the crevices where the mesh meets the roller.
- Avoid letting our emulsion slough off into the dip tank.
- Wipe the ink from screens before going to reclaim.
- Use a standalone ink degrader, Green Again from Franmar and rinse before dunking in One Step
Our frames look great and never an issue with gunk in the channels. I've seen this on used roller though and I think it's a product of moving too quickly on reclaim and letting the the emulsion melt off into the tank.
Ickee Stickee is the roller frame cleaner of choice for me when they get the tape residue on them.
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I have to wonder why use a diptank if you are brushing on ink degrader and rinsing before using the diptank. All you are saving is the time it takes to brush on emulsion remover, which is only 20-30 seconds tops.
It may make me rethink getting one if we're not removing ink and emulsion in one step.
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I have to wonder why use a diptank if you are brushing on ink degrader and rinsing before using the diptank. All you are saving is the time it takes to brush on emulsion remover, which is only 20-30 seconds tops.
It may make me rethink getting one if we're not removing ink and emulsion in one step.
Not sure of the issues others are having; but we're removing ink, and emulsion in one step with no problem.. It's much better than spraying and scrubbing.. We won't be getting rid of our tank any time soon... :)
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Some folks just are not enamored with the combo chemical. Not long lived.
Another angle is two tanks. One for ink degradent, and one for emulsion remover.
Still two steps, but minimal scrubbing if any at all.
But once again, I am looking for the cons here, not the pros.
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Dip tanks will kill your first born and make your feet smell. How's that for a con?
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Dip tanks also hate America....they hate our freedom.
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Dip tanks approve mockups without looking at them and then expect you to cover their mistake.
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I have to wonder why use a diptank if you are brushing on ink degrader and rinsing before using the diptank. All you are saving is the time it takes to brush on emulsion remover, which is only 20-30 seconds tops.
It may make me rethink getting one if we're not removing ink and emulsion in one step.
Not sure of the issues others are having; but we're removing ink, and emulsion in one step with no problem.. It's much better than spraying and scrubbing.. We won't be getting rid of our tank any time soon... :)
Dual chemical or just emulsion remover in your tank?
(Sorry Frog for the derail, split my question out if you want)