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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: jason-23 on August 29, 2012, 04:42:34 PM
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started a line of shirts to sell what brand of garment would you use or did you use? Im thinking of starting a brand and i really like AA shirts but they come with such a sexual company that may reflect negatively on my brand. Any thoughts?
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If I did it I would get something with a tear away label or remove the label and screen print the brand and all the info in the neck hence making it "your" brand.
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That AA does have that rep, but Alternative Apparel might do the job for you. Also, there seems to be a new kid in town, blanksplus.net. Just got there catalog.
Steve
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I'd say that it all depended on your target market and your designs.
"Trendy" stuff aimed at party girls and girly boys fits the AA or it's many imitators. (everyone now seems to have thin men's shirts cut too small.)
Hip-hoppers and gang-bangers like the Allstyle, and I still find that the old-schoolers find Beefys a known, easy-to-market name.
If you are going to re-label, you don't want any "tagless" like the Hanes.
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My buddy started a clothing line with some designer friends of his... they share space in his print shop and they do VERY well.
It's all Lafayette, LA culture type of stuff, like "plate lunches" and the louisiana flag, accordions and such as imagery.
Anyway, point is that they use AA for their stuff... and they aren't looking to sell on "sexy" by any means.
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I don't like AA, what they stand for, the guy behind the company or basically anything about them so I wouldn't be using them for my stuff. There are a lot of really good tees out there to choose from that look and feel as good as an AA without lining the pockets of a company that doesn't share the same principles and ideals as me so I'd go another direction.
I guess maybe I shouldn't be so hard on them since the guy has never been convicted of anything, but there sure seems to be alot of "smoke" around him. You don't see any other owners of t-shirt brands being accused of some of the things this guy has been, but maybe he's just an easy target and very misunderstood. This scenario sounds eerily similar to one we have experienced in our little industry the last few years doesn't it? Don't answer that, thread derail would quickly ensue...
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Jason, we just started a brand and we are working with Keya Tees. They are ringspun, super soft, have tearaway labels, and the pricing is right in line with Gildan pricing. They are limited on color selection, but we really like them so far.
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AA sounds like American Apparel. ??? Are you guys talking about American Apparel when you say AA?
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AA sounds like American Apparel. ??? Are you guys talking about American Apparel when you say AA?
I meant American apparel I don't know about anyone else...
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Jason, we just started a brand and we are working with Keya Tees. They are ringspun, super soft, have tearaway labels, and the pricing is right in line with Gildan pricing. They are limited on color selection, but we really like them so far.
Do they have a minimum and can I get samples?
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AA sounds like American Apparel. ??? Are you guys talking about American Apparel when you say AA?
Yes, I meant AA to be American Apparel, which is why I spelled out Alternative Apparel...
Steve
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Not waving the AA flag here but correct me if I am wrong (I probably am) they do create a lot of jobs here in the States, promote sexual equality, provide fair pay and benefits. Not sure for all of their employees (probably not the retail store ones). And they make actually make the garments in the States. And you can take a free tour of their facilities. Give them a call to set up a date the next time you are in LA. For the sex in advertising remember Kate Moss and Guess jeans? Didn't hurt her career or Guess Jeans by a mile. I bet someone on here has some in their closet or kids closet. I have never met the owner so I can't say anything about him. We are a small shop but print easily anywhere over 10,000 AA blanks a month if not two or three times that some months. And we use Gildan, Hanes, AAA, FOL, Anvil, Ports, Alternative, and a zillion others and except for Gildan they are one of the few we can count on for quality and print consistency with discharge inks. I like Canvas but damn, run a discharge job and you get all sorts of different results on every size. We can't discharge them anymore because of the wild difference between sizes. Oh well. Getting off topic but I don't think AA is any worse than any of the other companies out there. I like them better than Next Level, that's for sure!
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Sorry for the above rambling. Delta and I believe LAT also offer tear away tags. Cheap and ringspun.
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Stopped using American apparel about 4-5 years ago - liked the shirt, but don't want to support a company that has porn on their website - pitiful. I'd write more but I'm on the iPhone.
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American Apparel is the only shirt for a fashion clothing line. The rest all have down falls and people that know will expose you for trying to save some money on a cheaper item. I print a few clothing lines and they are all on AA. Not as many problems with them compared to the knock offs. (I said not as many problems).
My advice to you is buy a few and test them before and after washes. Alot of the knockoffs are fine until after you wash them. I have had some shrink up 4 inches in length. Some where only one arm shrunk. I also had one twist so bad that the side seams were in front. Buy two of each shirt and compare them before and after washing one. You will be amazed.
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I've found Sun Apparel to be of better quality in terms of construction. And they lack Dov, which is a plus.
Didn't they get spanked for unfair employment practices recently?
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Speaking of... I was checking out that new site blanksplus.net and advertising their built in bra tank was a chick wearing a thong... not really sure why she needed to be in a thong with her ass cheeks hanging out but there she was.
Oh, and another +1 for Keya... nice stuff, cheap prices! Not made in the usa of course. :(
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I can't say I do a lot of AA stuff, but on an order last year of around 200 or so I printed had two shirts with mill defects.
IMHO pretty crappy at 8 bucks cost--but after them having to overnight two shirts, their pricing makes a little more sense... ::)
Just did a bit of and order of US made Bella and Canvas for the LBS, very nice shirts. (and pretty reasonably priced, as well) Not doing discharge, however.
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I think I agree on almost all the statements about AA both good/bad actually.
All of those other issues aside they are, hands-down, the worst supplier we have ever worked with. I've never worked with any organization that so truly, deeply does not care about their product, about you or the business you give them, whether it's the 50-80k we spend with them yearly or you were Threadless and giving them god knows how much per year. To qualify that a little, the issue stems from their corporate culture, not their workers, general business model or product. If they had any serious U.S. competition we would jump ship in a heart beat though.
Our line is primarily AA because:
- It is U.S.-made, a requirement for our retail line, and features a fairly broad selection.
- They are relatively close to us.
- Their clothing, the unisex especially, is well cut to fit a broad span of people.
If you go AA get used to doing your own QC, theirs is basically non-existent, having a reject rate that is astronomically higher than any other brand you buy and having to talk to a bunch of mostly aggro d!ckheads from L.A. to get the problems corrected.
I would not worry about the sexuality connotations with AA. Anyone who's going to be seriously put off by it probably isn't even aware of them anyway and your brand doesn't have to make prolific use of see-thru nipple shots in all it's ad copy. You don't need to advertise to you use AA, we don't, we advertise that we are U.S.-made but you'll find less people are willing to put their money where there mouth is on that than you might think. If it comes up with clientele, just tell them how you feel about AA, I always do.
Quick side note: I'd rather kick cash to a company whose upper mgmt is a bunch of literal jerk-offs than one whose same staff is so directly living off the backs of 'third-world' people around the world and taking far more of their far share for the work 'opportunity' they provide. When you put it in perspective, being over-sexed doesn't seem like such a big deal. I do understand how that is to some though. Onwards...
Tear aways or, better a side seam label with FTC required info on it (why is no one doing this?) would def be nice from them but we private label and leave their tag in. A lot of shoppers know immediately what size they are in one of these garments and are familiar with the quality. Their name and tag style is so generic as not to distract too heavily from your brand. We could pull ours if we wanted but I see no reason to yet.
Alternative is way to expensive for good retail price points in my opinion and they cannot specify or guarantee an order will be completely of U.S. origin so we use nothing from them.
If overseas made is not an issue go with some Anvil 980s, pop the tags out and get to hustlin'. Keyas we checked out were decent too. I find that every year or so, one of the combed ring spun cotton Ts is being made better than the others but they all have such a similar fit and feel that it's no biggie switching around really.
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I've found Sun Apparel to be of better quality in terms of construction. And they lack Dov, which is a plus.
Didn't they get spanked for unfair employment practices recently?
Awesome. Been wanting to hear that. We have been contacted by them and received some samples. I liked them a lot. Going to start throwing them into the mix when we can. Haven't done my research - are they USA made?
Unfair practices - wouldn't be surprised. That sucks. One of the big shot cook guys (Tom Douglas or Mario B. or one of them) owns several eating establishments here in Seattle and got busted stealing over a million in tips from their waitstaff in like three years. Lame!
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I've found Sun Apparel to be of better quality in terms of construction. And they lack Dov, which is a plus.
Didn't they get spanked for unfair employment practices recently?
Awesome. Been wanting to hear that. We have been contacted by them and received some samples. I liked them a lot. Going to start throwing them into the mix when we can. Haven't done my research - are they USA made?
Unfair practices - wouldn't be surprised. That sucks. One of the big shot cook guys (Tom Douglas or Mario B. or one of them) owns several eating establishments here in Seattle and got busted stealing over a million in tips from their waitstaff in like three years. Lame!
Sun apparel is great. I get all my AA stuff from them. Cheaper than AA when you have to buy singles or dozens plus singles. I get them next day here. Sun Apparel has their own line. Sun Girl and Sun international. I tested them back about 2 years ago. The girls shirts were really good. Sized nice (not on me) and had alot of cuts all fro the same price. I also liked they had thicker than 4.3 once girls fits. The guys shirts were not as impressive. Compared to AA they were sloppy and shrunk inconsistently. Remember this was a couple of years ago. I think the fabric is made in the US and they are assembled in Mexico.
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This is directed at the last two post.
1st- Porn on their website? Really? Underwear is not porn. If it were then Sears and JC Penny are screwed. Do you like your women in a Burqa?
2nd- Jon, AA is not the only shirt for fashion. We hardy print on AA that much anymore. There are so many other players in their game that go to retail its not even worth looking in AA's direction. We blow through a ton of Next Level, Pima, Spectra, and a few others.
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I'd love to respond at length but I'm on an iPhone. I think your understanding of porn is juvenile, for to even draw the conclusion that only the lack of clothing constitutes porn, which is required, given the jcpenney comparison, is simply telling, but nonetheless pretty prevalent. More than just what you can visibly see -- while although necessary, is isn't sufficient grounds to make something porn -- is the interior act of the will on what you are trying to elicit from viewers. So, for example, far more nudity is shown in the last judgment in the Sistine chapel than american apparel's web pages combined but the two are at opposite spectrums as far as what response they are trying to evoke from the viewer. Ironically, porn always tends to reveal to little about the person -ie, just the body for someone else's pleasure (whether mental or physical)-- all the while thinking it's scandalous because it shows too much - but this is wrong - it shows to little, reducing people to just their body. Sorry, wish I could get into it more but I hate typing on this phone. And no, I like my wife in scandalous clothes - but that's for my eyes - just like what those women are wearing, or lack thereof at aa, is for their husbands' eyes, not yours or mine. Sorry I can't make my case clearer - tired of hitting the backspace on this phone bc of typographical errors.
I'd also like to comment on the whole sweatshop comparison but for the same reasons, cant get into it here either. Hope you guys are dry wherever you are.
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Jason, Keya is the way to go for regular tees. I like Next Level (Bodek) for the trendy stuff (No discharge please).
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I've been using AA since forevers and still use them for our highend options for customers on my own clothing lines. I've tried other brands and didn't like how they fit and how they wash. The rad thing about them (AA) is their styles, they got a lot. And they usually have good stock which other brands lacked. I remember some other brand not having black mediums, sheesh! Cut the tags and print your own.
I'm not a fan of the soft porn. To each his own.
Doesn't everyone here have case pricing with them?
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2nd- Jon, AA is not the only shirt for fashion. We hardy print on AA that much anymore. There are so many other players in their game that go to retail its not even worth looking in AA's direction. We blow through a ton of Next Level, Pima, Spectra, and a few others.
Jason,
I mean no disrespect but who the hell are you to question my extensive knowledge and greatness. You are a no body in the field of printing high-end fashion. I know all and just questioning my knowledge shows your lack of.
OK back to being serious, I have not seen one fashion shirt ( I have bought and tested alot) that is as consistent and well liked by all like the AA 2001. I am wearing one right now as I type this. I am sure there are better shirts out there (in everyone opinion) but AA has a rep and people ask for it by name.
Jason I have not heard of Pima or Spectra where are they distributed from? Can you give me more info?
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I'm not a fan of the soft porn. To each his own.
I think if you read Peter Kreeft's A Refutation of Moral Relativism, that "to each his own" nonsense would cease :). Anyone want to do a group book reading to give that theory of morality the kick in the a$$ it deserves?
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For really cool trendy$$ try Eternal Apparel or google Wishbone. If anyone would like a sneak peek at his new stuff p-mail mail me. Again this is pricey but fits a niche.
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I sent a customer to their site and there was exposed nipple. that's fine except he's works for a religious school.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-best-of-american-apparel-ads-nsfw (http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-best-of-american-apparel-ads-nsfw)
I would consider that soft porn. It's about what you get in Playboy.
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Ok Brad, after seeing some of that, I'll agree, that's got some porn in it. I wasn't against porn per say, or at all in proper context :), but in ads for an American T-shirt and apparel manufacturer? Little too much for me. If I want to see porn, or anyone for that matter, they have the right to go where the porn is, having the porn brought to us without asking for it is where I draw the line. I was against the sexual nature of the accusations against the guy, not really their ad campaign, but I see how it is offensive and crosses the line in my opinion.
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that is the problem I have with them, I love their shirts, and their made in the USA mentality, except a lot of the labor was illegal. The problem was Dov. They only ever made the news for the really stupid and offensive things they did.
I just wish Dov would have been forced out, I think he will be the downfall of the company.
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The last 3 times I ordered from AA, I had to get replacements for 2-3 shirts from
each order because of bad stitching, holes etc. I will only use them if the customer
insists and I if have plenty of time to wait for replacements to arrive.
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I did not see the nip slip so I stand corrected. That is a little to far for most. However their advertising is made to make you talk about it. I am sure that most stuff like this is to racy for the bible belt but it does what they want it to do. It causes a stir. If it offends the prim and proper it just gets them more attention in that market. You guys would be surprised at how many churches out here ask for AA or AA style stuff. They want to try and be up to date fashion wise just like everyone else.
I try not to use them because of their labor practices over what is in their catalog. As a company they are a POS. The stories I hear from our contract customers is pretty crazy. Their shipping cost is absolutely insane some times. I have a customer that drives down an hour and a half just to get his goods because they tried to hit him for 80.00 in shipping and handling on 1 case of shirts.
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So seeing all the nakedness one could see why i wouldnt want to make AA my shirt line garment. Also my line is going to be geared in the christian faith and a bunch of nipples flying around is in bad judgement on me if I used them. That being said, is there an American brand garment out there? Im looking for a trendy type shirt, light weight but able to hold plastisol up and be able to print discharge and water based. Like right now im wearing a shirt from Sams club and it feels great, light, water base tight on the arms semi loose in the torso, and a little long, and the washablity is great. I know its not made in american but why not, why can we produce a shirt garment in the states. Another question, is there a way to find out what some brands are using for the their garment choice or do the all use custom manufacturers in mexico or china?
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Why not?
NAFTA, plain and simple. All down hill from there.
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alternative has some pretty good stuff. they are american made as well
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Early on, about oh, 6-8 years ago, while working for my former employer and researching new products, I was at the American Apparel website and noticed those types of pictures. What was more astonishing and shocking to me, was the fact that they were also posing young girls between the ages of 6 and 14 that same way as well. I was "so shocked" that I then emailed the owner directly.
Once doing so and I asked, "what are you really trying to sell us? What are you trying to get me to look at?"pointing out that he is using children in seductive poses...and asked why he is allowing this, he replied nothing about it and came back with "well, (the company I worked for at the time) uses child labor in 3rd world countries"
Really? Thats what your going to tell me? Thats your answer to why you use children in sexual poses ?
The next time I reluctantly visited that website again, I did not see these same types of poses (on the kids).
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I beg to differ, Alternative is not manufactured domestically.
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really? they used to be, their prices certainly would make one think they are made here
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I used to run their print division............... Honduras and Guatemala back then
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I used to run their print division............... Honduras and Guatemala back then
We have run into dye lot issues when getting the same color from the two different factories. Plus they like to short ship without notification.
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Early on, about oh, 6-8 years ago, while working for my former employer and researching new products, I was at the American Apparel website and noticed those types of pictures. What was more astonishing and shocking to me, was the fact that they were also posing young girls between the ages of 6 and 14 that same way as well. I was "so shocked" that I then emailed the owner directly.
Once doing so and I asked, "what are you really trying to sell us? What are you trying to get me to look at?"pointing out that he is using children in seductive poses...and asked why he is allowing this, he replied nothing about it and came back with "well, (the company I worked for at the time) uses child labor in 3rd world countries"
Really? Thats what your going to tell me? Thats your answer to why you use children in sexual poses ?
The next time I reluctantly visited that website again, I did not see these same types of poses (on the kids).
This from a guy working for a company that to this day won't let Donald wear any pants!
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In regards to Alternative apparel -- its the worst---absolutely no consistency in size, cut, die... I have had nothing but bad experiences with them
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To my knowledge none of the Alternative merch was ever or currently made in USA. And yes the print division ran into constant issues from different countries of origin.
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Early on, about oh, 6-8 years ago, while working for my former employer and researching new products, I was at the American Apparel website and noticed those types of pictures. What was more astonishing and shocking to me, was the fact that they were also posing young girls between the ages of 6 and 14 that same way as well. I was "so shocked" that I then emailed the owner directly.
Once doing so and I asked, "what are you really trying to sell us? What are you trying to get me to look at?"pointing out that he is using children in seductive poses...and asked why he is allowing this, he replied nothing about it and came back with "well, (the company I worked for at the time) uses child labor in 3rd world countries"
Really? Thats what your going to tell me? Thats your answer to why you use children in sexual poses ?
The next time I reluctantly visited that website again, I did not see these same types of poses (on the kids).
This from a guy working for a company that to this day won't let Donald wear any pants!
And what exactly is Goofy? he's not a dog because pluto is a dog on all fours and he's not a cow because clarabell is a cow...so what is Goofy??? :o
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Dog-gone-man-dog.....man.
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Dog-gone-man-dog.....man.
really a man-dog, i thought it was disneys idea of a brother of another color...:)
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Probably was, we all know Walt was a nazi. ;)
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If I were you and doing my own line I would not be selling it with AA tags on it. Your garment brand should be individual and not ride the coat tails if you will of a blank manufacturer. From your description of what you want it to be I would steer clear from them.
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We basically have retail lines of stuff and I think this really depends on your market. Our customers are automotive customizers, 99% of the time they want a Gildan because it comes up to 5XL and talls on xl/2xl/3xl on some colors. So they want that. Not a lot of brands offer both of those. In other words I sell to people like myself, fat/overweight. LOL