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screen printing => Tips and Tricks to Share (Please don't ask questions here) => Topic started by: tonypep on August 31, 2012, 09:00:12 AM

Title: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: tonypep on August 31, 2012, 09:00:12 AM
Did some testing this week and one glue application has lasted five straight days of hard production. I can't tell you how many times I'll walk into a shop and find a gallon of it under the dryer. "That stuff doesn't work we tried it." is the typical response. So here's a few tips on application and maintaining good adhesion:
Use a mustard squeeze bottle and screen scrubby to apply on fresh pallet paper. Apply liberally, using a circular motion. A second application after the first one is dry will extend the life of the glue.
Once a day we spritz the platens with water and scrub with a stiff bristle brush (like the ones for brooms).
Do this even though the still be sticky and rather clean! This procedure extracts the shirt lint and re-activates the glue. Be sure to lay down a flattened out cardboard box on the floor to save you from having to clean the gunk up. On a 14 color it should take two people ten minutes to clean and re-activate16 pallets
If you regularly keep this up the boards will remain smooth enough to allow for yet another top coat of fresh glue and you're good for another week. Honestly please try this if you haven't already. The benefits are amazing.
Lastly if you find this as effective as I have you'll need to round up all the spray cans and secure them. If you spray mist adhesive over a water based adhesive it will work for a while but then you will need to resort to having to change paper. Currently we only need to change paper every few weeks or so.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Denis Kolar on August 31, 2012, 09:13:00 AM
Luckily, I net Pierre before I bought my first batch of supplies. He suggested to go with pallet adhesive.
I have been using Palet Adhesive since the Day one and I do not have any issues with it.
I have few cans of spray laying around for occasional fleece job, but I'm using exclusively waterbased pallet adhesive.

Instead off bristle brush, I use rough side of Scotch pads (For dish washing)
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Gilligan on August 31, 2012, 09:42:06 AM
Same here Dennis.

But I think I'm gonna forgo cleaning them off... just add more, it's cheap enough!
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Frog on August 31, 2012, 09:55:06 AM
Same here Dennis.

But I think I'm gonna forgo cleaning them off... just add more, it's cheap enough!

By "cleaning them", do you mean removing the lint or the glue itself? Re-applying glue over the lint can raise its own problems. The new glue can soften the old, and your lint can move with your application, leaving an uneven surface.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: tonypep on August 31, 2012, 09:56:05 AM
Regluing without cleaning will result in those shirt bugs turning into tiny hard pellets that can show up in your print.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Nick Bane on August 31, 2012, 10:00:20 AM
yep, no adding fresh glue til you scrub the old lint off first or youll find yourself changing paper real quick.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Homer on August 31, 2012, 10:02:20 AM
we do exact as TP mentioned, we also have 4 layers of R Tape on our platens, each labeled with a number so we know when it's time to retape. about once a month we peel a layer off. In the winter we go through a bit more due to printing fleece. We have a gallon of wb adhesive from 2 years ago and it's about 50 % full. time savings is huge, we use a 3m green scrub to clean off the lint, works great.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Gilligan on August 31, 2012, 10:05:07 AM
Well, we pick off any nasty pieces of lint.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Denis Kolar on August 31, 2012, 10:07:19 AM
Here we go again
DSCF7847 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1mMFmDvOPw#)

Thank to Mooseman we can post this now :)
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: tonypep on August 31, 2012, 10:12:22 AM
Thats it guys! Great video. Thats exactly how I have them do it. Quick and easy........Gil!
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: ericheartsu on August 31, 2012, 10:13:56 AM
what is this mean green spray? where can i get it?
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: tonypep on August 31, 2012, 10:27:19 AM
Supermarket or Home Depot
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Printhouse on August 31, 2012, 10:42:50 AM
Great timing on this post!  I am one of those that has the gallon of wb tack on the shelf and still primarily use the spray.  I just retaped pallets this morning.  I think its time to make the switch!
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Denis Kolar on August 31, 2012, 10:51:25 AM
Mean Green is great. Run them under the flash for a few seconds after you clean the pallets, you'll be good to go.
I use that instead of water
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Parker 1 on August 31, 2012, 10:56:22 AM
We have been doing the same for years. 
With a couple of exceptions: 
I use an adhesive cleaner and water mixed (1 part cleaner to 10 parts water).  Also use a red scrub pad instead of brush.
I am having to clean the pallets every 600 to 700 pcs.   
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Frog on August 31, 2012, 11:02:15 AM
I often use 50/50 Windex/water.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: dave58 on August 31, 2012, 11:04:56 AM
Direct to platen?....or over tape....or does both ways work?
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Mr Tees!! on August 31, 2012, 11:10:16 AM
...1 qt of Windex (or comparable) to 5 gal water, the Windex speeds the evaporation. I actually dry cycle my press at a very slow dwell as I am doing this, I can do all eight boards in about three minutes. I once went nearly nine month without changing my pallet tape, and only then because the glue became so thick and aggresive it started peeling off the pallet. I do not recommend waiting that logn, however...pallet tape gets REAL hard to remove if you wait too long.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Frog on August 31, 2012, 11:23:43 AM
Direct to platen?....or over tape....or does both ways work?

Always on paper/tape

Even with the funky sprays, once you use pallet tape, you'll find the clean-up quicker and neater. Really makes a difference when running fleece.

Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: dave58 on August 31, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
I have been using the paper....and spray tac....i like keeping the platens clean with the paper....I'm gonna give the Tekbond a try....I am sure my lungs will like it better.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Gilligan on August 31, 2012, 11:58:28 AM
Here we go again
DSCF7847 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1mMFmDvOPw#[/url])

Thank to Mooseman we can post this now :)
Thats it guys! Great video. Thats exactly how I have them do it. Quick and easy........Gil!



I'm TOTALLY sold!!

Doing it with water and a Scotch pad was just torturous!  Hence my thinking of F' it I'll just add more, faster to retape every now and then to clean all the time. ;)

This though is amazing!
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: jasonl on August 31, 2012, 03:13:16 PM
Apply waterbase adhesive with a roller, nothing is easier.  Right over the top of the old adhesive and lent, no cleaning.  I apply once every day or 3.  Zero problems, then I change the tape about once a month.  Been doing it this way for over a decade and I have tried EVERYTHING, this is easiest.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: ZooCity on August 31, 2012, 03:39:42 PM
We do just like Tony said but printing thin ring spun styles primarily necessitates more tape changes.  Two tips to add:


Sadly, I've had zero luck layering the tape.  The water in the adhesive wrinkles and puckers the layers.  We use TexTac, unmodified. 

WB adhesive is a must do.  So many advantages to it. 
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: ebscreen on August 31, 2012, 03:54:10 PM
Almost without fail a fleece job will sneak up immediately after changing tape.

Still swearing by the cheap HVLP gun for fast even application.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: mooseman on September 01, 2012, 07:10:23 AM


[/quote] Sadly, I've had zero luck layering the tape.  The water in the adhesive wrinkles and puckers the layers.  We use TexTac, unmodified. 

WB adhesive is a must do.  So many advantages to it.
[/quote]

If you put a light coating of water based (again about 50/50 cut) on the first layer and let it dry befor adding second or even 3rd layer of paper the wrinkling is much reduced.
mooseman
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: ole jobe on September 01, 2012, 07:44:37 PM
I discovered the WB adhesive years ago. No Paper or Tape. Directly on the platen. Clean with Mean Green about once a week, Clean and re-apply about once a month. I've been using the present gallon about three years, still well over half ful.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: ZooCity on September 01, 2012, 07:54:35 PM


Sadly, I've had zero luck layering the tape.  The water in the adhesive wrinkles and puckers the layers.  We use TexTac, unmodified. 

WB adhesive is a must do.  So many advantages to it.
[/quote]

If you put a light coating of water based (again about 50/50 cut) on the first layer and let it dry befor adding second or even 3rd layer of paper the wrinkling is much reduced.
mooseman
[/quote]

So that's:  Tape down - Tack the top and let dry - Next layer of Tape ? 

I'll try it but I have a feeling it will peel the whole shebang off when it's time to change. 

FWIW, I bought some "Newman Pallet Tape" from Ryonet awhile ago to see if it was any different.  It's just another varietal of R-tape as that's the logo printed inside the roll tube but it applies and pulls off much cleaner and easier than the others we've used in the past.  Cost is similar to everything else.  This platen tape makes the changeover less of an issue but I do agree that it would be the bees knees to stack up 5 layers every week or two and just peel them off and go. 
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Im-Magic on September 01, 2012, 10:04:40 PM
I was selling a carosel the other day and the printer looking at it had never used WB Glue. He tore the shirt in half taking it off and that pallett had not been done for more than a month.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: mooseman on September 02, 2012, 10:47:16 AM


Sadly, I've had zero luck layering the tape.  The water in the adhesive wrinkles and puckers the layers.  We use TexTac, unmodified. 

WB adhesive is a must do.  So many advantages to it.


If you put a light coating of water based (again about 50/50 cut) on the first layer and let it dry befor adding second or even 3rd layer of paper the wrinkling is much reduced.
mooseman
[/quote]

So that's:  Tape down - Tack the top and let dry - Next layer of Tape ? 

I'll try it but I have a feeling it will peel the whole shebang off when it's time to change. 

FWIW, I bought some "Newman Pallet Tape" from Ryonet awhile ago to see if it was any different.  It's just another varietal of R-tape as that's the logo printed inside the roll tube but it applies and pulls off much cleaner and easier than the others we've used in the past.  Cost is similar to everything else.  This platen tape makes the changeover less of an issue but I do agree that it would be the bees knees to stack up 5 layers every week or two and just peel them off and go.
[/quote]


I can share what we do, again it is not wrinkle free but greately wrinkle reduced.

start with areal clean pallet.

coat it with waterbased adhesive....dry completely

use a teflon sheet to cover all of the pallet except about 1/2 inch strip along one side (parchment paper works real well also but is harder to manage)

lay the first layer of tape over the teflon and stick it down evenly to the 1/2 inch of exposed pallet.
We set it down with the brush folks use to apply wall paper, it is a wide stiff bresh that chases the paper down quite well.

pull the teflon sheet back about 2 inches and stick down the next section of paper to the palet.
stick down only 1 1/2 to 2 inches of tape per section until you have the tape 100% down.

hit it hard down with the brush to insure good contact, we sometimes us the little plastic squeegees that auto body guys use to apply bondo or just turn the wall paper brush upside down and use the handle as a squeegee.

we take a sharpie and mark the tape so we know we have a base layer.
coat that base tape with with a stronger concentration of waterbased maybe about 70 % adhesive  / 30%  water.

Dry it completely

add the second layer of tape with the same teflon sheet method detailed for the base layer

We mark it 1st layer, then add the adhesive  lightly to that layer. It will not be very tacky because of the light coat, you can try higher concentration of adhesive.

LET IT DRY COMPLETELY, recoat with more adhesive, it is important to get that paper layer basically shirt ready so the next layer will want to stick to it. You may need to chase some wrinkles out or use a pin to perferate air pockets and hit it down  with the brush handle.

We have tried a 3rd layer and it works but it doesn't hold up too long as each successive layer brings more wrinkles and just doesn't have the staying power.

We have thought about using Borden spray craft bond (you know the Elmer's glue people)
http://www.k12schoolsupplies.net/Elmers-Craft-Bond-Multi-Purpose-Spray-Adhesive-4-O-p/elme421.htm (http://www.k12schoolsupplies.net/Elmers-Craft-Bond-Multi-Purpose-Spray-Adhesive-4-O-p/elme421.htm)
added to the ADHESIVE SIDE of the 1st  tape layer to improve the bond to the base tape layer but we have not got that tested out at this point.
Possible someone will try that and report back.

Anyway I hope this helps. It takes time but we find the tape lasts  very very long time using the Mean Green and brush renewal method conered previously to chase lint from the pallet.

mooseman
Title: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Get Shirts on September 02, 2012, 10:58:41 AM
Does it really save that much time layering the tape?  The changeout process should take less than 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Gilligan on September 02, 2012, 11:02:00 AM
I bought a gallon of Mean Green yesterday!
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: mooseman on September 02, 2012, 11:10:51 AM
Does it really save that much time layering the tape?  The changeout process should take less than 10 minutes.

We don't seem to pay too much attention to time, we get so many distractions and being a one guy does it all operation, way past the legal anything age and  throw in some ADHD,lack of sleep, daydreaming and the scenery on a busy street..... sharpening a pencil may take a day or so.
YA GOTTA do WHAT DO IT FOR YOU :P when you are playing all roles




mooseman
Title: Re: Waterbased pallet adhesive.
Post by: Gilligan on September 02, 2012, 11:38:25 AM
Kind of like the two guys chopping wood... one guy works hard non stop the other guy seems to be taking "breaks" all the time.

In the end the guy that took "breaks" has more wood.

When questioned he replies "I wasn't taking breaks, I was sharpening my axe!"


Sometimes you have to take the time to "sharpen your axe".