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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: cleveprint on September 04, 2012, 02:08:52 PM
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quick question for people who have used a smoothing screen before. (not sure if this should be its own topic). i had a job, white on black, decent coverage area this morning. after reading this post, i figured i would give it a shot with a blank screen in there. i put a piece of teflon on the back and all. my issue was that after coming off the flash, i was getting pick up onto the piece of teflon. so much that it was starting to smear after a few shirts. i tried a longer flash and a shorter flash. any tips??
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quick question for people who have used a smoothing screen before. (not sure if this should be its own topic). i had a job, white on black, decent coverage area this morning. after reading this post, i figured i would give it a shot with a blank screen in there. i put a piece of teflon on the back and all. my issue was that after coming off the flash, i was getting pick up onto the piece of teflon. so much that it was starting to smear after a few shirts. i tried a longer flash and a shorter flash. any tips??
It could be alot of things. If the ink is still wet or tacky enough to pick up then its not flashed enough. Did you modify the white at all? If you reduced (curable reducer) the ink it will make the ink take longer to flash and have more after flash tack then normal. I am guess this is what is going on. Its flashed but has too much tack from the reducer you added. (it could be a ton of other issues, like too hot, to much pressure on the smoothing squeegee. Some times even the buildup is from the beginning of the run when you flashed it not enough and now its causing problems (clean the smoothing screen.) I am no expert but I think in the last year I have done just about everything wrong at least once.
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I did it on a manual once with a solid screen of exposed emulsion and some silicone spray. I can't recall why it was needed exactly but no pickup or snapping with an immediate hit after flash.
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I have recently heard from many knowledgeable industry experts on the subject of smoothing. From everything I gather, this process has been a well kept secret that only the veterans of the largest shops have known and utilized. I myself have never heard of this until very recently. When we started talking about our roller squeegees, we had in mind that there were several possible applications.
It now appears that the smoothing utility is the most immediately beneficial application. In association with a piece of Teflon on the contact side of the screen, the smoothing benefit is very obvious in the quality of the final print. The Teflon acts as a smoothing enhancer while being a non-stick surface to the recently flashed ink.
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How about inter changeable rollers each with a texture like mesh or distress, use it directly after the flash directly on the print, I can imagine a pretty neat FX with that.
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Years back, when I first intermet Diane from Color your World (and of course, the old TSPMB) for some reason, our talk went quickly to textured vinyl heat seal.
There are some texturing sheets available for this purpose, and the upholstery repair business uses them as well. (When she couldn't get what she wanted, she appreciated my alternative suggestion)
I don't know if they would want to stick to flashed plastisol, but if not, they could take the place of the teflon sheet on the bottom of the screen.
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Calls are coming from around the country from people that are using their new roller squeegees. Everyone is happy with the results they are achieving with these.
We have a shop testing the use of the roller squeegee for zipper hoodie printing next week. We will have results of the test to discuss soon. Thank you again to everyone who has kept this project exciting for us.
Next Week - Digital Magic Workshop at SPSI in Minneapolis. A Kornit digital machine is being interfaced with a Workhorse Falcon Screen Printing machine. I'll be there with our newest products and hope to see you there.
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If I wanted to test using a smoothing screen, could I just put a fully exposed screen (no image) with a little curable reducer for lubrication in the print head, with this do the trick to get a feel for the results/benefit of a smoothing station?
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Yes - that is exactly the way people have been doing it. The difference is the use of the Teflon and the roller give you much better results.
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Action (Eric?)
How much pressure are they using with the roller? Are they using one roller or two like in the video?
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Yes - that is exactly the way people have been doing it. The difference is the use of the Teflon and the roller give you much better results.
Thanks for the reply Eric! I'm going to give it a try and see how it works. If it works good I'll put an order in!
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Action (Eric?)
How much pressure are they using with the roller? Are they using one roller or two like in the video?
I am not certain of the pressure. I would suggest that no more pressure than typically used on the squeegee. The video shows only one. However - you have made me think that if one is good - why not two? It seems at first thought that one of these could be attached to the squeegee bar and one to the flood bar- bar. Then you could roll both ways.
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Action (Eric?)
How much pressure are they using with the roller? Are they using one roller or two like in the video?
I am not certain of the pressure. I would suggest that no more pressure than typically used on the squeegee. The video shows only one. However - you have made me think that if one is good - why not two? It seems at first thought that one of these could be attached to the squeegee bar and one to the flood bar- bar. Then you could roll both ways.
I am sure the thought of selling 2 to each of us makes you excited but why not just double stroke roll it?
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Action (Eric?)
How much pressure are they using with the roller? Are they using one roller or two like in the video?
I am not certain of the pressure. I would suggest that no more pressure than typically used on the squeegee. The video shows only one. However - you have made me think that if one is good - why not two? It seems at first thought that one of these could be attached to the squeegee bar and one to the flood bar- bar. Then you could roll both ways.
Don't know the the flood bar would be able to apply pressure to the pallet on most machines?
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Action (Eric?)
How much pressure are they using with the roller? Are they using one roller or two like in the video?
I am not certain of the pressure. I would suggest that no more pressure than typically used on the squeegee. The video shows only one. However - you have made me think that if one is good - why not two? It seems at first thought that one of these could be attached to the squeegee bar and one to the flood bar- bar. Then you could roll both ways.
I am sure the thought of selling 2 to each of us makes you excited but why not just double stroke roll it?
It does excite me - thank you! It could be double rolled, but that would impact production rates. One roll is really all that is necessary for the benefit.
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"Then you could roll both ways."
They have a name for that I think..... ;D
As a side note, I would think that a smoothing station could work as a cool-down station too, the direct contact with the ink may even help cool down things even faster. A small fan blowing on the top of the screen could help keep the screen/teflon from holding heat.
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"Then you could roll both ways."
They have a name for that I think..... ;D
As a side note, I would think that a smoothing station could work as a cool-down station too, the direct contact with the ink may even help cool down things even faster. A small fan blowing on the top of the screen could help keep the screen/teflon from holding heat.
On the other hand, you do want the ink still holding the heat for the rolling smoothing process, so not a lot of dwell by the fan before that.
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Yes, absolutely. I was just think if I'd have to give up 2 heads after the flash and realized I wouldn't as the flattening head would serve as both. It doesn't really matter either way, that's why I bought a 12 colour even though I rarely print more than 6 colours.
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Anyone have close up pics of rolled and unrolled prints? And which white ink they used? I guess I'm still skeptical lol
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Anyone have close up pics of rolled and unrolled prints? And which white ink they used? I guess I'm still skeptical lol
Action Engineering Roller Squeegee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTw9cgAzJdM#ws)
Pause the video at exactly 6-7 seconds for the best before rolling picture.
Pause the video at exactly 1.23 for the best after rolling picture.
Do you see the difference?
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Anyone have close up pics of rolled and unrolled prints? And which white ink they used? I guess I'm still skeptical lol
This video was done by a well known R&D person at a well known Ink manufacturer.
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Action Engineering Roller Squeegee ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTw9cgAzJdM#ws[/url])
Pause the video at exactly 6-7 seconds for the best before rolling picture.
Pause the video at exactly 1.23 for the best after rolling picture.
Do you see the difference?
Doesn't the 6-7 second shot show the quality after a single print of white (presumably after a flash) and 1:23 show the same pellon after a second print of white? I'd like to see a single hit of white after flash, with and without a smoothing roll.
I have little doubt that they work, but I really think it would be a much better to see a before and after of the same print with the only thing that changes is the use of the roller rather than trying to see the difference when one sample has 1 print and the other has PFP.
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The fact of the matter is a smoothing screen makes a dramatic difference in the print quality. We have been running one for a while and the pic that will show the best results is a pic of the Highlight white with and without the smoothing screen. With the smoothing screen it is as smooth as using a heat press when done right. We use a hard squeegee and get great results. If I can on Monday I will take a few pics of before and after. For you guys with an auto it is really easy to try for your self on your next run of darks.
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Is it worth trying if we already have a smooth ink deposit? Just asking to see if those that are doing it do so because of a rough print or does it make an already smooth print that much better? I'll give anything a try but I'm hesitant because we rarely run into a need for a smoother print, only on sweats do we have an issue sometimes. Blue, are you saying to run the smoothing screen after everything is printed or is everyone smoothing directly after the underbase?
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Is it worth trying if we already have a smooth ink deposit? Just asking to see if those that are doing it do so because of a rough print or does it make an already smooth print that much better? I'll give anything a try but I'm hesitant because we rarely run into a need for a smoother print, only on sweats do we have an issue sometimes. Blue, are you saying to run the smoothing screen after everything is printed or is everyone smoothing directly after the underbase?
I was thinking the same thing. I have very flat smooth prints. Cabn they be smoother by using a smoothy screen? Sure, but way. I feel the smoothing screen is a bandaid or a printer just being anal past the point of the customers vision. Is it an over kill? Is there benifits for us the printer? Does it make wow printing easier?
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I'm with Al and Screened on this. Unless there's some speciality application going on you shouldn't need anything like this.
But I could see a smoothing screen doing us a favor after the first flash on some of those bastard fibrilating ringpuns we print on. It might be enough to smoosh those few fibers into the ink that just seem to refuse to matt down all the way.
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To play a bit of a lil' devil's advocate here, besides the cost if one goes for the roller, what's the harm? If you're rolling on what otherwise would be a cool down station, not even any time is wasted.
Those problem prints that all of us have seen at some point notwithstanding, maybe even on good prints, there is smooth, and then there is smooooooooth!
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Alan, you should really give a smoothing screen a try. It doesn't only make the print incredibly smooth, as if you heat pressed the print in the post, but it somehow makes the print feel much softer.