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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: Gilligan on October 03, 2012, 12:34:23 PM
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More precisely the gallons used would be better.
Our landlord recently got a bill for water/sewage that was almost 3x the normal... and coincidentally I just moved my equipment in and they know it. So guess who got the blame?
The trick is though that we really haven't processed squat here yet... maybe 20 screens (full circle). The property manager lives in the same neighborhood as we do so I asked her what her water bill was at home usually. She said "$27 bucks"... I said, ours has always been lower than that (they know we did this at home before). Then that afternoon we got the home bill in. It went down $3 bucks. So I let her know that this morning after she showed the place next door.
I told her she needs to find out what is up, there is no reason that bill went up $100 bucks from usage. I also said that he the landlord really starts talking about making us pay it, I will put in my own meter (we don't have individuals) and show what I use every month. I don't mind paying for what I use but I'm not paying some arbitrary ridiculous amount.
So anyway, if any "typical" smallish shop (even mid sized, just let me know maybe how many screens you process a month) could give me the gallons used a month so I could share that info as a "MAX" we would EVER use in this location that would help.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Our unit is owned by us but is part of a condo type thing where all the units have condo fees so we don't have individual meters. But about a year ago the management company started an investigation because the water usage about doubled. They inspected all of our units (their is ten) and they came to the conclusion it had to be us that all of a sudden doubled the whole buildings water usage. Uh NOT! Anyways what happened was the water company stepped in and was able to determine their was a small but some what substantial leak underground that was not percolating to the surface but actually draining directly to the water table. The fix was repaired and water usage back to normal.
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For my house water/ sewer is up 20% we pay $280.00 for 3 months so $93.00 a month. 4 people here
Sent from samsung gem(the worst smart phone ever)
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More precisely the gallons used would be better.
Our landlord recently got a bill for water/sewage that was almost 3x the normal... and coincidentally I just moved my equipment in and they know it. So guess who got the blame?
what date did you move in, and what date was the reading at?
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We have been in the building in some form for a few years now.
We just moved the equipment in a few weeks ago. I did mention that it is possible that the work we DID do wasn't even likely on this bill yet.
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You have two possibilities here.
1. Incorrect meter readings (which eventually average out)
2. A leak. Go see if the meter moves at all when no water is being used (the longer the time period, the better)
Now, if shared with other businesses, all bets are off.
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our bill here is around $60-$80 for the whole building. Pretty cheap I think. We should go to individual meters here, but we won't.
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Just two businesses, and I could tell them to not use any water for an extended amount of time.
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Read the meter at night after all have gone home then read it in the morning before people show up, thats how our water company figured out we had a leak. Scary thing was if the leak was under the buidling itself (which the main does run under) the bill would have been on the association, fortunately it was under the parking lot.
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Hmmm... I can't find a meter.
Even walked the residential property next door and couldn't find a water meter.
Sketchy.
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they are usually in the ground...i would start there. ;)
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Thanks Cpt. Obvious. :p
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ask the landlord under the guise of "just in case" there is a problem, where are the shutoffs for the gas and water? He should know.
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With eight bathrooms, four washout sinks and an ice machine i don't want to know!
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They will tell me.
They want to get to the bottom of this as well. They just automatically assumed since I moved in new equipment at the same time it must be me.
I WISH I was so busy that I ran up an extra $100 on the water bill by myself. ;)
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Since the building is split in to multiple units like ours there might be a utility room with all the meters and main connections coming in. If not in a room like then it could be in a box under ground with an access lid.
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Right at $40 bucks a month, bill claims 18 Gallons used (which seems low to me but whatever). We reclaim 36-75 screens a week. Wash cars, use water in our evap unit, drink water (fountain), etc. 4 people here every day, sometimes as many as 6 plus visitors.
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Mike, this building isn't that sophisticated, I looked for an in ground bunker thing... our meter guys regularly carry sight tubes because of how much rain we have they often have to plunge them into the water to see the meter... so usually not very much other than a simple metal box/lid that is about 8" (I have on at my house like this).
Brandt, there is probably a multiplier like on an RPM gauge. That is probably X 100 or something, probably times 1000 actually. Figure each toilet flush is at least 2 gallons alone. I know just exposing a few screens in my shop filled up my 28 gallon solids tank (probably 20 gallons to the outlet spout I put on it).. granted that was exposing with a garden hose vs pressure washer so that used more water than needed (I'm now developing with pressure washer, it's VERY nice).
Thanks!
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Mike, this building isn't that sophisticated, I looked for an in ground bunker thing... our meter guys regularly carry sight tubes because of how much rain we have they often have to plunge them into the water to see the meter... so usually not very much other than a simple metal box/lid that is about 8" (I have on at my house like this).
Brandt, there is probably a multiplier like on an RPM gauge. That is probably X 100 or something, probably times 1000 actually. Figure each toilet flush is at least 2 gallons alone. I know just exposing a few screens in my shop filled up my 28 gallon solids tank (probably 20 gallons to the outlet spout I put on it).. granted that was exposing with a garden hose vs pressure washer so that used more water than needed (I'm now developing with pressure washer, it's VERY nice).
Thanks!
Bill is clear as mud. LOL.
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I use about 15k gallons a month. Water, sewer, and garbage all combined on one bill, totals around $80.00 per month. Water's cut of that is $27ish.
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water and gas will generally also have a shutoff outside in case of emergency.
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Shut off doesn't do anything for finding out where this bill is... if the leak is INSIDE then we would KNOW!
Other than our new line that keyed them in on us as the problem (erroneously) it's a straight shot through one wall to all the plumbing fixtures only about 40' at it's furtherest.
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correct, but the meter AND shutoff are together...what good would a meter on the inside do if a business carries funky hours?
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Most shut offs are not related to the meter. We have a shut off on each unit but no meter to be found. I do have a shut off NEAR my meter at my house and I'm sure there is one NEAR the meter at the shop... wherever that might be, but therein lies the problem, I don't know where the meter is and we DON'T have individual meters (or this wouldn't be an issue anyway because we would be paying our own water bill.)
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right, there should be a master shutoff in the same hole as the meter. That way the water man can shut it off if you don't pay your bill. ;)
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I'm sure there is but what is your point? I already said I can't locate the meter, so what good will the adjacent shutoff do if it is next to the meter. Then next how does this help figure out why the bill is high?
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I'm sure there is but what is your point? I already said I can't locate the meter, so what good will the adjacent shutoff do if it is next to the meter. Then next how does this help figure out why the bill is high?
Have you SEEN the bill or is he just making these claims and you are taking them at face value?
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my point was to inkman's that it might be inside, it will be outside, finding it is another matter.
I guess you could also call the water company, they might send the meter reader out to show you. Tell them you think you have a leak.
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If it is a joint use building the meter could be in a utility closet inside one of the other units. There will be a main somewhere by the street and there should be a standpipe somewhere on the outside if the building is up to spec. There has to be access to cut the water from the outside.
I would tell the Landlord to prove it to you. Thats BS. Take take his crap.
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Well, nothing has been done yet. I don't think he's bringing this up to be a prick. He has many properties and many businesses to run. He's cut me a hell of a deal on rent and I just set up his email on his iPhone not but a few days ago for "free" so I doubt he's trying to be a prick.
I planned on speaking with the manager of the property to see if she can get the utility company to come out and see if there is a leak or at least tell me where the meter is. I'm certain she has no clue.
FYI, this is a pretty old building and I don't think it was built with the intention of being a multi-tenant facility. In my town all our water meters are pretty much in-ground, it's possible in some commercial settings it isn't, but I've personally never seen it. And this is a small building in reality. There is a total of 4 toilets and 5 sinks in the entire building... no other water fixtures (I of course added my washout booth just a couple of weeks ago and as timing would have it, poof, the bill shot up for some reason).
Also the back unit hasn't even been occupied for a couple of months. Front unit has 3 women working in it and then it's us... so not much happening here.
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We use about 15,000-17,000 gallons per billing cycle currently. My goal is to cut that 2/3 by using a "holding tank" from our sump pump and a filter.
I would ask the owner for a copy of the bills because your "accountant" needed to verify and justify it in your books as it was a "new un-foreseen expense" or some BS like that. It kinda sounds like you are being used as a scapegoat.
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yeah, if it continues, I would install a water meter on the line coming into your suite...if it is only 1. A building like that might share a lot of lines because of remodeling. Ours does in some places.
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Our building is VERY straightforward. Everything is right there on the back side.
That is my plan IF he does want to charge us for water... like I said, I will pay for what I use and no more.
I hope I haven't misconstrued the situation... I'm just arming myself at this point because he is TALKING about having us split the water bill. Nothing has happened yet. I have no reason to see the bill because as of now, it's still HIS bill and he is paying for it. Oh and we use the same book keeper. ;)
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Well, suppose you could ask your book keeper if your landlords water bill went up then! ;D
After re reading some of the post it dawned on me, I had a issue with a tenant running the washing machine too much. I installed a in line meter, it is SUPER easy. I only needed a 1/2" one, but here is a link to a 3/4" one of the same thing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/G3-4-water-Flow-Counter-Sensor-Digital-LCD-Meter-Gauge-dc-10V-24V-/180918237481?_trksid=p4340.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D113%26meid%3D2516559339121442990%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1065%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D261076632269%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/G3-4-water-Flow-Counter-Sensor-Digital-LCD-Meter-Gauge-dc-10V-24V-/180918237481?_trksid=p4340.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D113%26meid%3D2516559339121442990%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1065%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D261076632269%26)
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Thanks, that's awesome... MUCH cheaper than a "real" meter like I was looking at.
I could run the wires inside my shop and check it often. I could even place it on the booth itself and monitor how much that's using if I wanted to later.
Pretty cheap and handy!
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Just slap an inline meter in, report usage (hell, let the land lady read it if she wants) and pay by the gallon. Thats what we do. There was an aquaponics setup going into the building and it's all one meter so I was happy to cover the cost of the meter and install.
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Check when the water meter was actually read. Many utilities do not read the meters every month, but will just bill an average amount. When they do finally get a real reading there may be a significant discrepancy between what they've charge out for the last few months and what the actual reading is. The discrepancy can go either way, and depending on what they've been charging out it can be a significant "correction".
When I moved into my previous shop my first month's gas bill was about 5 times what it should have been, I phoned and found out it was just a number they plucked out of the air since it was a new shop. I went out and did a reading for them and reported the number and they changed the charge to what was really used.
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I addressed that as well with the property manager. Definitely possible that they are "catching up" being that 3 women moved into the front office where as it was empty for months before that.