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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Rockers on October 08, 2012, 06:32:46 AM

Title: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: Rockers on October 08, 2012, 06:32:46 AM
So far we have mainly be using N166 for doing wet on wet on top of a white base. Just wondering if we should up or mesh count to N205 or even N272? What are the pros and cons of using higher mesh. I assume less build up on succeeding screens and a overall better print. Anything else?
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: jasonl on October 08, 2012, 08:39:43 AM
I use a 110 to 200 for my base according to art.  230 -305 for top colors and top white.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: tpitman on October 08, 2012, 08:43:47 AM
Did a 2-color over flashed white on black tees wet on wet. White was a 230, colors were 305. White was IC 711LF White. Very good coverage through higher mesh counts, and easy to print.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: blue moon on October 08, 2012, 09:06:39 AM
we use 305 on the t-shirts and higher mesh on the hoodies.

I've found that if we use a lower mesh count, we are depositing too much ink and it is mushrooming out when the next color is printed!

pierre
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: 3Deep on October 08, 2012, 10:18:20 AM
Wet on wet printing allso has a lot to do with your inks as well as your mesh count, some inks just don't do wet on wet good at all.

Darryl
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: blue moon on October 08, 2012, 11:22:13 AM
Wet on wet printing allso has a lot to do with your inks as well as your mesh count, some inks just don't do wet on wet good at all.

Darryl

excellent point!

pierre
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: GraphicDisorder on October 08, 2012, 11:53:29 AM
Wet on wet printing allso has a lot to do with your inks as well as your mesh count, some inks just don't do wet on wet good at all.

Darryl

Examples?
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: jasonl on October 08, 2012, 12:35:43 PM
Wet on wet printing allso has a lot to do with your inks as well as your mesh count, some inks just don't do wet on wet good at all.

Darryl

Examples?

Cheap ink!  If you elect to use bargin ink, chances are your wet on wet prints will suffer.  I know from experience.  Not to say that there are not some good bargain inks available, but be careful.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: mk162 on October 08, 2012, 01:10:10 PM
some ink formulations are terrible for wow printing.  Like the OLD Wilflex MP line, awful wow ink. 
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: inkman996 on October 08, 2012, 01:11:51 PM
Maxo's fron union.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: ScreenFoo on October 08, 2012, 01:32:46 PM
Maxo's fron union.
I was just thinking that.  Old SSV series from wiflex was pretty horrible WOW too.

*Most* whites.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: tpitman on October 08, 2012, 02:00:24 PM
The job I mentioned used yellow that I got when I bought my press second hand. I'm pretty sure it's Triangle. I started the job using QCM's XOLB Bright Red, but it has a nasty tendency to drop ink along behind the squeegee as you push it, sometimes leaving a blob on the print itself as the screen is still in contact with the shirt and pulls the blob through. Also had to wipe buildup from the back, especially where the red and yellow touched at one spot but wasn't supposed to blend. Switched to Union Ultrasoft Bright Red, and didn't have to wipe the build up off once. The edge where the two touched stayed clean through the remainder of the job. The only think I don't like about the ultrasoft is it cures too glossy.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: ZooCity on October 08, 2012, 02:01:42 PM
150/48 and sometime up for the ub.

180/48, 225/40, 310/30, 330/30 for top colors, depending on what needs to get done up top.

Yes, select high quality WOW inks (any good brand is probably fine) and don't modify them at all.  Warm, stir well and print. 

If tension, off contact, parallel is good and blades are sharp and properly set you'll get along great with WOW.   

One more piece of this puzzle are the seps- some seps (like Mr. Dan's here and I'm sure other separator's work) are made with ink deposit in mind and some (like maybe our in-house ones), not so much.  This can result in a bunch of mud in one area of the print and inadequate coverage in another area.  There's nothing you can do, no matter how pro you are at WOW printing, to fix a situation that began in the art.  I think this is a really common issue/error with sim process.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: 3Deep on October 08, 2012, 02:02:19 PM
I got some union inks red for one that is sticky as all get out and a few other colors that don't print well wet on wet and a couple of inks from WM plastics that don't print very well.

Darryl
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: jasonl on October 08, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
150/48 and sometime up for the ub.

180/48, 225/40, 310/30, 330/30 for top colors, depending on what needs to get done up top.

Yes, select high quality WOW inks (any good brand is probably fine) and don't modify them at all.  Warm, stir well and print. 

If tension, off contact, parallel is good and blades are sharp and properly set you'll get along great with WOW.   

One more piece of this puzzle are the seps- some seps (like Mr. Dan's here and I'm sure other separator's work) are made with ink deposit in mind and some (like maybe our in-house ones), not so much.  This can result in a bunch of mud in one area of the print and inadequate coverage in another area.  There's nothing you can do, no matter how pro you are at WOW printing, to fix a situation that began in the art.  I think this is a really common issue/error with sim process.

You are so correct, I would rather have GREAT seps and a sh!tty press, then the other way around.  Seps are the MOST important IMO!
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: ZooCity on October 08, 2012, 03:18:17 PM
Yep.  If you got tight art, that's built with the gear in mind, you can make a beautiful print with damn near any kind of ink or press setup. 
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: blue moon on October 08, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
Yep.  If you got tight art, that's built with the gear in mind, you can make a beautiful print with damn near any kind of ink or press setup.

yes, just look at us! If a clueless hack like me can do well with his seps, I would imagine almost anybody can. I think was not printing for six months when Dan did our first seps, and the prints came better than most shops in town can do. And I did not have a clue 1!

As far as the inks, Union's maxo and mixo are not WOW friendly. They do make an additive that helps. From experience, I can als say that high opacity QCM is not WOW friendly either. Both of those companies make inks designed for WOW and in Union's case, they even have a simulated process line.

pierre
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: Rockers on October 08, 2012, 07:53:11 PM
How about the Wilflex Epic inks. I`m talking pigment concentrates with an epic base. Which base would be suitable for wow printing?
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: ZooCity on October 08, 2012, 08:00:53 PM
How about the Wilflex Epic inks. I`m talking pigment concentrates with an epic base. Which base would be suitable for wow printing?

We run the regular Epic Base for WOW, works great.  We use PCs too and if you go maximum pigment in an ink you'll hurt it's WOW characteristics but that goes without saying.   

I'm hoping to have something worthy to try out the halftone mixing base soon and see if that improves the WOW characteristics at all. 
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: jasonl on October 08, 2012, 08:43:33 PM
We use wilflex epic inks exclusively for WOW with EXCELLENT results.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: Rockers on October 08, 2012, 08:49:14 PM
We use wilflex epic inks exclusively for WOW with EXCELLENT results.
You are using the ready mixed inks or PC with base? If so which base do you use for wow?
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: ScreenPrinter123 on October 09, 2012, 12:07:15 AM
We predominately use the Union Plus line for top WOW colors.  Has anyone used Union's Plus line in addition to another brand/line that was found to be significantly superior for WOW (i.e., worth changing to from the Union Plus Series)?

Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: JBLUE on October 09, 2012, 01:32:23 AM
We use wilflex epic Pc and have started Testing Ruflands C3. Wilflex Epic has some issues with breakdown and color shifts on the auto. That's what git us to look at C3. I can tell you that the c3 has not done any of that so far. It holds up with a lot less breakdown over longer runs.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: Rockers on October 11, 2012, 05:22:35 AM
How about the Wilflex Epic inks. I`m talking pigment concentrates with an epic base. Which base would be suitable for wow printing?

We run the regular Epic Base for WOW, works great.  We use PCs too and if you go maximum pigment in an ink you'll hurt it's WOW characteristics but that goes without saying.   

I'm hoping to have something worthy to try out the halftone mixing base soon and see if that improves the WOW characteristics at all.
Well the halftone base is very transparent, as it is for CMYK process colors. Dont`think the result will be very good. That`s what the guys at Wilflex told me today. They recommend for light garments  Epic mixing base + PC and reducing the mix down with 10% softhand clear + 10% curable reducer. If you are talking black or darks on white base, then stick with Epic mixing base 100% +PC.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: ZooCity on October 11, 2012, 06:07:15 AM
Bad advice regarding mixing in Soft Hand Clear and adding Curable Reducer. 


Just mix your inks with the regular base and go to town.  Way less frustration. 

So the halftone base should be called CMYK base then basically?  I was hoping it had some characteristics like QCM's WOW Clear.   Heck, I wonder if QCM WOW clear is tintable with WFX PCs?   That would be my ultimate WOW ink there.
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: Sbrem on October 11, 2012, 10:12:57 AM
150/48 and sometime up for the ub.

180/48, 225/40, 310/30, 330/30 for top colors, depending on what needs to get done up top.

Yes, select high quality WOW inks (any good brand is probably fine) and don't modify them at all.  Warm, stir well and print. 

If tension, off contact, parallel is good and blades are sharp and properly set you'll get along great with WOW.   

One more piece of this puzzle are the seps- some seps (like Mr. Dan's here and I'm sure other separator's work) are made with ink deposit in mind and some (like maybe our in-house ones), not so much.  This can result in a bunch of mud in one area of the print and inadequate coverage in another area.  There's nothing you can do, no matter how pro you are at WOW printing, to fix a situation that began in the art.  I think this is a really common issue/error with sim process.

You are so correct, I would rather have GREAT seps and a sh!tty press, then the other way around.  Seps are the MOST important IMO!

I kinda get that concept, but a shitty press makes the good seps look shitty... I guess I'd rather have both.

Steve
Title: Re: Wet on wet/what mesh count is best.
Post by: jasonl on October 11, 2012, 11:36:34 AM
150/48 and sometime up for the ub.

180/48, 225/40, 310/30, 330/30 for top colors, depending on what needs to get done up top.

Yes, select high quality WOW inks (any good brand is probably fine) and don't modify them at all.  Warm, stir well and print. 

If tension, off contact, parallel is good and blades are sharp and properly set you'll get along great with WOW.   

One more piece of this puzzle are the seps- some seps (like Mr. Dan's here and I'm sure other separator's work) are made with ink deposit in mind and some (like maybe our in-house ones), not so much.  This can result in a bunch of mud in one area of the print and inadequate coverage in another area.  There's nothing you can do, no matter how pro you are at WOW printing, to fix a situation that began in the art.  I think this is a really common issue/error with sim process.

You are so correct, I would rather have GREAT seps and a sh!tty press, then the other way around.  Seps are the MOST important IMO!

I kinda get that concept, but a shitty press makes the good seps look shitty... I guess I'd rather have both.

Steve

Ha! no doubt both are better, thankfully I have both.  But you know what I am saying.