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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: whitewater on October 10, 2012, 02:14:14 PM
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SO i lost a 300 shirt job and a 200 shirt job this week due to pricing..i really could have used those...maybe i have to adjust...
My wife is part of the pta at our kids school...she was last year as well.. well we printed for the fundraiser last year and it went very well...well this year my wife is the only member from last year...so she brings up the apparel fundraiser. I gave here the logo order form and what not..
Some of the other ladies questioned whether we were reliable...they had pamphlets from customink, and a few places in jersey...she told them we are a local business and have 2 kids in their school so it made sense to go with us...they said the companies they had pamphlets for just looked more professional...wtf? what the hell do i have to do to get orders in here?!? My kids school is giving me a hard time....why do i need to shell out $$$ for a effin pamphlet to get their approval....
not a good week
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PTA=? ;)
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Women + PTA= PIA. That is the nicest way to say it really.
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trust me, your day can't be worse than mine. customer approves a $2300 order and when it's delivered they tell me it's wrong. Well, it matches the proof you approved, now they don't remember getting the proof, so I sent them the email and their response. Crap, people are stupid.
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Rob,
next year when they order from you because the other company screwed up, raise the prices and tell them you had to pay for the flyers!
I would also make some really nice shirts for your kids and have them wear them in school. The other kids will be asking their parents why they can't have them!!! Eventually it will make it to the PTA and hopefully more than one person asks about it!
You can also bring up the point of CPSIA. Is the other company compliant? If you are and they are not, bring up the potential $40k fine and see who is responsible for it. Also, if your wife is on the board, she can refuse to accept the non compliant shirts. (I can help you with compliance if you need that)
In the end, you know you are going to lose orders due to pricing, it happens all the time.
pierre
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your right, mk...
just feeling sorry for myself...
pta=parent teacher assoc?
pierre....right on
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I feel for you. In that situation your dealing with a bunch of PTA people (see how I didn't say "stay at home Mom's that have nothing better to do then drive you nuts) that all what their way so they look good at the end of the day. (I am not against women in any way) Just tell the women that like the pamphlets so much to get a quote for the shirts have them ask to be sent samples so they can see the quality of the prints. I would guess that is were it will stop.
You have to stick to your guns on pricing and the way you do business. When you need money do what you have to. It takes time to get your pricing to a point were you are confident in it. I have made changes to my pricing almost every month in my first 2 years. Not big changes just added a quarter here subtracted a dime there. Ask the customer how your price looks compared to other quotes they are getting. I am currently adjusting my pricing again. I am trying to bring in more low color large orders. It kind of a game to me at this point. I have a core client base and now I am just trying to build a new large order core.
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Tell them Custom Ink outsources they do not print themselves. (or do they?)
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Dont know about anyone else but as of last month Custom Ink commercials are now being played in my area, and they are running pictures of local schools and fire departments they have done jobs for. Turns my stomach when I see it, but brings a smile to my face when I see the volunteer FD's using them.
PTA's can be a nightmare, volunteer ninnys with absolutely nothing better to do and operate under the assumption if they accomplish enough for the PTA they might get a wing named after them lol. I find about 50% of PTA moms to be brutaly arrogant and absolutely mindless about supporting local business.
You almost want to ask them "isn;t the fact you are volunteering to be a PTA mom because you want to support your childs school? Well we want the local schools work because we think people should support local businesses just like you want to support your school."
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Rob. remember that e-mail I sent you about perceived value? read up towards the top - something about looks are everything. well here we are -however I think custom inks stuff looks like arial black with a hint of comic sans - you need a BANGIN design / brochure /ad campaign. there are so many great artists here that can help with that -use it, it's a tool to your advantage over those guys in jersey.
I don't care what anybody says -looks are everything. . . and yes you do need to pay for it.
. . .take these losses as learning curves. now you need to prepare for the next time. you have just been given information as to why you lost these jobs, so now it's on you to fix your model a bit and get back at it. These guys will be back after they get lousy service /prints from the other guys. So be prepared. Put that scholarship in to play, maybe you can snag them back with that. . .you know my motto "If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you got"
We have all been there - hell we all go through this everyday, it's not just you. Everybody knows somebodies cousin that puts paint on t-shirts. . .now go focus on what you have, not what you don't. . .
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Focus your efforts like a laser beam on business to business sales.....And that means knocking on doors....Over the years I have found them to be a more reliable source of sales versus schools, churches, sport teams, etc.....For the latter, there always seems to be someone on the board, committee, etc. that know someone in the business so you lose on that count.....Also, these groups tend to be much more price sensitive than business owners.....And when you go out looking for orders, you can find folks that are not yet looking, so you have a better chance of writing up orders before they start shopping.....And if you do, they may not be as price sensitive as once they start looking.....
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i deal with this all the time, a local college went out of state for their stuff and the local middle school went with a printer outside of the city limits after they told me they would give me a shot at it since I am actually inside the city limits. I never even got the chance to quote it.
I can't make people use me, I can just offer a fair price for a great product. They should be using you instead of custom ink, but let their stuff come in looking like crap and see how long it takes them to get quotes from you.
Homer is right, design is everything. Look at the new fast food restaurants popping up. They are sleek and swanky on the inside, with shirts that talk about how smart you are for eating their and all that feel good crap.
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Appearances are everything.
But trust me, whatever the other guy is doing it for is not worth the aggravation
of dealing with the PTA.
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Why wouldn't you have some hand outs? Doesn't cost much? We put some in EVERY box that leaves here. HUGE way we earn more business.
Do you know how many people are unboxing their order and their buddy is with them and he said where did you get these? Boom next thing I know I get a email saying X/Y/Z just got his shirts and I was there he gave me your hand out. Id like to order some shirts.
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I am sure once they receive the shirts they will be bummed due to quality. You will get them next year and you can mark them up even a bit more this time and they will pay to not have the crap quality they received the year before. :)
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Why is it that everyone assumes lower priced printing is automatically lower quality. I agree it often is, but it's not always. Just food for thought.
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Why is it that everyone assumes lower priced printing is automatically lower quality. I agree it often is, but it's not always. Just food for thought.
I wouldn't even care about the quality when it comes to Custom Ink, its the principal knowing they are gouging some other printer that needs the low margin work to survive, but you can bet CI is raking in a fortune.
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Why is it that everyone assumes lower priced printing is automatically lower quality. I agree it often is, but it's not always. Just food for thought.
I wouldn't even care about the quality when it comes to Custom Ink, its the principal knowing they are gouging some other printer that needs the low margin work to survive, but you can bet CI is raking in a fortune.
But the reality is a quality print can come out of Custom Ink, they are using shops just like all of us run. Some of them DO care about quality.
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I do not think CI has to "grind" printers very hard......There is so much surplus capacity these days I find that the printers that call me are almost begging for work....
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12.50 for the screens and minimum order of one piece that pays about $1. That's 13.50 to print one piece. We are at $37 for the same.
I can see printers working for CI cutting corners in order to make money on the jobs. Chances of getting a good print from CI can't really be that high (not say that there aren't any, just that it is more likely to not be as good as somebody not cutting the corners).
pierre
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Why wouldn't you have some hand outs? Doesn't cost much? We put some in EVERY box that leaves here. HUGE way we earn more business.
Do you know how many people are unboxing their order and their buddy is with them and he said where did you get these? Boom next thing I know I get a email saying X/Y/Z just got his shirts and I was there he gave me your hand out. Id like to order some shirts.
I put cards in there those boxes...you are all correct...Jay your right, i'm on it!
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12.50 for the screens and minimum order of one piece that pays about $1. That's 13.50 to print one piece. We are at $37 for the same.
I can see printers working for CI cutting corners in order to make money on the jobs. Chances of getting a good print from CI can't really be that high (not say that there aren't any, just that it is more likely to not be as good as somebody not cutting the corners).
pierre
Are you saying they dont have DTG'ers for the low qtys? That really blows if they dont.
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12.50 for the screens and minimum order of one piece that pays about $1. That's 13.50 to print one piece. We are at $37 for the same.
I can see printers working for CI cutting corners in order to make money on the jobs. Chances of getting a good print from CI can't really be that high (not say that there aren't any, just that it is more likely to not be as good as somebody not cutting the corners).
pierre
Are you saying they dont have DTG'ers for the low qtys? That really blows if they dont.
even with DTG, the time it takes to write up the order, process it, prep the art, pretreat the shirt and than print it, it is a losing proposition. We need about 15 min per order of order entry (between the admin, art and production)
pierre
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Very true I am just saying that I would hate to get 10 orders for 1 shirt in a day. that would really suck. I am sure its rare but still I dont see how that would work with anyones business model.
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How about asking for the chance to compete, beat their price, and show some samples of your good work, and explain how long you've been at it. Be nice, and try to make them laugh; it goes a long way.
Steve
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Yes, being personable is very key. Build report with them and they won't WANT to go with anyone else.
The bad thing is obviously you have a high turn over rate with PTA's. But if enough people on staff KNOW "this is who we go with" then next year they will "train" the next group that "this is who we go with". ;)
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Why is it that everyone assumes lower priced printing is automatically lower quality. I agree it often is, but it's not always. Just food for thought.
You are absolutely right. I really didn't mean to dig on another printer and that was bad of me. I was trying offer encouragement but it came out wrong!
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Perceived Value....and Appearance....two themes that keep coming up in the thread....and both are true.
I like when people ask me..."are you part of a chain of stores?"
Good clear signage, concise clear cards, brochures and rack cards, custom printed catalogs (lots of 'em).....and a fresh coat of paint always helps.(if you have store front).
I don't want them thinking of me as one of the "tshirt guys" in the area......I want them thinking I am the PREMIER PROFESSIONAL.
First impressions mean everything
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I just recently picked up a local account whom got his shirts from some printer in Cali for years now. He questioned my cheaper pricing. He saved money on shipping as well since we could drop off or he could pick up. He "gambled" on us.
Not only is our design cooler, the prints are better. He spent 3k last week, just spend another 3k this week. We have quotes to him for another 13k that he should be paying invoices on any day. Beating these prints were not hard at all. I don't understand how some people push some of this stuff out the door.
Perfect example how you can get some one on a good price and if your printing and service are good you can keep them.
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PTAs+schools=drama+politics+Pain in the ass.
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I like Pierre's idea of making killer shirts for your kids to wear to school that will outshine those other guys' product. Maybe invest on making a different version for each day of the week. The other kids will covet and ask where they came from. Put your phone number on there!
And yes, printed pamphlets, flyers, brochures, etc. are kind of a good idea.
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I like Pierre's idea of making killer shirts for your kids to wear to school that will outshine those other guys' product. Maybe invest on making a different version for each day of the week. The other kids will covet and ask where they came from. Put your phone number on there!
And yes, printed pamphlets, flyers, brochures, etc. are kind of a good idea.
This is the first year for my daughter in school (kindergarten) I hooked her up with a bad azz back pack with logo, and some DTG shirts with school logos and already we got a hit one at least two jobs.
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I just recently picked up a local account whom got his shirts from some printer in Cali for years now. He questioned my cheaper pricing. He saved money on shipping as well since we could drop off or he could pick up. He "gambled" on us.
Not only is our design cooler, the prints are better. He spent 3k last week, just spend another 3k this week. We have quotes to him for another 13k that he should be paying invoices on any day. Beating these prints were not hard at all. I don't understand how some people push some of this stuff out the door.
Perfect example how you can get some one on a good price and if your printing and service are good you can keep them.
I'm sure you won't agree or take this the right way but I honestly think (from your description) that he possibly didn't believe you would turn out a good product BECAUSE your price was so low... "how can you, if the other guy is so high".
I had an EX-biz partner do that with a video shoot. A HUGE company wanted a commercial... the big boys in town were quoting 50k and 70k... my buddy was like "that's ridiculous... we could do it for under 10k". It was a friend of his and he never even got a chance to place a bid... they don't want to see that. They PERCEIVE that they are getting 50k-70k WORTH of a commercial and that we would only give them 10k worth of a commercial. They were of course wrong and we would have rented the same gear the other guys have and hired the same light crew (or better)... but we didn't even get our foot in the door because we just looked to small/mom and pop to do such a "large" job because our price was too reasonable.
In the end one of the other companies got that gig and made HAND OVER FIST simply because they were priced higher and ergo had a "perceived value" that we didn't.
If we would have bid the job at 40k we might have gotten it and been set... but my buddy was too short sighted to see that.
I think in your case you might have had to convince him to give you a shot because he felt like there was no way you could do as good as the other guys because of the price. "you must be cutting corners somewhere" is the mindset. Or "there must be something wrong". If you are looking at two identical trucks and one guy says "I'm asking 10k for it" and the other guy says "I'll take 2k". Are you going to jump all over that 2k truck or will you investigate to see "what is wrong" and why is he only asking 2k? ;)
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I just recently picked up a local account whom got his shirts from some printer in Cali for years now. He questioned my cheaper pricing. He saved money on shipping as well since we could drop off or he could pick up. He "gambled" on us.
Not only is our design cooler, the prints are better. He spent 3k last week, just spend another 3k this week. We have quotes to him for another 13k that he should be paying invoices on any day. Beating these prints were not hard at all. I don't understand how some people push some of this stuff out the door.
Perfect example how you can get some one on a good price and if your printing and service are good you can keep them.
I'm sure you won't agree or take this the right way but I honestly think (from your description) that he possibly didn't believe you would turn out a good product BECAUSE your price was so low... "how can you, if the other guy is so high".
I had an EX-biz partner do that with a video shoot. A HUGE company wanted a commercial... the big boys in town were quoting 50k and 70k... my buddy was like "that's ridiculous... we could do it for under 10k". It was a friend of his and he never even got a chance to place a bid... they don't want to see that. They PERCEIVE that they are getting 50k-70k WORTH of a commercial and that we would only give them 10k worth of a commercial. They were of course wrong and we would have rented the same gear the other guys have and hired the same light crew (or better)... but we didn't even get our foot in the door because we just looked to small/mom and pop to do such a "large" job because our price was too reasonable.
In the end one of the other companies got that gig and made HAND OVER FIST simply because they were priced higher and ergo had a "perceived value" that we didn't.
If we would have bid the job at 40k we might have gotten it and been set... but my buddy was too short sighted to see that.
I think in your case you might have had to convince him to give you a shot because he felt like there was no way you could do as good as the other guys because of the price. "you must be cutting corners somewhere" is the mindset. Or "there must be something wrong". If you are looking at two identical trucks and one guy says "I'm asking 10k for it" and the other guy says "I'll take 2k". Are you going to jump all over that 2k truck or will you investigate to see "what is wrong" and why is he only asking 2k? ;)
Of course I don't agree because you are taking my post out of context. Don't read so far into something. "He questioned my pricing". It was a very simple, "You are cheaper than what were paying, is this price correct?" "Yes, this is the correct pricing." Then "Gamble" was the words I used here because the topic here was basically saying that anything cheaper must also be cheaper made or worse quality or something like that. IMO it is not ALWAYS like that was my point. I didn't have to convince him of anything, we met him, we did him 1 design free in effort to score him as he is a big fish around these parts.
I feel you on "perceived value", it's certainly relevant, and now when he looks at what he used to pay a higher price for worse quality it will be perceived he got more for less. That works out great for me. But it's not like I was light years cheaper than they were paying, less than $1 difference in print/shirt cost, the savings on shipping helped as well since I am local they don't have to pay that.
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Sorry I took your words as you typed them at face value.
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Sorry I took your words as you typed them at face value.
Well I think you took the words how you wanted to take them but that's a whole other discussion now isn't it.
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You guys need to just ignore each other for the good of the forum. Just my opinion.
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You guys need to just ignore each other for the good of the forum. Just my opinion.
(http://www.madtomatoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/facebook-like-button-big.jpg)
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Nope
I think that we all need to follow Gilligan..it is obvious he knows everything about everything...
just sayin
sam
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Nope
I think that we all need to follow Gilligan..it is obvious he knows everything about everything...
just sayin
sam
(http://www.madtomatoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/facebook-like-button-big.jpg)
So is this where we are at Sam... just taking cheap shots left and right?
I'm down with that. Tell us how it's done... you buy one of the smallest presses, the smallest wide format and you claim to be SOOO f'ing busy. So busy that you worry so much about what I'm posting?
Give it a rest man... now that Shawn's out of the biz you need someone else to pick on is that it? Get a life... go fly a plane or something.
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Tell you what Sam... I'd like to just get this out there and say let's let any BS go by the way side IF you are willing to.
The fact is, I like to talk/type.. I like have discussions/debates, plain and simple. I'm sorry that bothers you but I would hope you understand that I obviously mean no offense by some of the discussions, hell... half the time it's "devil's advocate" type of talk.
That being said... do you think that in 10 years you won't look back and go "man, I thought I knew X or Y but boy I had it wrong"?
Plain and simple you nor anyone on this board knows EVERYTHING nor do you or anyone know how to do everything right. We are ALL just fumbling through this life. We will ALL learn something everyday from this life and realize what we thought we knew wasn't exactly what we thought we knew.
If you don't agree with that then I guess you can just hate away but if you think it's possible that you might realize that 10 years from now you didn't know it ALL today like you thought you did, then why not put yourself in someone else's shoes and let it go.
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Nope
I think that we all need to follow Gilligan..it is obvious he knows everything about everything...
just sayin
sam
([url]http://www.madtomatoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/facebook-like-button-big.jpg[/url])
So is this where we are at Sam... just taking cheap shots left and right?
I'm down with that. Tell us how it's done... you buy one of the smallest presses, the smallest wide format and you claim to be SOOO f'ing busy. So busy that you worry so much about what I'm posting?
Give it a rest man... now that Shawn's out of the biz you need someone else to pick on is that it? Get a life... go fly a plane or something.
So wait, cheap shots, isn't that exactly what you do to me and now you are criticizing Sam for taking a few at you? That makes a lot of sense.
Sam is a ass, he knows it. He also seems to be doing a lot better than you in business, so maybe turn off your keyboard once and awhile and take notes.
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Gilligan
here is what I see...I see a guy trying to tell people how to do stuff in this business that doesn't even have his own business up and running...I see a guy who thinks it is ok to have his guns stolen because he leaves them unlocked, I see a guy who is posting stuff he has no clue about...
as for me...well some people know me very well...I am NOT a screen printer...I am a business guy...do I run the biggest shop out there NOPE and don't want to...do I run one of the most profitable shops...you bet your ass...I am about making money not being the biggest...if you do any research at all you will see the bigger shops are going by the wayside....there are not the 100,000 item jobs out there anymore...they are all off-shore...it is about systems and putting them in place.
so you know what Gilligan I will keep doing what I do while you guys mess around buying up used old worn out equipment and then bitch it doesn't work while I keep trying to find ways to save $40-$100/yr by making my systems better...
So there you have it...keep doing what you are doing and I will keep turning over screens making money....oh yeah on that smallest wide format printer I made 6 banners yesterday for a profit of over 500 bucks...hmmmmm again most profitable not the biggest....
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A little off topic (hopefully) i saw this in one of the above posts "... now that Shawn's out of the biz......"
did I miss something, or let me rephrase this is anothere thing I missed and am curious EndlessInk? quit? can anyone speed me up?
mooseman
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(Update 9/4/2012) Endless Ink Printing is now an extension of Gnarly Graphics. The master minds at Endless Ink Printing and Gnarly Graphics have decided to merge under the name Gnarly Graphics.These are exciting times for both companies and a huge plus for our customers!
Gnarly Graphics is a Rochester, NY based screen-printing company. We offer a number of screen-printing and graphic design solutions for those in need of our services. Our goal is to keep overhead low and products high-quality, while being very affordable and profitable for our valued customers.
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thanks Royster,
I am just down the road in Seneca Falls and kinda watch the Rochester market a little and I had followed EndlessInk on the boards so I was surprised to hear Shaun was out but not really...Best of luck to Gnarly Graphics and thanks for the info.
mooseman
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just for the record Gilly - Sam's machine is NOT the smallest large format printer. . .fyi. . .
and oh by the way -Rob is doing much better, he downed a liter of whiskey for breakfast. . actually, he's doing better NOW, not so much in a few hours. . . :P
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Once again...showing he has not clue to what is going on...
again...not the biggest just the most profitable....
and one other thing...yeah I have a staff that allows me the freedom ( since I work on the business not in the business ) to go flying whenever I want....oh yeah and I can afford it....
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Once again...showing he has not clue to what is going on...
again...not the biggest just the most profitable....
and one other thing...yeah I have a staff that allows me the freedom ( since I work on the business not in the business ) to go flying whenever I want....oh yeah and I can afford it....
BOOM. . .there ya go.
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Sam,
So it's ok for you not being a screen printer to talk about how to be a screen printer but it's not ok for me who is "not a screen printer" to talk about how to be a screen printer? As I said, I like to talk, I like to discuss. Do I possibly give wrong information? I'm sure I do... but like Brandt always says "hey, this is the internet" (there, got in a shot at you Brandt, passed up one in the last post because I was trying to let bygones by bygones... you agreed we should ignore each other and then you fire away right after that... tada!) See Sam, I'm not the only one out there acting like WE are acting. Again, hey... it's the internet!
I don't really agree with that... but it is somewhat the truth. What we think is so today isn't always what we believe tomorrow. So it's possible that WE are both mistaken on ideas/concepts/advice we give out today.
What if the truth of the matter is that we both bring home the same amount of money each year? Here is the thing... do I have lots of things to learn and lots of room to grow and get better/more efficient? ABSOLUTELY... but then at the same time, we are kicking a$$ in the take home department and making more money than we ever have. So that only means I'm doing more with less doesn't it? Once I fine tune my "systems" and get all my kinks worked out and get it all figured out (become more like Sam right)... then where will I be?
The truth of the matter is you keep making assumptions about something you know NOTHING about, me.
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LOL... given your last sentence REALLY makes my last sentence all the more important.
You keep making assumptions about something you know NOTHING about... kind of like me talking about screen printing isn't it? Yet, I'm the a-hole?
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Oh Gilligan....I do feel for you..I do not make assumptions...I am responding to you saying stuff like..who cares if you save 40 bucks a year on tape...well anyone who runs a business does...that is how you become more profitable...it really is simple...the info you give is amazing....
but again time to quit sharing my knowledge on the open market....
sam
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I'm sure I do... but like Brandt always says "hey, this is the internet" (there, got in a shot at you Brandt, passed up one in the last post because I was trying to let bygones by bygones... you agreed we should ignore each other and then you fire away right after that... tada!)
Do what? In this very thread you took a shot at me FIRST (which is pretty much always the case). Not the other way around. You need to get your facts straight. Here is a reminder.
I'm sure you won't agree or take this the right way
I threw up a "like" graphic AFTER the fact to a post about us ignoring each other, which was already the case on this end of the fence unless you choose to address me, I don't pay attention to much you say because no offense there are far more intelligent people to take advice from on this board that know way more about business and screen printing than you do. There was no "agreement" by anyone TO ACTUALLY ignore each other though. It was a simple joke to me since its already that way until you include me in some of your BS drama freaking queen crap.
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Sam, you are running the wrong direction with your shoes tied together.
I said it's not worth the time to calculate your ROI on a 20k machine by calculating a $40/year savings. The time you spend tracking that info you lose all the savings.
There is a reason Rich Hoffman doesn't have "scotch tape" listed on the DTS's website... it's not significant enough to brag about. THAT was my only point... the same one Rich says without saying it.
You take shots at someone like me who is trying to save a buck buying slightly used and letting someone like you take that initial depreciation hit but then you complain that I don't bow to your amazing business strategy of saving $40/year on a 20k investment.
I trade on sogotrade as it's $3 a trade and I don't need all the bells and whistles you get with etrade or whoever else is out there that is double or more. I saved a couple hundred bucks a year doing so... but I don't feel the need to try and get EVERYONE on sogotrade. It's not the right fit for everyone, but it fits for me. I do it and enjoy the SMALL savings and move on. Let's be honest taking 17.5k and turning it into over 50k in a couple of years is pretty awesome, but I don't see the point in saying "and I saved $10 each trade while I was doing it". That point wouldn't have changed what I did. I'd have still gone from 17.5k to over 50k even if I had used Schwab at $30 bucks a trade.
In fact I gave a guy a tip that made him and his clients like 80k in one day... I didn't once try to tell him "if you use sogotrade you could have made an additional $50 bucks on that 80k" because that is just silly, he doesn't care if it cost him $56 bucks to make that and could have only taken him $50 bucks to make it.
See Sam... some things you are making ASSumptions on even if you think you aren't. Let's not forget you are only posting a bit of information on the "open market" so if someone only took what they read about you on this "open market" they might get the wrong impression of you as well.
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I'm sure I do... but like Brandt always says "hey, this is the internet" (there, got in a shot at you Brandt, passed up one in the last post because I was trying to let bygones by bygones... you agreed we should ignore each other and then you fire away right after that... tada!)
Do what? In this very thread you took a shot at me FIRST (which is pretty much always the case). Not the other way around. You need to get your facts straight. Here is a reminder.
I'm sure you won't agree or take this the right way
I threw up a "like" graphic AFTER the fact to a post about us ignoring each other, which was already the case on this end of the fence unless you choose to address me, I don't pay attention to much you say because no offense there are far more intelligent people to take advice from on this board that know way more about business and screen printing than you do. There was no "agreement" by anyone TO ACTUALLY ignore each other though. It was a simple joke to me since its already that way until you include me in some of your BS drama freaking queen crap.
And yet here we are still posting to each other. *sigh*
How do you say it "Cool story bro, tell me another one".
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wait, slow down a little until I go and get my popcorn. :o
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wait, slow down a little until I go and get my popcorn. :o
Man, you are too late :)
(https://static.prtst.net/asset-proxy/97ae67a498150faaa3792c01857cb5ef23cdc1f1/687474703a2f2f6172656e746569707972676f752e66696c65732e776f726470726573732e636f6d2f323031322f30392f313030307835303070782d6c6c2d62326664623661635f6c6f7a67725f6769665f636f6c6c656374696f6e5f6f665f736f6d656f6e655f656174696e675f706f70636f726e2e67696623706f70636f726e253230666967687425323067696625323033363078323430/http://arenteipyrgou.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1000x500px-ll-b2fdb6ac_lozgr_gif_collection_of_someone_eating_popcorn.gif)
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I'm sure I do... but like Brandt always says "hey, this is the internet" (there, got in a shot at you Brandt, passed up one in the last post because I was trying to let bygones by bygones... you agreed we should ignore each other and then you fire away right after that... tada!)
Do what? In this very thread you took a shot at me FIRST (which is pretty much always the case). Not the other way around. You need to get your facts straight. Here is a reminder.
I'm sure you won't agree or take this the right way
I threw up a "like" graphic AFTER the fact to a post about us ignoring each other, which was already the case on this end of the fence unless you choose to address me, I don't pay attention to much you say because no offense there are far more intelligent people to take advice from on this board that know way more about business and screen printing than you do. There was no "agreement" by anyone TO ACTUALLY ignore each other though. It was a simple joke to me since its already that way until you include me in some of your BS drama freaking queen crap.
And yet here we are still posting to each other. *sigh*
How do you say it "Cool story bro, tell me another one".
The second you stop talking about me, or talking to me you will find the issue is all cleared up.
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whiskey coming today......can not wait....going to dip into it tonight, tomorrow, sunday, then off to vegas.....
I have the smallest press....but i listen and learn and take info from the good folks on this forum that are really awesome to share THEIR hard earned info...they paved the way for me to make my life and business run smoother...I take what they say or show me and implement it into my shop and if it works i keep it, but if it doesn't then i may tweak it here or there...
and in the future, i will do the same if i am able....
its like homer said...why should he give up all the info he has worked hard on by trial and error, that costs his business money, to give to anyone else for free?
and Gilly of you keep arguing with everyone the info that we need or want will dry up because they may be like why put it out there....
sometimes its just good to hang back and listen....
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and Gilly of you keep arguing with everyone the info that we need or want will dry up because they may be like why put it out there....
(http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/2010/0107/0107-bob-barker-sea-shepherd/7189459-1-eng-US/0107-bob-barker-sea-shepherd_full_600.jpg)
sometimes its just good to hang back and listen....
Careful, I was once attacked here for basically hanging back and listening. LOL
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whiskey coming today......can not wait....going to dip into it tonight, tomorrow, sunday, then off to vegas.....
I have the smallest press....but i listen and learn and take info from the good folks on this forum that are really awesome to share THEIR hard earned info...they paved the way for me to make my life and business run smoother...I take what they say or show me and implement it into my shop and if it works i keep it, but if it doesn't then i may tweak it here or there...
and in the future, i will do the same if i am able....
its like homer said...why should he give up all the info he has worked hard on by trial and error, that costs his business money, to give to anyone else for free?
and Gilly of you keep arguing with everyone the info that we need or want will dry up because they may be like why put it out there....
sometimes its just good to hang back and listen....
I totally agree with you Rob... I guess I just find it funny that because I do offer an opinion or idea that I get blasted because "I don't know everything"... but in reality Sam says he's a business man, not a screen printer. Do you think it's might just be POSSIBLE that somewhere out there, there are a couple of business men that would look at Sam and say "wow, that guy doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about"?
That's all I'm saying. We are all here to learn, SHARE and grow. I'm here listening, I listen a LOT... I may talk a lot but I really do listen more. I have private conversations with those that do WAY better than some of these clowns. I have personal friends that run way more numbers in all aspects of life than these clowns. I'm always listening.
But as a human, I have ideas and theories. I put them out there. Like you said "if they work, keep them, if they don't modify or toss them... but DON'T STOP!"
People post computer problems in the computer section and that is an area that I have some "expertise" as it may be... I freely go in there and try to help out when I can and give what I feel is good advise. I don't always agree with everyone there, example Pierre and I don't COMPLETELY agree on which system is better... but I promise you there are no hard feelings between the two of us over the issue. On the other hand Brandt and I actually AGREE where Pierre and I disagree, but yet we can't get a long. *shrug* I still wouldn't hesitate to offer the guy a hand if he needed one. Just like Brad and I with the politics... we go at each other like cats and dogs in the private section... but I don't dislike the guy one bit... it's all just conversation and in the end I would like to think that we both shake hands and walk away just as good as we were before. Hell, Dan had a data scare and he sent me his hard drive... I quickly checked it out and found the issue (a non-issue really) and let him know ASAP to put his mind at ease. I then sent the hard drive back WITH a second hard drive that I had in stock as a 2nd back up for him all on MY dime. We traded for seps technically but guess what... I've yet to call on him for those seps... I may never have to, who knows... it's just the way good people do for each other though. I know if I ever got in a bind I would want someone to help me out if they could and if they would do it for a "future favor" then all the better.
There are other people that I have "shared" things with and expected NOTHING in return... I believe in sharing knowledge and helping as much as I can if it's not costing me anything. Others have done the same for me and MORE. I don't mention some of the names because I'm not sure they want them mentioned but I've been into a couple of shops and they have basically had a COMPLETELY open door policy with me and their inner workings. All and ZERO cost. They have shared templates (they created) and "systems" and I have tried to return what little I can. If I find a new trick, I return the favor and share it right back. My buddy locally, I can go in his shop at any given time and hang out wherever I want... watch over the artist shoulder, hang out in the production area... ask what ever I want. Hell, he often says "come around and take a look how I do this".
THAT is a community.
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Thats good Gill, maybe its the way you are typing it..LOL...like the use of the word "clowns"..its the way you are presenting it dude...
these are not clowns...they run a decorating business and they do it very very well.. I've met some of them and they have it together....i am aspiring to become on of the clowns..
Gill you may have knowledge but lately i don't even read what you write because of the drama...if you have good ideas i am missing out...
I know its hard with typing because things are taken the wrong way a lot, because there is no tone of the voice..
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I totally agree with you Rob... I guess I just find it funny that because I do offer an opinion or idea that I get blasted because "I don't know everything"... but in reality Sam says he's a business man, not a screen printer. Do you think it's might just be POSSIBLE that somewhere out there, there are a couple of business men that would look at Sam and say "wow, that guy doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about"?
The majority of screen printers are not smart businessmen. Thats why a lot of them starve and are usually begging for work.
Being a good business man is harder than being a good screen printer. The good business man will make more money than a good printer even if their work is sub par. Thats why it is smart for a good printer to partner with a good business man.
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I totally agree with you Rob... I guess I just find it funny that because I do offer an opinion or idea that I get blasted because "I don't know everything"... but in reality Sam says he's a business man, not a screen printer. Do you think it's might just be POSSIBLE that somewhere out there, there are a couple of business men that would look at Sam and say "wow, that guy doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about"?
The majority of screen printers are not smart businessmen. Thats why a lot of them starve and are usually begging for work.
Being a good business man is harder than being a good screen printer. The good business man will make more money than a good printer even if their work is sub par. Thats why it is smart for a good printer to partner with a good business man.
i am neither....that why i need help! LOL
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I totally agree with you Rob... I guess I just find it funny that because I do offer an opinion or idea that I get blasted because "I don't know everything"... but in reality Sam says he's a business man, not a screen printer. Do you think it's might just be POSSIBLE that somewhere out there, there are a couple of business men that would look at Sam and say "wow, that guy doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about"?
The majority of screen printers are not smart businessmen. Thats why a lot of them starve and are usually begging for work.
Being a good business man is harder than being a good screen printer. The good business man will make more money than a good printer even if their work is sub par. Thats why it is smart for a good printer to partner with a good business man.
i am neither....that why i need help! LOL
Same here lol
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I totally agree with you Rob... I guess I just find it funny that because I do offer an opinion or idea that I get blasted because "I don't know everything"... but in reality Sam says he's a business man, not a screen printer. Do you think it's might just be POSSIBLE that somewhere out there, there are a couple of business men that would look at Sam and say "wow, that guy doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about"?
The majority of screen printers are not smart businessmen. Thats why a lot of them starve and are usually begging for work.
Being a good business man is harder than being a good screen printer. The good business man will make more money than a good printer even if their work is sub par. Thats why it is smart for a good printer to partner with a good business man.
i am neither....that why i need help! LOL
Although it may be true as a good businessman and a poor printer you will make more money--you will be pushing crap and you will know it. If you have any sort of conscience, this won't be an enjoyable experience, IMHO. You'll be a much more convincing salesman when you know your product is good, and you'll do very well when you can honestly say it's the best available.
You just need to keep at it. Being a good businessman and a good printer involves hard work and focus, quit distracting yourself with the semantics. Figure out what your weaknesses are and work on them. Being able to ignore things that don't matter will help you focus on the things that do, there are many excellent examples posted.
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Good business men make my skin crawl because they count every bean and pinch every penny
and working for them is probably hell.
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We're a bit more tiered. Our "Business Man has 40 ys in the apparel biz and he gets it. He interfaces with Sales, Purchasing, Accounting,and Production (Me). We meet regularly and each one of us understands eachothers strengths and constraints. We never argue.
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Why not try and become a great business man as well as a great printer? It's not like either one is freaking rocket science.
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i know everything................i just hang here for the drama and entertainment
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Thats good Gill, maybe its the way you are typing it..LOL...like the use of the word "clowns"..its the way you are presenting it dude...
these are not clowns...they run a decorating business and they do it very very well.. I've met some of them and they have it together....i am aspiring to become on of the clowns..
Gill you may have knowledge but lately i don't even read what you write because of the drama...if you have good ideas i am missing out...
I know its hard with typing because things are taken the wrong way a lot, because there is no tone of the voice..
Maybe so... I guess it just gets where someone like Sam comes along and pushes, well... I push back.
I didn't have an ill thing to say about Sam up until recently. I was told quite a few things from various people about the guy (negatively) but I wasn't concerned about it. Then he just doesn't seem to stop bringing up my name (needed a new whipping boy since Shawn is "gone"). I got fed up with it and pushed back.
First encounter I can recall is when I was sharing my experience with a friend/employee in the GENERAL DISCUSSION area that betrayed me and stole my guns. He thinks I'm an a-hole for not putting them in a safe. The thing is... the guy could have easily just stolen the safe as well... they aren't impenetrable. Might have been easier to carry away all my goods if it was in one neat container vs 3 pistols and some magazines carried loosely. :) Then again maybe he wouldn't have bothered. But at the same time... I learned a HUGE thing that day... not about guns but about that employee/friend. Finding out that he was willing to abuse our relationship like that was a great thing to learn NOW vs later when it cost more than a few hand guns and a laptop.
From there it seems Sam and I have just not really agreed on some things and that has wore him thin I guess. I can respect that... but I think he should have sent me a PM or given me a phone call to tell me about it vs blasting me like he used to do to Shawn. Don't get me wrong, my feelings are FAR from hurt... but it's not good for the forum was my point.
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but it's not good for the forum was my point.
It takes two to tango, sir.
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I didn't have an ill thing to say about Sam up until recently. I was told quite a few things from various people about the guy (negatively) but I wasn't concerned about it. Then he just doesn't seem to stop bringing up my name (needed a new whipping boy since Shawn is "gone"). I got fed up with it and pushed back.
If you don't like people doing that to you, why are you doing it to others? There is a term for this....
Don't get me wrong, my feelings are FAR from hurt... but it's not good for the forum was my point.
Please take some of your own advice, not everything you seem to add to this site is good for this forum either.
Sam is clearly an ass at times, but he runs a business that is doing very well. Maybe you should try doing that rather than running your keyboard so much.
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wow that is funny Kevin..I don't remember calling you an assh*le..I remember saying it was irresponsible. those guns are now on the street....maybe LA has a lot different laws than here, but here unless you are in direct control of a weapon it must be locked....again back to being a responsible gun owner...not just leaving them laying around...
Secondly, people will talk...I am harsh at time because I expect the best out of everyone and when I see someone not being the best they can be due to laziness ( shawn ) then yeah it gets under my skin....I have nothing bad to say about you, I am saying that you are posting about stuff you do not know about ( again the $40.00 tape issue ) that was a statement about me finding more and more cost savings...and yeah I measure everything so I can ensure the people who work here have a paycheck, get a bonus, and raises...
Again Kevin you may be great at computers but you need to learn a few lessons the hard way as well vs. expecting everyone to hand you the info...again just the way i think...
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Brandt... You gonna tell me we have never had private conversations? We've covered why I have taken jabs at you from time to time... I'm really done with it. I thought that you said you wanted to be done with as well... you complained I kept posting about you and that if I stopped then there would be no more... hmm. Doesn't seem to be that way though does it?
Sam. Laws are different down here. People aren't supposed to break into your home. If you aren't being a criminal then you don't have stupid laws restricting your behavior. Yes, I paraphrased... maybe I should have said "you treated me like an a-hole" does that fit better?
My issue with the $40 tape issue was plain and simple. You said that you were going to post the "true" ROI numbers once you had them worked out and to give you a couple of weeks (again, paraphrasing)... over a month passed and I thought... hey what were those numbers (I'm a number nerd as well as a tech junky so this was going to interesting to look at). I gave you gentle reminder that you were going to post things up and you said "well, I'm still finding savings...." and talked about your $40/year tape savings.
No, I'm not knocking the $40/month savings but that isn't going to persuade anyone that this 20k is well spent because of $40/year. Again, yes, it adds up but you would have been better off saying. "Ok guys here are the numbers ... " Then you could have added "and then we just noticed that we are saving an additional $40/year on tape... that's some savings I didn't even think about or expect... pretty cool!" and I would have been right there with you 100% as I LOVE to find hidden savings on decisions I make. I just didn't think it made sense to say you were still crunching the numbers because of a $40/year savings find.
You took my comment WAY the wrong way and in typical Sam/internet forum fashion started with some trashing which I FULLY participated in. I think it has gotten extremely silly but it is what it is now... where do we go from here?
but it's not good for the forum was my point.
It takes two to tango, sir.
Absolutely right man... like I said... I felt like I got pushed, so I pushed back. Guilty as charged.
Does that mean that I'm doomed forever because my last MANY post have been about getting a better understanding between Sam and I and moving past it and leaving the Brandt drama in the past. What has been said has been said and we can't change that. I'm trying to extend the olive branch and say "maybe we had a big misunderstanding and started off on the right foot, let's try this again".
If that isn't what everyone wants then, hell... whatever will be will be... Let's lay that out there and go from there. I can not give a f*ck as much as the next guy. ;)
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Brandt... You gonna tell me we have never had private conversations? We've covered why I have taken jabs at you from time to time... I'm really done with it. I thought that you said you wanted to be done with as well... you complained I kept posting about you and that if I stopped then there would be no more... hmm. Doesn't seem to be that way though does it?
Not sure what PM's have to do with anything or how that is relivant to this conversation.
Context.... this thread has already been so much BS wtf matters now. It was time to get to the bottom of this, clearly I am not alone here with having seen enough. Going forward though in other threads, as you find yourself leaving me out of your BS you will find I wont have much to say to you.
and leaving the Brandt drama in the past. What has been said has been said and we can't change that. I'm trying to extend the olive branch and say "maybe we had a big misunderstanding and started off on the right foot, let's try this again".
Well sir what made you see the light, since just a few hours ago you were still jabbing at me. On my end I haven't given a thought about you until I see my name in another one of your clearly aimed attacks.
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How's this for some words of encouragement Rob?
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nipple tit
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How's this for some words of encouragement Rob?
dude, believe it or not this thread has made me happy again...LOL
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Brandt... that Olive Branch wasn't for you. I could give two ish's about you.
You keep doing what you're doing and keep getting what your getting. You seem happy with that and that is all that matters right.
Yep, I took some jabs at you, we all had fun with it, but like I posted in a previous thread, it's getting boring for me and so I'm really done with it.
This thread got derailed with you because I was making a point about perceived value and you can never let someone just say their piece and be done. You HAVE to have the last word.
So please... have ONE last word here on this thread in response to this and let this be done. If you want to keep going at me and I can be your new Roberto, then I guess I'll have to pack on a few pounds so you can do all the fat jokes too. ;)
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What I feel is if Sam has proven numbers on such an amazing ROI for twenty plus K then he is doing M&R a disservice by not promoting this knowledge to not only help fellow printers but also the company he respects.
But what do I know I am just an irresponsible slave oops I mean employee.
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I thought the DTS was closer to 40K? I'll have to adjust my ROI calculations if an M&R DTS machine is only in the 25K range, then maybe I can get the numbers to look more favorable. I'm doing all my ROI calculations based on a 65K machine in the Kiwo I-jet II, and the other units that I have some quotes for in the 40K range. I have not based any ROI on a 20-25K machine.
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Horton,
With regard to ROI, I have 2 words for you: rotary screw.
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Horton,
With regard to ROI, I have 2 words for you: rotary screw.
That rotary screw ain't gonna make me my money back like the DTS will. Don't get me wrong, I want one, but it's a little further down on the list. I'm thinking it will be coming with the second auto, you know the III that is coming next year? Get your chipotle burrito gift card loaded up cause I'm in the mood for a burrito or two.
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Hey Gilligan, it will ship out on Monday, our shipping/rec guy is at the texas tech/west virginia game so he took today off and I don't ship. I'm a bidness man/screen printer, not a shipping guy.
I figured you'd see this before an email or text.
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LOL... I check them all simultaneously... I'm a computer guy not screen printer. ;)
No rush... you got my last email on the topic right... need that info to hook you up in return.
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Brandt... that Olive Branch wasn't for you. I could give two ish's about you.
You keep doing what you're doing and keep getting what your getting. You seem happy with that and that is all that matters right.
Yep, I took some jabs at you, we all had fun with it, but like I posted in a previous thread, it's getting boring for me and so I'm really done with it.
This thread got derailed with you because I was making a point about perceived value and you can never let someone just say their piece and be done. You HAVE to have the last word.
So please... have ONE last word here on this thread in response to this and let this be done. If you want to keep going at me and I can be your new Roberto, then I guess I'll have to pack on a few pounds so you can do all the fat jokes too. ;)
I didn't suggest the olive branch was or wasn't for me. I suggested I give zero thought about you until you run your mouth about me. Then I am happy to drive you freaking nuts getting the last word because its freaking awesome.
Get what I am getting??? You mean like a thriving business, great employees, toys, equipment, thrilled customers, and so on? Well freak man sounds awesome. Count on MORE of that!!!
You aren't even worthy of that sort of time Kevin to call yourself the next Roberto, don't give yourself that much credit. You are fumbling through letting your shitty space and some wanna be part time screen printer determine your businesses capabilities. What a joke. That's the first real shitty thing I've said to you but bud, and you had it coming.
So how is that for last word.
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GAWD DAMN there been some harsh crap said in here today, WTF? Been some ball bag punches thrown that probably need to be worked out man to man so we can all get back on the same page. Look, I have problems from time to time with some of the jackass things that are said around here, times where I know people are full of crap and what not, but sometimes it's better to find someone to vent that frustration to rather than spilling it out on to one another. I know we all say some things (guilty as charged) that rub others the wrong way or may come off like an ass, but I think this has gone a bit far. I don't like seeing 2-3 guys that I happen to like working each others balls like a speeed bag. Some things have been said that if they were said about me it would be freaking "go time" so I think we need to get in a Friday sort of mood and do some "pologizing". And if you don't agree, you can kiss my anus, it's Friday and I gotta work Saturday and Sunday, all day. :) Gotta teach some folks how to screen print around here. I am smiling a little bit while typing this, have a good weekend everybody!!!
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I-Dot.
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I know of one sunnuvabitch in South Carolina who must be digging the hell out of this!
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I know of one sunnuvabitch in South Carolina who must be digging the hell out of this!
just froma tid bit I am aware of the sunbitch is not in SC haha. . .
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GAWD DAMN there been some harsh crap said in here today, WTF? Been some ball bag punches thrown that probably need to be worked out man to man so we can all get back on the same page. Look, I have problems from time to time with some of the jackass things that are said around here, times where I know people are full of crap and what not, but sometimes it's better to find someone to vent that frustration to rather than spilling it out on to one another. I know we all say some things (guilty as charged) that rub others the wrong way or may come off like an ass, but I think this has gone a bit far. I don't like seeing 2-3 guys that I happen to like working each others balls like a speeed bag. Some things have been said that if they were said about me it would be freaking "go time" so I think we need to get in a Friday sort of mood and do some "pologizing". And if you don't agree, you can kiss my anus, it's Friday and I gotta work Saturday and Sunday, all day. :) Gotta teach some folks how to screen print around here. I am smiling a little bit while typing this, have a good weekend everybody!!!
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/if-someone-hates-you-for-no-reason.jpg)
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Horton,
With regard to ROI, I have 2 words for you: rotary screw.
That rotary screw ain't gonna make me my money back like the DTS will. Don't get me wrong, I want one, but it's a little further down on the list. I'm thinking it will be coming with the second auto, you know the III that is coming next year? Get your chipotle burrito gift card loaded up cause I'm in the mood for a burrito or two.
Well, I hope you're ordering yours before Las Vegas, because the one on the showroom floor is coming home with me :P.
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Hey man, me and another printer from here will be in NOLA around the 14th-16th of December.
I think we want to come check out your shop if you don't mind. Let me know what works best for you.
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[/quote]
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/if-someone-hates-you-for-no-reason.jpg)
[/quote]
I like this ;)
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Horton,
With regard to ROI, I have 2 words for you: rotary screw.
That rotary screw ain't gonna make me my money back like the DTS will. Don't get me wrong, I want one, but it's a little further down on the list. I'm thinking it will be coming with the second auto, you know the III that is coming next year? Get your chipotle burrito gift card loaded up cause I'm in the mood for a burrito or two.
Well, I hope you're ordering yours before Las Vegas, because the one on the showroom floor is coming home with me :P.
Actually, someone on this very forum is taking one of those III's at the show home!!! It ain't me but I am just a little jealous.
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Horton,
With regard to ROI, I have 2 words for you: rotary screw.
That rotary screw ain't gonna make me my money back like the DTS will. Don't get me wrong, I want one, but it's a little further down on the list. I'm thinking it will be coming with the second auto, you know the III that is coming next year? Get your chipotle burrito gift card loaded up cause I'm in the mood for a burrito or two.
Well, I hope you're ordering yours before Las Vegas, because the one on the showroom floor is coming home with me :P.
Actually, someone on this very forum is taking one of those III's at the show home!!! It ain't me but I am just a little jealous.
Oh really? Now I am freaking jealous. LOL
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There is an Alpha 8 being sold close by me. Only a year old. If anyone is interested.
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I knew that Alpha 8 wasn't going to work out.....
120K is a tough sell though......
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Yeah thats alot of coin to drop and only a year later go belly up.
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I bet the salesman told them he would help find new business. ;)
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Was probably 1.5x - 2x that new....
I feel for the people that start businesses and get so wrapped up in being the biggest and the best that
they go out and buy the equipment to prove that point yet lack the actual business to support it. Lots of
examples of that unfortunately.
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Does it have an expansion? I coulda sworn the stock six head Alpha 8 went for around 100K base... I've been wrong today though.
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Yeah thats alot of coin to drop and only a year later go belly up.
120k machine isn't that hard to pay for if a shop is smart about their money. Now if the shop is a wreck financially to start with adding 120k in debt is a real bad idea for sure.