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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: inkbrigade on May 31, 2011, 03:39:55 AM
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I think Bill told me he was. I was just wondering why? I know Bill has some of his own ideas and stands by them. Although i've seen Bill debate with people on many occasion, I would NOT consider Bill a troll nor a trouble maker. I have learn some good stuff from Bill in the past. He's passionate about screen printing.
To not let someone on here because they are a trouble maker is one thing. To not let someone on here because you disagree with their opinion or don't like their personality is completely different.
I know i'm not an admin on the board. I'm not the owner and didn't put up and money or work here. BUT i AM a member of the community of this board and I would like to see Bill be able to join the discussions if he'd like to.
Just my .02
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If it's the real Bill Hood, he's on the members roll.
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He's here.
I believe Bill has taken a break from public forum posting.
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He is actually helping critique our new forum which will launch probably this week.
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Mr. Hood does indeed have a lot to offer. However, experiences have shown that his exuberance and style have lead to some dissatisfaction on other forums in the past. And thus, with heavy heart and desire to keep this place drama free, we requested that he not post here. He still has a registered account, and access to content, and members may access him via PM and board email. Those wishing to read Bill's writing can also visit him at his own Solutions Journal.
www.solutionsjournal.com (http://www.solutionsjournal.com)
Play Nice!
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He also has a forum (I believe it's his) called Screenprint group. It's still in it's infancy. He has also told me he is very busy with travel and consulting.
I'll be the first to say he and I don't see eye to eye, but I still like to see his opinions.
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However, experiences have shown that his exuberance and style have lead to some dissatisfaction on other forums in the past. And thus, with heavy heart and desire to keep this place drama free, we requested that he not post here.
Uh...wtf? I hope you reconsider this. Bill is headstrong and opinionated, but it's almost always for the benefit of printers. This is in direct contrast to the trolls that only post for the betterment of themselves.
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Exuberant style welcome. Conceited vanity whores, not. ;)
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Uh...wtf? I hope you reconsider this. Bill is headstrong and opinionated, but it's almost always for the benefit of printers. This is in direct contrast to the trolls that only post for the betterment of themselves.
I couldn't agree more.
Bill has always helped me in the past, and even though a lot of what he says goes over my head...but that's on me.
We should all strive to learn more. And I have learned a lot from Bill.
Jon
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That's not going to keep this board drama-free.
I'm not liking this... maybe I've missed something Bill might have said in the past, but I've never seen anything outright offensive or directly MEAN... like the guy who this board used to be named after used to do. If all it takes is a strong OPINION to offend people, then where does the banning end?
Bad... BAD taste in my mouth from this. You're catering to the weak.
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I actually agree with the others, I am also one of the ones that has a hard time swallowing his way of talking about others but I agree let him post. After he can be ignored if needed, one thing about him is he will always be up front and never hide behind aliases or try in any way to cause forum mayhem.
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I've gotten to know Bill over the last year and have read every post of his that's up on all of the forums. He is strong minded and I guess you can say opinionated but I dare someone to find something he's posted and prove him wrong on it. You have to take into account that everything he puts out there is supported by decades of experience, more experience than 99% of active forum members so in fact he does know what he's talking about. I understand how those who don't know him read his posts, I used to read them the same way, it comes off as abrasive but it's factual and to the point, with some opinions thrown in from time to time. There might be other ways of doing things but everything I've learned from him has made us a better shop. He's been very open to me about him not knowing all there is to know about screen printing, and he's always looking to learn something new. I've considered Bill a mentor and friend for some time now and I really appreciate how much he's reached out to us and always offered to teach me something new. We were an ordinary print shop and had plateaued with our quality and production capabilities until I stumbled upon some of his articles and books. Then after implementing a lot of the processes and controls I learned from him we became capable of printing anything as well as any shop in town, maybe better.
I say all that not in hopes that he'll be allowed to post here, but so that maybe others will see another, more closeup opinion of him that's not usually put out there.
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I also have had no problems with Bill. I've spoken with him various times, and he's always been a gentleman. I do however, still pull a squeegee instead of push, but then, I rarely have to print. I for one would appreciate his posts.
Steve
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I do however, still pull a squeegee instead of push
LOL. With you there. Pushing a squeegee, at least for me, is like trying to ride a bicycle backwards.
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I'm sure others here have noted that I tend to give Bill a hard time every now and then but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate his devotion to better printing and the valuable information he shares quite concisely, completely and freely on forums.
I actually like Bill's dedication to all the variables and insistence that others do the same and I feel that most of the distaste towards his posts comes from a sometimes less than ideal delivery of his message. The times he's offended or annoyed me were unintended I'm sure and I feel he always means well and genuinely wants others to improve their print process.
That said, I'm not keen on pre-emptively uninviting potential members who can steadily contribute with minimal drama. But if the fella has enough stigma from previous forum interactions that the admin's feel he's prone to rile up other members and steer things off topic than a request not to post doesn't seem too terrible. Exclusivity is what has kept this place clean so far.
Bill's posts, when he's posting, can be found on the M&R Forums and the man is fairly prolific in his writings and media available on the internet. Indeed, he has enough "exuberance" to fill up many a website. If this ain't one of them then so be it I guess. I seem to have a bit of a love/hate relationship with the man, so I don't really know how I feel about it.
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Exuberant style welcome. Conceited vanity whores, not. ;)
Like your new avatar ;)
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...I had an experience where Bill and another member at the M&R forum were mocking anyone that doesnt use only rollerframes and high-tension screens, and doing so in a very immature way. I found it VERY offensive to those of us that run our business under different procedures.
...That being said, I still would also like to hear and read what he has to say and offer, its those contrasting ideas that spawn ingenuity in our industry. I agree that his "I can do no wrong" style of delivery can be a bit harsh, but I think we are all adult enough here to see thru that.
...I certainly wouldnt lump him into the same category of the person whose existence essentially brought this forum to life. Yknow, now that I think about it, how ARE we supposed to refer to said person around here? I feel kinda silly dancing around his name(s).
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...I certainly wouldnt lump him into the same category of the person whose existence essentially brought this forum to life. Yknow, now that I think about it, how ARE we supposed to refer to said person around here? I feel kinda silly dancing around his name(s).
"He who shall not be named"
Or
Hwsnbn
Which is so easy to pronounce....
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I've also read many (not all) of Mr Hood's posts and I have found most of them useful. However, I do think that at times Bill can go over the top and sometimes will dig in his heels and that reflects on him negatively at times.
I guess my honest opinion is that his posts can often compete with the well being of a forum, like a catalyst to one discussion or a single argument. Personally I have no ill will towards him but I really wonder whether he is a benefit or a hinderance.
I dont want to be one to judge but i do have mixed feelings about him or any one person overwhelming the atmosphere here.
Then again, some people might deserve being given the benefit of the doubt
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Bill is good people, and I'd like to see him here.
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The difference between BH and RB as loosely translated from Justice Potter Stewart:
"I don't know what obscene is, but I know it when I see it.".
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Although most of Bill's posts are half a book in length, I have found him to be a guy who is simply passionate in the,"art", of the screen printing process. There have been posts where I felt applications in day to day, get the job done, situations were being over looked by very technical, sometimes over the top processes. But, it's also not rocket science to see that his intension is to put information out there that you can slowly integrate into your, day to day, processes. Bill, unlike a lot of other consultants out there, will actually take the time, any time, to email, pm, or call you if he sees that you really need help with something that he can help you with. I know there were a few times when I had posted on another forum and got some outrageous responses from some, and then Bill would have a realistic answer. Everyone that I have met in my short, yet growing career as a print shop owner, feel's that their way is the best, or the only way to do things. I really think that the end product/result of your process is where the proof is. What works for one printer, or shop, may not work for the other, as long as everyone keeps the highest standards in the broadest spectrum, and keeps their customers happy, I feel you will all enjoy success. If you feel his post offends you, trust me, he is cool enough of a guy to personal message about the topic and watch the philosophical wall turn into a door that Bill will certainly open for you, and I bet you will find him very helpful.
Personally, I thank you Bill and appreciate you, your posts, and the personal advice that you have given me for my company. There are quite a few other guys out there I'd like to thank as well, such as Alan, from SRI, always being a bud and someone I can count on when I'm in a pinch for advice, Rich Hoffman who has given my wife and I great advice, sometimes, I didn't take it at first, but then kicked myself in the can, the guy really cares about the people that work hard in and for this industry. Dave Filip who has given me great advice and made himself available for advice on my press adjustments recently, thanks Dave. My bud Patrick from Real Thread, thanks for helping me get started with w/b printing man! There are quite a few others, the point I'm making is that as much as a lot of people would like to make a competition out of things, when printers from around the country help each other out, they all make each other better, everyone always has something else to learn, that's for sure! Thanks for the online communities that want to stay drama free, and I look forward to more educational posts!
Mike
Evolutionary Screen Printing & Embroidery LLC.
Lakeland Florida
www.evolutionaryscreenprinting.com (http://www.evolutionaryscreenprinting.com)
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We have a phrase in my shop we use whenever something goes wrong and we're caught having to Macguyver up something ridiculous: "Killing Mr. Hood".
Its funny because we imagine the conniption Bill would have if he witnessed some of the $hit we've had to pull over the years.
That said, while I don't always agree with Mr. Hood (I don't always agree with ANYONE, nor does anyone, I think), I appreciate his deep knowledge and passion and always enjoy reading what he has to say.
Personally, I think it is a bit heavy handed to prevent his posting simply based on what MIGHT happen. P has an issue where he is too lenient at times . . . I think this is the other side of the pendulum.
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I've yet to see a belligerent forum member able to be recalled retroactively.
Except for maybe SicGraphix. That guy was hilarious.
There was one thread on the M&R boards where a guy, Scrimshaw I think
asked Bill if he could see a sample of this famed one-hit white, to see what
he was aiming for, and what was really possible. Bill tore him a new one just
for asking. That's bullshit. You don't purport something to the Nth degree and
then criticize when asked for proof.
Drop the underbase and print everything on 83 mesh with a 400 micron stencil.
Not the best advice for newbies.
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Bill does the one thing that nobody can stand.. he tells you what you're doing wrong, how to fix it and do it correctly.
for some reason, owners have a really hard time being told what to do and would rather argue that their way works just fine than accept change.
Get over that, and Bill is one, if not the single largest contribution to this industry with his teachings.
I can easily say that 50% of what I know and do is in direct reflection to Bills advice over the last 11 yrs of our friendship. I may not see eye-to-eye with all he says but I'll be damned that when I take and use his advice, it works better!
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Sounds like someone should do up a poll?
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I hope no one takes this the wrong way.
I am on this forum because I have friends here. Or at least people I call friends. And to help the newbies.
Lord knows I got a lot of help from a screen print forum.
Now I know that this does open the door for everyone to tell me how bad I am. Is Bill really that much worse?
He just knows more words than I do.
None of us like being told what to do, even when asking for help.
None of us will ever agree on how to do everything.
And if I like it or agree with it or not, I’m always ready to listen to a view different than mine. That helps me a lot in the ways I think about things.
Banning or self banning will always be a double edged blade.
This one thing in itself just shows we will never always agree on everything.
If he breaks forum rules than toss him.
Other than that it is just his view.
And of course he is old and loves to talk and type. I’ve got the old and talking part down…but hate to type
And can’t spell for the most part.
I go so far as to tell every jock coming up though school that one day You will need some of that stuff.
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Seems to me, the problem with the OLD (TSPMB) board wasn't "a person who won't be named"..people could be banned, or ignored. If they were banned so be it. The problem arose when he CONTROLED it and it became his and his ways, EVERYONE else was banned. There was no Control of the forum. There is now. NO BANS, or Exclutions unless warranted. The control of the forum is up to the "Head Guys"...they do their job, everything is smooth. Banning can be appropriate, but a sin should be commited..My 2 cents
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I found this interesting and kinda goes along with different views on things.
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/06/selling-nuts-to-squirrels.html (http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/06/selling-nuts-to-squirrels.html)
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Seems to me, the problem with the OLD (TSPMB) board wasn't "a person who won't be named"..people could be banned, or ignored. If they were banned so be it. The problem arose when he CONTROLED it and it became his and his ways, EVERYONE else was banned. There was no Control of the forum. There is now. NO BANS, or Exclutions unless warranted. The control of the forum is up to the "Head Guys"...they do their job, everything is smooth. Banning can be appropriate, but a sin should be commited..My 2 cents
Well said, Bill.
I'm against any and all censorship, period. I don't even like it when it auto-censors dirty words. I put up with it in these private forums, because it's ultimately up to the owners what the forum should be about, not me... but frankly I find the idea that someone can decide what I should see and hear far more offensive than anything anyone can post. (Even SicGrafix)!
Are-Double-ewe-Bee (stop pussyfooting and just let us SAY it... I can't even type it without your stupid auto-correct...) was damaging to TSPMB. More than just a troll, he was almost as bad as an all-out hacker. I totally understand not letting him here just because of that. But now someone's started a LIST of people not allowed to post? In the words of Han Solo, "I have a bad feeling about this."
Not
Good
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Seems to me, the problem with the OLD (TSPMB) board wasn't "a person who won't be named"..people could be banned, or ignored. If they were banned so be it. The problem arose when he CONTROLED it and it became his and his ways, EVERYONE else was banned. There was no Control of the forum. There is now. NO BANS, or Exclutions unless warranted. The control of the forum is up to the "Head Guys"...they do their job, everything is smooth. Banning can be appropriate, but a sin should be commited..My 2 cents
Well said, Bill.
I'm against any and all censorship, period. I don't even like it when it auto-censors dirty words. I put up with it in these private forums, because it's ultimately up to the owners what the forum should be about, not me... but frankly I find the idea that someone can decide what I should see and hear far more offensive than anything anyone can post. (Even SicGrafix)!
Are-Double-ewe-Bee (stop pussyfooting and just let us SAY it... I can't even type it without your stupid auto-correct...) was damaging to TSPMB. More than just a troll, he was almost as bad as an all-out hacker. I totally understand not letting him here just because of that. But now someone's started a LIST of people not allowed to post? In the words of Han Solo, "I have a bad feeling about this."
Not
Good
I feel the same way and could not agree more. Great post!!!!!!!
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It's always good to know both sides of the story, and I was lucky enough to get that today. I have to say, there may be more facts to the matter than I was privy to. I found out that there may be reasons that this decision may be a good one for the admins of this board, even if it may not appear to be a good one for the users.
So while I still think punishment before a crime is committed maybe seems a little harsh, I think if we really want this board to succeed, we should give the admins the benefit of the doubt on this one. From experience they know it may be more hassle than just "drama" that they would face. And that's all I'm going to say about that. :-X
On censorship... we need to remember that this is a privately-owned board, there's no reasonable expectation of Constitutional rights, so we have to put up with certain rules if we are to remain a civilized community. If we don't like it, we can always go. I intend to stay.
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Mutual admiration society..I agree with Command Z...It is a privately owned site...So you follow the rules.
I dont think I want to be a member of a private site, that would accept me...Lololol
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99 out of 100 times, this place gives me the answers and information I'm looking for. This board is just fine. If it ain't broke...
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I say we invite Bill and get on with life.
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It's always good to know both sides of the story, and I was lucky enough to get that today. I have to say, there may be more facts to the matter than I was privy to. I found out that there may be reasons that this decision may be a good one for the admins of this board, even if it may not appear to be a good one for the users.
Now there are two forums that takes care of things in the background for the good of its members.
Many many things are not always as they seem.
Thats all that has to be said to me.
Thank You
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I say we invite Bill and get on with life.
+1
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I mentioned this to someone privately earlier, and it's something I have to pull out once in a while with my own employees. Plain and simple, this is not a democracy. we all have our opinions, but only a few make the final choice, and it's theirs to make.
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Frog send me a PM if you like and we can discuss.
tp
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There was one thread on the M&R boards where a guy, Scrimshaw I think
asked Bill if he could see a sample of this famed one-hit white, to see what
he was aiming for, and what was really possible. Bill tore him a new one just
for asking. That's bullshit. You don't purport something to the Nth degree and
then criticize when asked for proof.
Yes, that was me.
In a nut shell I asked Bill if I could see a sample of the one hit white he so often spoke of. As I said then, many different people have a different opinion of what acceptable white coverage is. I believe he told me I would have to pay for shipping. I said no problem. I did say that I wanted to see a sample of a decent size print as opposed to small text. Something to show a normal area of print coverage. It could have been a 3"x3" square on a t shirt rag for all I cared. I was basically ridiculed for asking for a "custom printed one off shirt". Told that I refuse to do things the right way in my operation along with a few other insults. I was even PM'ed by him to respond back to the thread when I stopped posting. I was sincerely interesting in buying and trying some of his ink. Whatever, water under the bridge. I'm sure neither of us lost any sleep over it.
That said, I personally do not think very highly of him. However, I think he does have a great deal of knowledge. I also think he should be allowed to post here until he shows that he is ruffling peoples feathers and/or bringing down the integrity of this forum.
Just my thoughts.
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The only two cents I will offer on this subject,
I was PM messaged on the subject and asked for my opinion. (I will NOT reply to this post.)
Bill is an industry veteran, has much more experience and know how than myself..I am not ashamed to admit it. However after a long period of time dealing with him on my previous forum project that was a BETA for my upcoming network...we had to many instances where matters of OPINION became "personal". This was an issue not only for me , but MANY of my boards members. Ultimately MANY of the other industry professionals I was trying to court to my site rejected my "open format" as they clearly objected to his presence. While I allowed him to stay , they left and so in essence my forum members lost out on the support that these professionals could of offered. I admit that it was a mistake, will not be repeated.
In the end it was my forum members who asked me to ban him. There were many reasons , but mostly it was a simple matter of him chastising others , while at the same time claiming to be the victim of abuse. When I made attempts to make it clear that the drama was not wanted, and needed to stop I was given the riot act in retaliation, sent email rants that required hours to read, and even threatened me with a lawsuit....Needless to say , that was the last straw and I made is ban PERMANENT! for ANY future sites that are in the works. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when others asked me to keep him away. I stated to those people that until I have a reason, I host an open format where all are welcomed. He burned his own bridge, not just on my site...but several others including the old forums. So there is a LONG history here.
Now I have my personal opinions about his ban here, but this is not my site..I am a guest of Andy's here. But I for one respect his choice on this matter, and will clearly state that if this decision is reversed, much like the professionals that chose to leave my last forum....I too will make my presence here less noticeable. Much like some others in this industry (un-named but well known) there is simply no place that they can be made welcome without it destroying the quality of the forum. Healthy debate is one thing, I love a good thread that offers substance and stays on the topic..but some people like him refuse to honor that concept...which again is too bad, because as I opened this comment with ....he has allot experience to offer.....That is my 2-cents worth, and I do not apologize for my opinion.
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While I allowed him to stay , they left and so in essence my forum members lost out on the support that these professionals could of offered.
I do have to admit that that was the very reason I never really posted or read the M&R board.
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I am a guest of Andy's here.
As I said in your introduction thread, not of Andy's but of Andy's and his two partners, Pierre, and Dan.
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