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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Printhouse on October 23, 2012, 12:10:15 PM
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I know that there is a vast knowledge on this site so I thought I would ask if anyone could take a look at this EBAY link and give me some feedback. I am currently running 2 manual presses and looking to move into an entry level auto that does not break the bank. My bread and butter jobs are 1-3 color. I rarely do more than 4 colors but do have the 8/8 manual if I need too. I found this 4 color 8 station American Rototex auto that is approx 4 hours from my house. While I would love to have a 6 color I just have not found one local yet. I searched the other American threads and they seem to focus on the other models as opposed to this one. Any info or advice would be awesome! I feel that I could make a deal on this press for a reasonable amount less then the auction price. I thought worse case is I could do a white print, flash, white print, flash then 2 colors. That would cover 90 percent is not more of my orders. My typical orders have been growing and while I only do about 5-7 orders per week they have been averaging from 50 up to 400-500 lately. I am getting larger orders each month. I was also looking into an older Gauntlet or something like that. It just seems that for very little investment this may be a clean, well maintained press. Any info from you guys would be greatly appreciated!
Here is the EBAY link...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOMATIC-AMERICAN-ROTOTEX-4-COLOR-8-STATION-SCREENPRINTING-MACHINE-/330815556586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0624cbea (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOMATIC-AMERICAN-ROTOTEX-4-COLOR-8-STATION-SCREENPRINTING-MACHINE-/330815556586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0624cbea)
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One concern I did have was that I am doing more and more discharge printing now and if I am thinking right you may now be able to stop the squeegee on the flood side of the stroke... Not sure how big of a deal this may be.
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You will not be able to stop in the flood mode but if the press runs well this is a great price!
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Do a search on this site of exactly all of that, we've covered it in depth before. They are great presses,
and yes you can stop them flooded. Sorry I don't have the time to expound further.
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there was one on DS the other day for 3500.00 too. . .
and oh by the way -I have a pristine gauntlet 6/8 for sale. . .if interested. . .
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PM me any info on the Gauntlet... that is actually my first choice for a used entry level machine right now. I have found a few that were pretty worked over but if I could find a nice one I would be all over it.
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That's a really old machine. You'll want to be sure it works and that you can get parts. GPI international will probably have them.
Steve
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Ace Hardware has most everything.
Individual heads can be stopped flooded by turning the stop cam
180 degrees. Not the most user friendly in terms of switching back and
forth but it is possible.
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Hey Printhouse, def do a search here. I made a thread on American auto's in general as a bump up auto for manual shops. I'm still looking for one that's local enough myself. You can get these as cheap as a grand but condition varies. This one looks very clean, but hard to tell from the flash on the pics. Get better pics and go for it if it looks good, no problem paying more for a good condition machine...but you'll have to beat me to it. Nah, just kidding, MI is too far.
Real quick - I have a Cameo and Tempo flatstock press in our shop right now. The Rototex printheads are similar to the Cameo - fixed angle on squeegee and flood, wrench for every adjustment, very basic mechanism for the carriage, the "Model T" of screen printers if you will. Then the Arrow textile presses are a step up, share a head design with the Tempo flatstock and are a little fancier with a chopper style assy and adjustable print and flood angle. The Arrows are like a lesser Centurian with the printheads on the outside of the carousel white the Rototex is from the inside out.
If you have the room get a Centurian, they were the cadillacs of AWTs line it seems but they're footprints are all about 16' plus.
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that press is in really nice condition and cheaper than a manual. very difficult to find them that nice..seems like a no brainer if you need one with those specs. if it was closer to me i would buy it.plus you need no air..
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I spoke to the gu yin detail last night. I might make the 3.5 hour ride up to his place to see it run before he tears it down thisw week. I think I can get it very reasonable at this point and I am very intersted in moving foward with it. I like the no air part also.
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good decision..
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Well... I missed out on it. I was all set to make an offer today and he accepted a offer this afternoon for $1800. I huess the seach will continue.
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Well, I just got an e-mail from the owner that states that he thinks the buyer was a scam. He is unable to get through to them via E-mail or Phone and they have not made a deposit for it. I think I can make a deal on it. Not sure if I go for the $1800 he accepted or try and get it down just a hair more.
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Having already "lost" it once, what's it worth to you not to lose it?
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Very true!
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If it's as clean in and out as it looks in those pics and only hours away just take it at that price man.
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Well I head out at 3 am tomorrow morning to pick this press up! I am very excited to get it home. Double checked the wiring today at the shop and all is set to go.
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Congratulations. I loved my old Rototex 2.
Print size is pretty large as well.
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Congratulations. I loved my old Rototex 2.
Print size is pretty large as well.
Sean, where the hell did you find one of those with the squeegeelizers? I've never seen a Roto or an Arrow so far with it. I'd snap one up in a heartbeat if I did.
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The 2 was the machine with air. Some of the Multiprinters had it too.
My old one is out in Missouri or somewheres.
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Your going to love that little press.
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We are on the way home with it. It needs some going through and cleaning and greasing everything but over all it is all there and he said it functioned well before he tore it down last night.
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Well.... this guy made it sound like he was running this thing daily and that he was moving from his current location to a new one where this would not fit. When we got there this was in a pole barn behind his house. He had already tore it down but cont. to act like he had been running it. In reality this thing has not been run in a long time. We put a couple of the heads on it today and it powers up and when you hit the independent head controls for a test print the head just keeps cycling the squeegee and flood bar. All the heads we install do this so I know it is not just a bad switch on a head. For some reason the indexing motor is not being given a single that the print stroke is complete and that the table fork can lower and the table motor to turn. I have no schematic which is making things that much more fun! Anyone that can source a manual or a schematic for this thing would be my new best friend!
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AWT-GPI. You'll need the serial. No serial and they'll have to get pics and charge for engineering time to figure out which schematic is yours. They will want to charge you for the schematic either way but, if you are buying some parts or talk nice, will email one for free often.
Parts from them as well or Aero, Bill is a good dude and bought "Rick's Crazy Field 'o Parts" recently, inheriting what is presumably the largest collection of spares for Americans in existence.
I'm just talking out my arse here, but, is there a dummy plug or anything that you might need to bypass a safety on the heads? It would make sense that you could independent print a head but no indexing if the safety was flipped. The idea might've been you undo a safety cable and get in there between the arms to test print and make adjustments and don't want the machine to index on you under any circumstances while you are in there. Just an idea.
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I will contact AWT this Monday with my serial number. I just cannot figure out while after the test print cycle it does not stop..... Just keeps right on cycling that head. The sensor switch is working correctly per multi meter. And this is each head.
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The guy that I bought this from called tonight and he claimed that with a load on the squeegee and flood bar that the continuous cycling problem would happen. He claims that as soon as there is a load on them will not do it. I think my table issue has something to do with the head position sensors.... I am sure if the computer thinks even one of those heads are down it will not let it rotate. I think I need to make sure I have those set all in the correct position.
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Wiring schematic just arrived via email..... Back to trouble shooting what is up with this thing. I am not sure but I think if it thinks any head is down that it will not allow power to the table. First step is to make sure all the head position wire are correct. With several head off the press I may have to connect the wires that are hanging free.
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My press had one head that would do that. I can't recall how I fixed it though.
You are correct in that the machine won't index while the head was cycling.
Does each head have a test print button on it? Or are you controlling from the panel?
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Each head has independent test print buttons as well as the main control panel. I found that the micro switches that show the end position of the print heads were stuck on almost all the heads from not being used. We freed them up and lubed them and now for they stop after one cycle. I can easy see how to rotate that cam 180 degrees to get it to stop at the front to have the screen flooded. Now I am going through everything to figure out why we have no power to the table indexing section. Following the schematic I think I have some ideas. Several small relays and power supplies run a lot of things on the table system so I will systematically start going through everything one by one. Getting closer. When all said and done i should know this press really well. I will have to take a pic but I have one had that has a front mount that is different front the rest and appears to be swing up or something. It has cam locks on the side of it. Did your press have anything like that. It also has holes in the arms of the head like something was mounted there.
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Yeah, I thought all I had to do was manually trigger the follower switch a bunch of times.
Sounds like you know what you're doing, so I'm sure you'll have this beast up in no time.
RE: no power to the indexer, check and make sure that the "programmer", a plastic piece
with a bunch of micro switches on the Geneva drive, is in the right position. If it hasn't cycled
all the way through (IE from moving, etc.) it won't start a new index cycle. You have to manually
turn the belt/pulley/drive system and get back to the beginning.
Your odd head doesn't sound familiar, but I'd bet it's to get a flash in there. We would lift the
head up (them suckers is heavy) and block it.
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When all said and done i should know this press really well.
That's worth it's weight in gold. Not only are you going to end up with a decent auto at a silly low price, but the elbow grease you're putting in will save you thousands on tech calls and down-time later when something doesn't work and you can trouble shoot it in your head because you know the machine inside and out.
Congrats on the purchase. I love digging into, cleaning up, and fixing new-to-me equipment.
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My goal is to getting it running and then take one head at a time completely apart.... I want to bead blast all the metal parts and shot peen all the aluminum parts then spray everything in new paint. My good friend is next door to my shop and owns a hot rod restoration company. We can spray everything in his booth. This will give me a good chance to lubricate everything properly and replace any work parts and also allow me to know how the heads function for future reference. Tomorrow we have to find out why we are not getting the correct signals to the indexing side of things. Today we found 6 of 8 micro switches on the head were froze up. We freed and lubed them and now the heads cycle and stop as they should for each independent test print. I am hoping when we narrow it all down it is something simple. I am hoping to get an owner of one of these from Florida to open his control panel, which only takes turning a key, and tell me what all is lit up on his computer when he first powers it up.
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Well.... today we are going to take a blown up schematic and tape it to the wall. Starting at the plug we are going to start tracking and testing each wire, breaker, switch.... in order. As each section checks OK it will be highlighted in green. Anything questionable will be orange. At some point we are going to find why this thing has no power to the indexing motor. I will not give up until I print a tee on this thing!
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Did you check the "controller"? It would be in braking mode and hence cutting power to the motor.
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I am working through things now.. Had to run some design samples out this morning now onto this press! I have to figure out why I have no white power light on the panel when I turn it on yet power to the heads.... I am not sure that white power light should ever go out for any reason!
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Ok..... The first thing I did today was head to staples and have them print out a 26 X 38 inch schematic. I was tired of putting the multimeter down to pick up that tiny schematic. I thumbtacked it to e wall and was able to just glance up at it. I got in touch with the press doctor, Ed, down in Florida who worked for American for many years. He was awesome and was able to lead me to what led lights should be lit on the computer. After some more metering we found the 24 volt power supply was not putting anything out, which literally feeds half the components. Hopefully grainger will have one in the morning!
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Hope that does it!
As a component I've heard that transformers are pretty robust though, so maybe check the incoming if
you haven't.
Are you lucky enough to have the keys to your machine?
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you know rick fuque at rpm probably still has used american parts as well. i know at one time he refurbed them.. he has a wealth of knowledge about them also. super nice guy and i bet if you called he would help you out..also the press doctor down in florida is a american expert tech..
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Yeah, Ed is amazing.... No schematic in front of him and can pretty much recall the wire numbers off the top of his head. My lock is missing from the control panel and I have no key for the side panels. I was planning on all new locks during the refurb. If all goes and the press runs the refurb of the first head will begging tomorrow.
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Ordered the 24 volt power supply today, a whopping $46 shipped! Ordered the paint to match the original blue and took detailed pics and notes to start taking the first head apart for rebuild. Once broke down verging will go to the parts cleaner then the aluminum parts will be shot preened and the steel parts bead blasted. The covers will be painted the original blue and the screen hangers are going to be black. Luckily we can take everything next door to my friends paint booth. We are taking the entire base down on a fork lift to spray the base and table later this week.
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Like painting a car red so it will go faster?
While you're at it, replace the AC head drive motors with DC so you can control the speed.
Probably the one downfall with these machines. We used to swap out the pulley's/belts for
a slower print speed on super heavy inks. I entertained the idea of putting in variable pulleys
at one point.
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That would be nice to have dc motors up there on the heads. I really like how simple this press is. If you ever wanted an entry level press at a good cost and easy to maintain this sure fits the bill.
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Printhouse IIRC, the machine that you picked up looked pretty clean in the photos, did they use solvent ink or epoxies with this machine? I am having a hard time thinking of why you would need to use abrasives to remove dirt and grease and maybe some dried ink. When I got my Arrow, I had the same sort of restoration project in mind, then I started using it for printing. Not that I don't intend to restore it eventually, but to quote my dad, "It don't hurt the runnin' of it none." Of course I cleaned it enough to use, but not restored to showroom like I had in my head.
Your heads are single speed? Don't they have a variable pulley on them? That's the way that my older flatstock presses work. if not, I would recommend looking at that before trying to upgrade to the dc motor + controller. The way they work is the motor is mounted on a hinge that allows the shaft to move towards and away from the gearbox so that it will expand and contract the pulley when you adjust the height of the motor. A used motor control for one of my heads is like $200 and I don't think that matching motor is any less expensive.
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The biggest thing is every metal knob and thead is somewhat finely coated with rust and corrosion. I actually think I am going to throw them all in a media tumbler this week. I just have time to kill waiting on my power supply which is not going to be here until Monday so I thought why not clean it up and paint it while I am waiting!
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Ah, that makes sense. The machine that I have has a coating of dried spray tack that I am constantly removing. Thank goodness for WB tack and pallet tape!
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I just bought WB tack, this press will not see spray!
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Slow day printing wise so I broke one of the head completely down. I took each of the steel parts home to the blast cabinet and cleaned them up. All the bolts, nuts, screws and washers went into the tumbler. The painted main body is prepped to be hit with the da and made ready for paint. Went through all the bearings and wear points to check them out. Found a couple of the rubber motor mounts broke and will replace them. Drive chain soaking right now...... Hopefully I will be spraying all the parts on Saturday and Sunday and hoping to start reassembly early next week. I plan to d this with each of the four heads over the next month or so. I will snap some pics from here on out.
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The only thing that wore out on mine was the Geneva drive. Not sure if yours works on the same principle
or not, but I was told it's common to see these break. Mine had been welded and broken, welded and broken.
Ingeniously simple design, but the stresses are unbelievable.
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Heck out of the four heads I had one with the chain tensioner actually on correctly and one that it was missing completely. At least I found all the parts in a box. I should know this press pretty well by the time I actually get to run it. I wish I could find a owners manual.
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Well after replacing a faulty 24 volt power supply we now have the entire press running. It appears that the dwell timer relay is bad and a new one is on its way. I also have to trouble shoot timing the indexing and the print heads. It should not index with the head in the down position but it is. With how sticky all the switches were I will check all the heads up position switches tomorrow. All the large panels went to the paint shop today for clean up and paint. Mocking up all new stickers for it tonight.
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I thought I would give a quick update on this press! I have not had a lot of time to mess with it between being busy printing and also flying at my real job about 72 hours per week. All of the major panels have been re painted now and are waiting for the new graphics to go on them. The press is now running except the dwell timer being out which should be replaced next week. My hope is to get the base cleaned up and painted early next week then move it into its final location for set up. I may see about the price of having Ed, The Press Doctor, to come up from Arkansas and heklp with the final set up. New squeegee rubber is going in tomorrow. The number 1 head has been compltely stripped down, cleaned, blaster and repainted and reassembled. Just waiting on the new registration grid stickers to put the final touches on it. I iwll snap some pics later this afternoon.
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I thought I would give a quick update on this press! I have not had a lot of time to mess with it between being busy printing and also flying at my real job about 72 hours per week. All of the major panels have been re painted now and are waiting for the new graphics to go on them. The press is now running except the dwell timer being out which should be replaced next week. My hope is to get the base cleaned up and painted early next week then move it into its final location for set up. I may see about the price of having Ed, The Press Doctor, to come up from Arkansas and heklp with the final set up. New squeegee rubber is going in tomorrow. The number 1 head has been compltely stripped down, cleaned, blaster and repainted and reassembled. Just waiting on the new registration grid stickers to put the final touches on it. I iwll snap some pics later this afternoon.
all I know is that if there are no pictures, it did not happen!!!
WE WANT PICTURES, WE WANT PICTURES!
good luck and keep us posted. It is a good read! Thanx for taking the time to put it up (did I mention there were pictures missing?) :)
pierre
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Let me see what I have on my phone!
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I don't have a lot of pics but here are a few!
This first one shows two things... frist off, the fine rust that is coating just about everything! Second off, the one weird head that I thought was to fluip up and move a flash under but the way it is constructed it does not flip up. It is more like it is to adjust off contact or sonething!
The other pics just show the parts after they went home to the bead blaster. Tomrrow I will take pics of the big panels and covers after being repainted and the head back together with the new semi-satin black parts!
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Lookin' good!
I have a question about that wiring diagram you got. I am about to email techsupport@gpiparts.com with my serial to request a diagram for my multiprinter, is that all I need to do? Did you have to pay for it? Is that the right email address?
It appears that the previous owner pulled some of the wires from their places in the control box for unknown reasons and I want to be sure that I am hooking them back up in the right places. They specifically unhooked the double print and double index switches. Not all of the double print switches though oddly.
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They were great to deal with. I just gave them the S/N off of mine I believe. I ended up blowing the schematic up at staples to a poster and laminated it so I could trace the wires one at a time and green out the ones we found that were fine. I have been pretty busy printing this past 2 weeks so I hope to get back on this thing this week and get all the parts ordered that I need to replace.
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Here are a couple of pics from this week. The first refurbed head is goign back together but I am waiting to get the new registration grids before final assembly. Also you can see the covers and side panels have been sanded down and repainted.
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Hey Printhouse.... what's the status on your Rototex? I just picked up a 4 head 8 station from the local auction house and did a search to find you have been refurbishing one. Mine was on 4 pallets but it looks like it is all there. I contacted GPIparts for any info I could get from them and I hope to get it going one of these days soon. It also came with a big a$$ flash unit, looks like it would take 16 bulbs and runs on 3 phase. I don't have a clue about this thing so if anyone has any info on it give me a shout. The printer was packed pretty good with the small parts in boxes and the newspapers used for packing were dated Feb. 1995 and from New Jersey....... The guy that consigned it at the auction said it was running 2 years ago..... for some reason I have my doubts about that. Oh well, it was CHEAP.
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They made an 8 station version of this? I think that it might be a good idea to make an American *.* Auto restoration megathread or something. I'm slowly doing a working restoration of a Multiprinter myself. I will be uploading some vids, or at least pictures, of the parts that I have taken apart and cleaned for those who are like I was when I was trying to find out more about these machines when I was considering buying one.
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We have been pretty busy so working on ours was slow for awhile. We have a relay timer out we believe. It sets the dwell time for the ndexer. I am ordering a new one this week for aero-inc. Bill is a super guy to deal with. The main base is going to the paint booth next door on Monday to be restored back to a nice cream. The heads on mine had just about every micro switch sticking periodically so they will be replace this week also. I have the full schematic if you would like it. Now that I have restored the number one head I know the parts pretty darn well and would be happy to help answer any questions. I have really learned a ton about these this past few months. The simplicity is very appealing to me and for the type of printing I do it will fit in great. Mine is a 4/8 also. I am looking for more parts to make it a 6/8 eventually. I love this press for the money I have in it.
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I bolted the 4 heads back on it at noon today and sent my serial number to GPI so I'm hoping to get a schematic from them, but if you have one on an efile that would be great. I might be picking your brain from time to time if you don't mind... overall mine seems to be in pretty good shape but looks can be deceiving. But for an 87 model (I think) it's ok.
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There is not much to them. Mine needed a lot of little things replaced like the rubber dampers for the motors.
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I looked through my stuff and found that I do have the schematics and some documentation for
an Auto-Rototex 2. Should be the same as the regular rototex, just with air.
Gladly send it to someone with the caveat that the scan it and post it online somewhere.
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I would be more than happy to do that. I think that these presses are great and could help out a lot of printers that can use a basic level press to move into the auto world.
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LarryK.... PM me your email and I can forward you the schematic right away.
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Schematic is on its way! Let me know if you have any questions. I blew mine up at staples to the size of a poster. I then started at the plug and checked each wire and connection with a multimeter. As they checked out I highlighted them in green. I have this schematic just about memorized!