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Heat Seal - Heat Press - Whatever you want to call it! => General Heat Seal => Topic started by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 01:32:27 PM

Title: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 01:32:27 PM
Hey guys, I'm getting ready to purchase a vastex vacuum pallet tomorrow and was hoping for suggestions on
registration guides for multicolor prints. (I want to try my hand at plastisol and water-based heat transfers)

I was thinking of fabricating my own using razor blade thin metal strips and screwing it down into the holes on the pallet. Two at the top and one at the side. Kind of a three point registration. Any suggestions?

Oh and would you guys recommend using my temperature controlled flash unit to flash the inks? That way, not having to run it down the dryer, will eliminate the whole registration issues because I won't have to reset the paper position for the next print stroke.

Thanx
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: Dottonedan on November 02, 2012, 02:41:16 PM
I'd like to help, but I don't have much exp in that area.  Hoping someone will drive by soon to give you some help.
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: ebscreen on November 02, 2012, 02:50:15 PM
Never heard of waterbased transfers, can you point to a link about this? I'm intrigued.

Yes, three point registration. You can use just about anything. Permanent would be good
if you are always printing same size sheets and don't need to move your layout at all. Otherwise
a couple pieces of tape layered works as well.

I tried using a flash once to do what you are describing. It didn't work. i would either under cure
and the next layer would peel the first layer off, or overcure and shrink the paper a bunch.
That said, I didn't try that hard. Not a transfer guy by any means.

In my original copy of "How to Print shirts and Irritate People" they described using a backlit
transparent vacuum table to align additional colors correctly. Seemed neat.


Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: tonypep on November 02, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
Not aware of waterbase transfer technology. Don't think it exists
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 03:31:24 PM
Duratex from Lancer Group is a water-based heat transfer system
http://www.lancergroup.com/lancer/ink_catalog/heat_transfer/catalog4k.html (http://www.lancergroup.com/lancer/ink_catalog/heat_transfer/catalog4k.html)

I'm hoping to become proficient using their 900/hotsplit, 600SS/four color both with the 908 first down (It enables the use of higher mesh counts) series. As well as the Duratex for one color prints
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 03:42:57 PM
I read a heat transfer article in Printwear Mag some time ago and they mentioned water-based heat transfer's growing
popularity. But if you guys are on the cutting edge and never heard of it, then that gives me pause about getting into it
because this is where I come for support after all :-/
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: Frog on November 02, 2012, 03:47:18 PM
Don't give up yet. We have a couple of transfer printers as members.
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: ebscreen on November 02, 2012, 03:47:43 PM
Looks like you put an adhesive down last. Interesting.

Any particular reason you'd be wanting to get into waterbased transfers?
Looks like a lot of effort with little benefit over standard plastisol.

Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: tonypep on November 02, 2012, 03:48:13 PM
Thats interesting.
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: ScreenFoo on November 02, 2012, 04:08:23 PM
Saw a couple threads on TSF a while back--http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t5167.html (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t5167.html)
and http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t176243.html (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t176243.html)

Looks like water base (as is often the case) is a somewhat misleading term--I'm guessing these are high solids acrylic based inks, or 'rubber base' inks used to bind...

Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 04:09:54 PM
Looks like you put an adhesive down last. Interesting.

Any particular reason you'd be wanting to get into waterbased transfers?
Looks like a lot of effort with little benefit over standard plastisol.

A kids line, soft hand, labels, new product offering..
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 04:15:25 PM
Saw a couple threads on TSF a while back--http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t5167.html ([url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t5167.html[/url])
and [url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t176243.html[/url] ([url]http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t176243.html[/url])

Looks like water base (as is often the case) is a somewhat misleading term--I'm guessing these are high solids acrylic based inks, or 'rubber base' inks used to bind...


Now that's an interesting thread. Terminator voice- I'll be back!
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: ebscreen on November 02, 2012, 04:23:43 PM
And I'd imagine the adhesive used isn't going to be very softhand either.

The original offset/litho transfers in the 70's were those Star Wars type ones. Superheavy.
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 04:33:59 PM
Hey guys, this is a follow up link to Foo's links-

How to print water-based heat transfers from Stitches Magazine
http://web.archive.org/web/20040822153305/http://stitches.com/mag/apparel_environmentfriendly/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20040822153305/http://stitches.com/mag/apparel_environmentfriendly/)
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: ebscreen on November 02, 2012, 04:49:44 PM
Pretty much why machine manufacturers should stick to machine manufacturing and only write articles
on machine manufacturing. Crossing HIX off the list...


Title: Multicolor print registration
Post by: BorisB on November 02, 2012, 05:52:03 PM
 i wouldn't suggest using flash. Use dryer, run paper through before printing at 130C & keep it in polybag during printing.  Test dryer for settings. Plastisol Ink film should be a bit tacky, but not leave marks on finger or paper.
 
Waterbased inks are getting more used for transfers. You can care less about curing, but need to finish transfer with adhesive. And most don't print as nicely as plastisols do.
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: Im-Magic on November 02, 2012, 08:36:51 PM
We bought a Vacuum table, but most of what we do is tight rego and due to shrinkage, we were never able to register properly again. We have gone back to using adhesive to hold the paper and flashing each colour. If someone can tell me how to use a vacuum table and solve the shrinkage problem then I would be eternaly grateful.
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: Frog on November 02, 2012, 08:43:13 PM
We bought a Vacuum table, but most of what we do is tight rego and due to shrinkage, we were never able to register properly again. We have gone back to using adhesive to hold the paper and flashing each colour. If someone can tell me how to use a vacuum table and solve the shrinkage problem then I would be eternaly grateful.

Have you tried pre-shrinking the paper like Bauman mentioned a few posts back?
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: starchild on November 02, 2012, 09:25:08 PM
i wouldn't suggest using flash. Use dryer, run paper through before printing at 130C & keep it in polybag during printing.  Test dryer for settings. Plastisol Ink film should be a bit tacky, but not leave marks on finger or paper.
 
Waterbased inks are getting more used for transfers. You can care less about curing, but need to finish transfer with adhesive. And most don't print as nicely as plastisols do.

I was thinking of putting a tray in my dri-vault with the heat on and leaving the bulk of paper in there after preshrinking (what the heck is a hot box anyway?), only taking a few out at a time until the run is completed. I am going to consider the type of papers more closely however because from what I understand it's not just the brand or type (cold/hot/split) but also the tree type (long or short grain) and structure (direction of the grain) the makes or breaks a good registration.

Im-Magic is saying that using a flash is possible, Jason from Guru Ink who did the heat transfer vid on youtube also mentioned using the flash for multiple colors.

Well trial and error will sought this all out right?
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: ZooCity on November 02, 2012, 10:46:18 PM
We bought a Vacuum table, but most of what we do is tight rego and due to shrinkage, we were never able to register properly again. We have gone back to using adhesive to hold the paper and flashing each colour. If someone can tell me how to use a vacuum table and solve the shrinkage problem then I would be eternaly grateful.


Same here more or less.  We do preheat and either keep sheets warm or move fast on multicolor transfers printed with the clamshell.  I've had better success flashing on the manual with multi color, smashing success in fact.  Registration is deadly accurate. 

I have another thread on finding a cold peel paper that does not distort like crazy, but I don't think it exists, paper just doesn't like those temps.  I'm going to get serious on it and see if something is out there though.
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,5374.msg60125.html#msg60125 (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,5374.msg60125.html#msg60125)

Starchild, that's the right idea. I always refer to this article to start out, good general overview:
http://www.unionink.com/articles/transfer.html (http://www.unionink.com/articles/transfer.html)

WB transfers seem totally feasible to me if they are high-solids wb inks.   And adding adhesive last ain't no big thing if it's the crystals, we do that to the backs of all our plastisol cap transfers or any going on a substrate that might fight adhesion.   If someone has a WB transfer ink out there that will cure at lower temp/prevent epic distortion of the paper, I'll be switching to it for transfers right quick. 
Title: Re: Multicolor print registration
Post by: Im-Magic on November 04, 2012, 06:58:05 PM
We do run the paper through the dryer first and try to keep it warm but it still distorts. We do not have much choice when it comes to paper as I have only found two suppliers in Australia and they both sell the same paper.