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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: whitewater on November 28, 2012, 11:00:55 AM
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Wouldnt it make sense that since the usps is having problems just breaking even, and since mailing letters is not as common anymore that they should go the route of fedex and UPS?
They have the infrastructure already..Sure they take packages and what not but not to the scale of the others...Just buy new trucks...I am not the post master but really get your head out of the sand..
I can not be the only one that sees it this way
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The USPS is already involved with UPS to some degree.
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Are you suggesting we should switch to private sector mail? Go get'em tiger.
My simplified view is that we have on the one hand, the idea that government should be bigger...perhaps MUCH bigger, and on the other hand the idea that government should be much smaller, that it's already WAAAAY too big.
Find something that government has run well long term, and I'll eat my hat, but I'm firmly in the reduce government camp. Trouble is, in the real world you have to compromise when there are two sides that disagree, and fixing the post office before an absolute melt down will never happen. We have to crash before that, and the Post Office problem is just a symptom that proves the theory.
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The USPS is decent, the problem is their tracking is terrible and most of their employees don't care. The worst place to go is the post office. The Fedex depot here is pretty bad too. I know the UPS store is good, but those are franchises and the employees can be replaced much easier...so they work harder, and usually in the same place as the owner...more incentive to work hard.
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I have done 1,000s of shipments with USPS over the years......Yes their tracking sucks but when I can send a package from WA to NY, FL, etc. and get delivery confirmation for less than 3.00 I am happy.....I can not recall the last time a package was lost....Some have been delayed but not enough to panic....I would hate to think what would happen to 10s of thousands of small online businesses if USPS was eliminated....
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Are you suggesting we should switch to private sector mail? Go get'em tiger.
My simplified view is that we have on the one hand, the idea that government should be bigger...perhaps MUCH bigger, and on the other hand the idea that government should be much smaller, that it's already WAAAAY too big.
Find something that government has run well long term, and I'll eat my hat, but I'm firmly in the reduce government camp. Trouble is, in the real world you have to compromise when there are two sides that disagree, and fixing the post office before an absolute melt down will never happen. We have to crash before that, and the Post Office problem is just a symptom that proves the theory.
Whoa! USPS is not part of government, they are independent of the government completely. They operate on their own budget paid for by their services. The closest they come to being a government entity is that they have laws they must follow. Other than that if they grew ten times over our government has not.
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HAHA, they are part of the government. Yes, they are supposed to be separate, when it's congress's job to work out the details of the default/funding, you are part of the government.
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HAHA, they are part of the government. Yes, they are supposed to be separate, when it's congress's job to work out the details of the default/funding, you are part of the government.
Brad USPS does not recieve funding from tax payers, it can get loans but they have to pay them back.
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You can send a letter from Manhattan to the nether-regions of Alaska and have it delivered (rain or shine!)
for $0.45 in about 3 days.
That will never be profitable and is only possible with guvmint help.
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Sure they do, how do you think they avoided default...twice this year? They have been running in the red for years.
Eb is correct, the prices are too low to make it work.
That being said, it won't go anywhere, but some changes are going to have to be made to keep it around.
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You can send a letter from Manhattan to the nether-regions of Alaska and have it delivered (rain or shine!)
for $0.45 in about 3 days.
That will never be profitable and is only possible with guvmint help.
Not true.
Yes you can send where ever in this country for pennies but the Government does not pay for it. The USPS is failing and in a deficit because revenues is down, they cant go and dip into the government coffers. The biggest government aspect in the USPS is that they are governed by congress and their top members are picked by the president. Other than that they are nothing more than a business that the constitution makes law, USPS has been down sizing for years now and will continue to do so. They cannot turn a profit any more nor continue to pay into their retirement plan. So every time they deliver that $.45 letter to east bum !@#$ they lose money, not tax payers.
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Strictly speaking, yes...I suppose the USPS has been more and more of a hybrid over time. But the Feds are still heavily involved, with regulations and funding. Government involvement reduces private incentive. The higher up you go in government, the less the workers care...speaking in broad terms.
But having said that, I sure wish they could "fix" it, since it is already here. I just wish the Feds would stop digging holes that the private sector has to fill in. Our unfunded mandates nearly quintuples the generally admitted debt of 16 Trillion. A TRILLION is a meaningless word to the average "Dancing With The Stars" addict, who incidentally casts a single vote that EXACTLY equals yours.
The die has been cast, we are bankrupt. I just wish we'd own it, but like drug addicts, both sides seemingly are still in denial of that fact. More public funds won't FIX the USPS any more than borrowing and spending will FIX the economy.
It seems clear to me. The USPS oughta pay it's own way, and if it can't.....well.... b'Bye..... And no more 45 cent deliveries to Alaska would be a small price to pay. Doesn't make sense anyhow.
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We ship anywhere from 10-100 boxes per day USPS. They really are falling apart over the last few years. I worries me as it would cost a lot more to ship small items via UPS.
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They certainly have their good points. I'm always amazed that I can get some stickers or other Versa Cam stuff shipped from the other end of the country in 2-3 days for only $5 or $10! The other guys are a week.
I am guessing that it's the hard-copy-spammers that have kept them going this long.
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I really don't get why they don't sell "advertising" on stamps to companies like Disney and Coke.
I think weekend delivery should go....also our mailman here takes monday off and the other trucks around cover his route. If you can do that 1 day a week, you could do that the whole week as well. How many people could go? UPS sends out a fill-in driver, the postal service has others cover the route, look at who is more efficient.
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I really don't get why they don't sell "advertising" on stamps to companies like Disney and Coke.
I think weekend delivery should go....also our mailman here takes monday off and the other trucks around cover his route. If you can do that 1 day a week, you could do that the whole week as well. How many people could go? UPS sends out a fill-in driver, the postal service has others cover the route, look at who is more efficient.
Agreed. But how many postal workers would that add to the burgeoning list of un-and under-employeds? It might make 18,000 former Twinkie makers look pretty insignificant.
It isn't a problem with a simple solution, but one thing for sure, I'm not looking for much sensible leadership from Washington.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Yes, we have to stop this madness. Boortz read a story on his show this morning that new mandated regs will require Domino's Pizza to display about 3 million different Nutritional Information Placards for all the combinations of ingredients, crust styles, and sizes possible. Just more madness, and it is going to eventually bury us.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
I wouldn't be so harsh about our postal system, it is older than our actual government almost. They do get certain subsidies just like any large corp (Oil) etc. but they still have to rely on their own profits or else. Amtrak on the other hand is an actual gov owned business and the two services could not be any different.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
This is about to move to the cage, but would you really want to see, for instance, our oil companies fail, or perhaps just limit profits? Perhaps as a condition of any government help, tax breaks or other "welfare" their executive packages could be limited to a mere million or two.
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Keeping companies from failing is as close to a monopoly as you can get. If you don't have to fear going out of business you have nothing to lose. If your failing but your always bailed out then there is no urgency to change. If you don't change then you keep on the path of failure. It only cost more to keep you going. Let me take this into the screen printing world. If your dryer keeps undercuring shirts you don't keep giving it more shirts thinking it will change. You find out what is the problem and fix it. If it can't be fixed you get a new dryer. Just like the dryer the government needs to fix the reason they are failing or let them fail and get a new company to do the job.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Well... if you feel that strongly about it, I would hope you shipped the shirts FedEx.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Well... if you feel that strongly about it, I would hope you shipped the shirts FedEx.
That's what I was thinking?
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Canada Post would have been about 118.00.....So USPS is not far off......
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Well... if you feel that strongly about it, I would hope you shipped the shirts FedEx.
That's what I was thinking?
My point is no company should get an advantage.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Well... if you feel that strongly about it, I would hope you shipped the shirts FedEx.
That's what I was thinking?
My point is no company should get an advantage.
You're confusing the !@#$% out of me.
If any company profitted from the situation, it would appear to be you.
Had the shipping been $980:
1) the customer wouldn't have placed the order.
2) you wouldn't have had the job
I guess, everyone's for smaller government.. unless it impacts them.
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North you are the man! Last comment was dead on lol.
We all enjoy gov subsidies every day, just look at gas prices wow so high aren't they NOT! We pay much less than other civilized nations thanks to subsidies, take them away and start paying $8 a gallon.
Not seeing how the USPS is getting any kind of advantage, they been around much longer than any private delivery service, if they don't like it then don't get in the biz. The UPPS is mandated for our benefit not for some CEO's pocket.
It's almost like saying our military gets a government advantage because private mercenary groups can't profit in our wars.
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North you are the man! Last comment was dead on lol.
We all enjoy gov subsidies every day, just look at gas prices wow so high aren't they NOT! We pay much less than other civilized nations thanks to subsidies, take them away and start paying $8 a gallon.
Not seeing how the USPS is getting any kind of advantage, they been around much longer than any private delivery service, if they don't like it then don't get in the biz. The UPPS is mandated for our benefit not for some CEO's pocket.
It's almost like saying our military gets a government advantage because private mercenary groups can't profit in our wars.
I think that Academi/Blackwater is doing just fine. In fact, some have even said that our present wars were tailor made to profit a few major corporations. (I, of course, would never say that)
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Well... if you feel that strongly about it, I would hope you shipped the shirts FedEx.
That's what I was thinking?
My point is no company should get an advantage.
You're confusing the !@#$% out of me.
If any company profitted from the situation, it would appear to be you.
Had the shipping been $980:
1) the customer wouldn't have placed the order.
2) you wouldn't have had the job
I guess, everyone's for smaller government.. unless it impacts them.
That is not entirely true. If the post office was removed or failed. There would be a ton of packages that need to be shipped to Afghanistan. Now Fedex knows they can't compete in that market so they just don't. If it was a fare market they would have deals and transports to handle that area. With fare competition comes lower costs to the customer without a need for subsidizing. What the gov is doing is making areas where Competition is not driving pricing and the need for better practices and technology to compete. Competition is what gives the customer choices to pick the winners based on performance not by how many people will lose jobs if they fail. Its what american business was founded on and what made this country so great.
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I just sent 80 shirts to Afghanistan. 39 pounds in one gildan box.
Fedex $980
USPS $89
They may not be directly government run but they are subsidized in some way. I hope they fail like every other company the government plays favorites with.
Well... if you feel that strongly about it, I would hope you shipped the shirts FedEx.
That's what I was thinking?
My point is no company should get an advantage.
You're confusing the !@#$% out of me.
If any company profitted from the situation, it would appear to be you.
Had the shipping been $980:
1) the customer wouldn't have placed the order.
2) you wouldn't have had the job
I guess, everyone's for smaller government.. unless it impacts them.
That is not entirely true. If the post office was removed or failed. There would be a ton of packages that need to be shipped to Afghanistan. Now Fedex knows they can't compete in that market so they just don't. If it was a fair market they would have deals and transports to handle that area. With fair competition comes lower costs to the customer with out a need for subsidizing. What the gov is doing is making areas where Competition is not driving pricing and the need for better practices and technology. Competition is what gives the customer choices to pick the winners based on performance not by how many people will lose jobs if they fail. Its what american business was founded on and what made this country so great.
No... what the Post Office does, in many cases, is something that private enterprise doesn't want a part of.
No private company wants to deliver a birthday card from Broken Spoke, Montana to Blackwater, Mississippi for $.49
They might do it for $4.90... but not $.49
So it's not a case of customers choosing winning businesses... it would be a case of businesses choosing winning customers.
I going to take a guess at something..... you probably shipped shirts to a US serviceman.
The Postal service is based on helping citizens stay connected... it's part of their business model to honor that premise.
So, I guess in this case the connection between you and your customer was subsidized (by default) by some other customer.
It's not about what's "fair"... it's about what is good for a society.
Yes.... competition helps make America "great"... but so do many other practices, like a fully functioning Postal Service.
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That is not entirely true. If the post office was removed or failed. There would be a ton of packages that need to be shipped to Afghanistan. Now Fedex knows they can't compete in that market so they just don't. If it was a fair market they would have deals and transports to handle that area. With fair competition comes lower costs to the customer with out a need for subsidizing. What the gov is doing is making areas where Competition is not driving pricing and the need for better practices and technology. Competition is what gives the customer choices to pick the winners based on performance not by how many people will lose jobs if they fail. Its what american business was founded on and what made this country so great.
No... what the Post Office does, in many cases, is something that private enterprise doesn't want a part of.
No private company wants to deliver a birthday card from Broken Spoke, Montana to Blackwater, Mississippi for $.49
They might do it for $4.90... but not $.49
So it's not a case of customers choosing winning businesses... it would be a case of businesses choosing winning customers.
I going to take a guess at something..... you probably shipped shirts to a US serviceman.
The Postal service is based on helping citizens stay connected... it's part of their business model to honor that premise.
So, I guess in this case the connection between you and your customer was subsidized (by default) by some other customer.
It's not about what's "fair"... it's about what is good for a society.
Yes.... competition helps make America "great"... but so do many other practices, like a fully functioning Postal Service.
I understand your point and see you feel strongly about it. I am not looking at it as an emotional decision. The point is the Postal Service can deliver a birthday card for 49 cents because of bulk mail in that area. They deliver thousands of letters in that area so they can drop off another for 49 cents with out any cost. This worked for many years because society sent thousands of birthday cards and letters. Today its not the case. That 49 cent card is not being sent with tons of other 49 cent cards. Its a failing business. Its a failing service no matter how nice it is to only charge 49 cents. The reason the private enterprise doesn't want a part of it is because not like the gov the private sector has to make profit. If it was a fair market and no one was given help companies would have to compete on their strengths. In a fair market with competition the customer is in control and has all the power. I had a professor once tell me you vote with your money. That always stuck with me. We the customer vote for what taco place is worth our money. If the other taco places don't have as many votes, they can't survive and with time either make better tacos or fail. This is what drives our businesses. Giving anyone a unfair advantage will remove competition from that market.
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I admit I'm missing the competition argument here--if the post office is failing, even though it has a complete and legal monopoly on every mailbox in the country, how will two or three publicly held profit-driven competitors give us better service and rates?
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Most schools, police departments, fire departments, etc. lose a boatload of money too......But I doubt many would want to privatize them....Most Post Offices in the world have their issues, however, because a portion of the demographic they serve would be totally left out in a private sector model, I think it is best if the Post Office continues to operate.....
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Most schools, police departments, fire departments, etc. lose a boatload of money too......But I doubt many would want to privatize them....Most Post Offices in the world have their issues, however, because a portion of the demographic they serve would be totally left out in a private sector model, I think it is best if the Post Office continues to operate.....
Agreed, but these are state and local operations, and thus the states are able to sortof "compete" with each other at some level, and the better ideas emerge and evolve. The feds foul up everything they touch, and if we were truly constitutional, the federal government should field armies and protect our borders, and that's about it. But that's all theoretical and isn't EVER gonna happen.
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Most schools, police departments, fire departments, etc. lose a boatload of money too......But I doubt many would want to privatize them....Most Post Offices in the world have their issues, however, because a portion of the demographic they serve would be totally left out in a private sector model, I think it is best if the Post Office continues to operate.....
Agreed, but these are state and local operations, and thus the states are able to sortof "compete" with each other at some level, and the better ideas emerge and evolve. The feds foul up everything they touch, and if we were truly constitutional, the federal government should field armies and protect our borders, and that's about it. But that's all theoretical and isn't EVER gonna happen.
I disagree with out federal government we would have basic anarchy, imagine every one having free reign to do what they want.
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I like the post office. Think we should have it.
I do think they are a prime example of government based ineptitude though. Come on, they used to have a monopoly by decree, and ran themselves into the toilet, and still are controlled by congress. Private enterprise they are not.
Heck, they even use private distribution networks for part of their service. Hello?
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I suppose this isn't super common knowledge, but enough so that Wiki had it--
"Congressional role
Of related significance is the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA), which obligates the USPS to prefund 75 years' worth of future health care benefit payments to retirees within a ten-year time span – a requirement to which no other government organization is subject. Thus, in addition to the weak economy and the diversion of mail to electronic means, the mandates of PAEA have had a considerable impact on Postal Service finances. As a consequence, it has been charged that the US Postal Service budget crisis of 2011 is, in essence, an artificial one.[31][41][42][43]
Congress also has the ability to affect the USPS budget by changing rates for postage.[44] "
Might be easier to put in perspective that enough crises are manufactured we can't really afford the time to pay attention to most of them...