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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ebscreen on December 11, 2012, 01:58:56 PM
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Question for the folks using a smoothing screen. Do you have issues with smushing out fine lines, etc?
Especially reversed out stuff?
We tried one a few years back and this was one of the reasons don't use one anymore.
Also, the results barely seemed worth the effort. Certain designs may be worth it though.
Fleece would be a key application, but also most prone to smushout.
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Hello Ebscreen:
I am not able to answer your question but this may help you - We have a new utensil that is excellent for smoothing. Many printers on this site have made very positive comments regarding the effectiveness. Type roller squeegee into the upper right search box on this site and you can find the posts.
More Information on Roller Squeegees - http://bamstands.com/Email_Update-1112-02.htm (http://bamstands.com/Email_Update-1112-02.htm)
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Hello Action,
Yes, I'm aware of the product. I'd be interested in one if I knew it would fit correctly unlike the
last floodbars and pallets I purchased from you which were not made to the same specs
as either the OE or the previous sets I purchased from you.
Anyone have any non-sales advice?
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Strangely the few times I tried it the ink would stick to the teflon sheet, if not glued well it would lift the garment.
Now that I am thinking about this I wonder if teflon sheets have a life span?
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Prepress
Just as I try to do on opaques and/or fleece, I may compensate for the "smush" and start with a bolder line on reverses and like compensating for dot gain, a smaller line when printing the line itself.
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Prepress
Just as I try to do on opaques and/or fleece, I may compensate for the "smush" and strart with a bolder line on reverses and like compensating for dot gain, a smaller line when printing the line itself.
Right, and something to consider.
The process is akin to heat pressing after the fact, which can create quite bit more gain than direct printing alone.
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A smoothing screen is just like heat pressing, without the extra step.
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Hello Action,
Yes, I'm aware of the product. I'd be interested in one if I knew it would fit correctly unlike the
last floodbars and pallets I purchased from you which were not made to the same specs
as either the OE or the previous sets I purchased from you.
Anyone have any non-sales advice?
Sean,
What was wrong with the pallets. I was about to look into getting some. I don't want to waist money on faulty boards. Action is the only company that sells after market boards for my press. If they are no good then where do I go? I am a little concerned here they didn't fix the boards you got from them? Action is a stand up company from what I have heard, I am sure they will take care of you.
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The "nub pinch points" that the pallet locking mechanism grabs are quite a bit thinner than both OE and the boards
I ordered several years ago. This allows the board to slide back and forth on the arm, never really locking.
I was told that basically I need to adjust the locking mechanism on all arms of both my presses to accommodate
the one pallet that isn't correct, this advice led me to assume they had encountered this problem before.
They didn't know how to make this adjustment but according to them it is an easy process. (it isn't)
Same thing with the winged floodbars. Original equipment is at a certain height, this is very important and maybe
not apparent to folks that don't print. First floods I ordered matched this height. Then the design changed,
and the next set I ordered, one was at a completely wrong angle, ripping a screen before the rear of it would
even make contact. They replaced that one after I sent pics and the floodbar back.
The rest of the floodbars in that set, though at the correct angle, were not at the same height as the OE or
first floodbars I ordered from Action. This creates problems when switching floodbars out. Say you have your flood depth
set for the new style floodbar (they're shorter) and then put in the old style (taller). Ripped screens again.
the new shorter one's do not allow a hard flood either, usually not a problem (waterbase) but comes up
occasionally.
The height is adjustable to an extent (about 1/8") but I've decided to just have the brackets made so that all
of my floods are the exact same height.
I just want uniformity in my machine accessories. For what I've paid I can expect it.
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EB we use one on every dark print we run. It works best on more open areas but we are not smashing the crap out of it either. For the best results its a delicate dance to get it perfect. Are you running it directly after the flash?
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EB we use one on every dark print we run. It works best on more open areas but we are not smashing the crap out of it either. For the best results its a delicate dance to get it perfect. Are you running it directly after the flash?
Hasn't been done here in awhile, but yes, when we were it was right after the flash.
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The "nub pinch points" that the pallet locking mechanism grabs are quite a bit thinner than both OE and the boards
I ordered several years ago. This allows the board to slide back and forth on the arm, never really locking.
I was told that basically I need to adjust the locking mechanism on all arms of both my presses to accommodate
the one pallet that isn't correct, this advice led me to assume they had encountered this problem before.
They didn't know how to make this adjustment but according to them it is an easy process. (it isn't)
Same thing with the winged floodbars. Original equipment is at a certain height, this is very important and maybe
not apparent to folks that don't print. First floods I ordered matched this height. Then the design changed,
and the next set I ordered, one was at a completely wrong angle, ripping a screen before the rear of it would
even make contact. They replaced that one after I sent pics and the floodbar back.
The rest of the floodbars in that set, though at the correct angle, were not at the same height as the OE or
first floodbars I ordered from Action. This creates problems when switching floodbars out. Say you have your flood depth
set for the new style floodbar (they're shorter) and then put in the old style (taller). Ripped screens again.
the new shorter one's do not allow a hard flood either, usually not a problem (waterbase) but comes up
occasionally.
The height is adjustable to an extent (about 1/8") but I've decided to just have the brackets made so that all
of my floods are the exact same height.
I just want uniformity in my machine accessories. For what I've paid I can expect it.
I have the same problem with my winged floods. They are taller then my original floods. Its a pain when switching them back a forth. The pallet thing is a huge problem. You can't adjust the press easily or consistently. Depending on how off they are you will have issues with the foot releasing the boards. I had that issue on 2 arms on my press. from shipping and storage they got tweaked. Its was a easy fix but all my pallets have the same pins. If they were different from set to set You may have to adjust them (not an adjustment as much as a bending of the metal to apply more pressure) I wouldn't mess with that on my press. Our presses are too expensive to be modifying them to use boards that can be easily fixed with the correct brackets.
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Hello Action,
Yes, I'm aware of the product. I'd be interested in one if I knew it would fit correctly unlike the
last floodbars and pallets I purchased from you which were not made to the same specs
as either the OE or the previous sets I purchased from you.
Anyone have any non-sales advice?
Ebscreen - why slam us? I have no idea what you are referring to. We have an excellent reputation and have never left an issue unresolved that I am aware of. If there was a problem - we would have worked to remedy any issue. I have always said that we support our products and customers better than we get from our vendors. If you would like to contact me privately to discuss any unresolved issues - please pm me or email me at sales@actionengineering.com
Note - manufacturers of screen printing machinery are not always perfect. I would think that the forum members would want our involvement in these posts. I didn't reply with a long dialogue on the product and only left a link for you to further your investigation if you wished.
signed -
~Slightly Miffed in ATL~
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Not a slam. I just don't take kindly to sales posts (from anyone) on my questions.
Especially when the person making the sales post won't stand behind the last things
they sold me. My email address is sales@eastbayscreenprinting.com, check your records
and let us know. I've already dealt with you privately.
And we support our products and customers better than we get from our vendors.
it rolls down hill...
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EB we use one on every dark print we run. It works best on more open areas but we are not smashing the crap out of it either. For the best results its a delicate dance to get it perfect. Are you running it directly after the flash?
Hasn't been done here in awhile, but yes, when we were it was right after the flash.
We use just enough pressure to push the fibers that are left up back into the ink and that is it. Any harder and if the ink is too soft it will spread a hair. We use Quickwhite and that stays pretty stable.
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We use just enough pressure to push the fibers that are left up back into the ink and that is it. Any harder and if the ink is too soft it will spread a hair. We use Quickwhite and that stays pretty stable.
Gotcha. Is it something you do on every (applicable) print, or only for certain ones? In my mind I'd like
to just leave it setup in the head after the flash and turn it on/off as necessary. Any more effort than
that and it likely wouldn't be worth it, unless the results were spectacular.
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We use just enough pressure to push the fibers that are left up back into the ink and that is it. Any harder and if the ink is too soft it will spread a hair. We use Quickwhite and that stays pretty stable.
Gotcha. Is it something you do on every (applicable) print, or only for certain ones? In my mind I'd like
to just leave it setup in the head after the flash and turn it on/off as necessary. Any more effort than
that and it likely wouldn't be worth it, unless the results were spectacular.
Ask Ron Pierson for one. He recently posted here that the results (with a roller in the screen) are great!
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We use just enough pressure to push the fibers that are left up back into the ink and that is it. Any harder and if the ink is too soft it will spread a hair. We use Quickwhite and that stays pretty stable.
Gotcha. Is it something you do on every (applicable) print, or only for certain ones? In my mind I'd like
to just leave it setup in the head after the flash and turn it on/off as necessary. Any more effort than
that and it likely wouldn't be worth it, unless the results were spectacular.
After the first couple of times we tried it has been on the press ever since. You do have to change out the screen from time to time as the heat and pass after pass break down the emulsion. We use a 70/90/70 squeegee.and usually a 195 or 230 in the screen. Higher the mesh the smoother the print. Sometimes I will throw a freshly stretched Newman in for a beat down. If it is a big image with a lot of ink we tape the teflon sheet from the heat press on the back of the screen so we can haul ass and not worry about a sticky ink. I dont have any pics of the print in a loop but it makes a big difference when viewing under a loop.
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Shaun,
I have one and am sending it back as we speak, it keeps ripping the mesh right on the edge of the roller. I spoke with Eric and he wanted to see it / repair it and send it back. I have the same issue with my flood bars, If you could take a minute and pm what you did to fix the issue I would be most appreciative.
Robert
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We run the action roller on both our autos every day on almost all jobs. While we never had a quality issue before
, this gives us a print that I believe is more desirable. We have been doing a lot of high density gel prints where having this on press really saves time from having to heat press after drying. We leave ours up on press at all times and just check it every few hundred prints or each job. We have been doing this for a long time but with a traditional squeegee instead. The roller has saved us lots of time overall and I highly suggest it. Regarding smashing details like frog suggested we aaccount for that in the art but it smashes very very little overall. It's all about testing how much pressure works for your press and designs along with pallet temp. We run tape along the squeegee side of the screen where the roller edges travel and we can use the same screen for months this way. It's a great tool and can be beneficial to shops who dial it in.
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In response to the issues raised on our products - I will be contacting both of these gentlemen here to discuss how this happened and how to resolve these issues. As previously stated - we have always stood behind our products and do not recall these issues being brought to our attention. If the gentlemen here did make contact and we failed to take action at Action, then I am agreeable to their right to complain in this open forum. However - to my recollection we have no unresolved issues. We ship MHM related accessories all over the world to repeat customers who are some of the largest producers of printed garments. If this were a consistent problem for us - we wouldn't still be in business. Please allow us the courtesy of correcting the problem.
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We run the action roller on both our autos every day on almost all jobs. While we never had a quality issue before
, this gives us a print that I believe is more desirable. We have been doing a lot of high density gel prints where having this on press really saves time from having to heat press after drying. We leave ours up on press at all times and just check it every few hundred prints or each job. We have been doing this for a long time but with a traditional squeegee instead. The roller has saved us lots of time overall and I highly suggest it. Regarding smashing details like frog suggested we aaccount for that in the art but it smashes very very little overall. It's all about testing how much pressure works for your press and designs along with pallet temp. We run tape along the squeegee side of the screen where the roller edges travel and we can use the same screen for months this way. It's a great tool and can be beneficial to shops who dial it in.
Thank you for your positive comments Danny. Your timing couldn't have been better.
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I'll chime in here, we are using the roller and would not go without it any more (as mentioned before).
pierre
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Even on sim-process type stuff Pierre?
That's where I'd be worried about it smushing most, but also the least likely scenario to need it.
In our case, we don't have problems with texture, but things like large vector work on fleece
can get a sort of weird pattern from the fleece itself, a kind of waffling if you will.
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Even on sim-process type stuff Pierre?
That's where I'd be worried about it smushing most, but also the least likely scenario to need it.
In our case, we don't have problems with texture, but things like large vector work on fleece
can get a sort of weird pattern from the fleece itself, a kind of waffling if you will.
if we have an empty head we use it! So far have not had any issues with it that I am aware of, will have to talk to our production manger to confirm though.
we DEFINITELY use it on the fleeces and have not seen that problem. Are you using the roller or the blade?
pierre
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No, we don't use one currently, but have done the blade/screen/teflon in the past.
To be honest it would seem that a roller would produce even more squishout than a
regular blade, not unlike a rolling pin.
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'did not care for the blade, it just felt like a necessary evil when we HAD to use it. Roller just does not feel that way.
to be honest with you, I don't know about the squish, but we have not changed anything to our art and we've had the roller on the press for over a month now (if not two).
I think if you contact Action, in lieu of the previous problems, they might be inclined to work you out a deal. The roller is a little taller than the regualr squeegee and you will have to back it off some. I talked to them after we received ours and provided some feedback. My understanding is that they have made some changes (not performance, but convenience related) so yours might not be as tall as ours.
If you don't like it, they will refund you the money, so there really is very little risk involved.
pierre
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We've had our 'Holy Roller' from Action for a while now. We use it at every available opportunity when printing on darks.
Dial in the right pressure and it is worths it weight in gold. It 's a great tool. We bought one for our Sportsman with the specific M&R notched
squeegee holder,
and the roller also fits perfectly into our Anatol as well. We swap it (and the teflon screen) from press to press as the jobs dictate.. Good work, Action..
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We've had our 'Holy Roller' from Action for a while now. We use it at every available opportunity when printing on darks.
Dial in the right pressure and it is worths it weight in gold. It 's a great tool. We bought one for our Sportsman with the specific M&R notched
squeegee holder,
and the roller also fits perfectly into our Anatol as well. We swap it (and the teflon screen) from press to press as the jobs dictate.. Good work, Action..
The 'Holy Roller' :)
John - thank you sincerely for taking the time to post this. Your comments were shared with all of our staff and it made everyone grin from ear to ear - especially me. It was even suggested that we should rename it The Holy Roller or Holy Moly Roller. May I have your contact information and consent to use this statement on a testimonial page? We are going to make a large poster out of these testimonials for our upcoming ISS-Long Beach exhibit.
Thank you again John -
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Annddddd........
nothin.
Robert, I'll post a picture showing the several different heights and angles of floodbars we have from Action
in a minute here. There's isn't really much you can do for the angle short of having a sheet metal bender.
The bracket is adjustable in height, but only by about 1/8".
I'll also post a pic showing the different pallets we've received and the problems with them. I've got a cheapo
caliper that'll work for this purpose.
(you're shi-tting the bed here Action)
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I sent an email to you earlier to get this resolved. It went to Sean.
I'm seriously tiring of this EB. Your comments and tactics seriously lack proffessionalism. I looked up your order. I sent an email. Why take this tact over for 1 custom sized pallet?
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The only email I have from you is a spam regarding your holy roller which I received a few minutes ago.
So you can't say you don't have the right address!
You have had two full days to contact me, and I understand if you are busy, but you seem to be able
to find the time to reply to this thread in regards to those that praise your product, only.
Please re-read the thread. I have a problem with nearly all products I have received from you.
Hell, my first winged flood had weld splatter on it. Yet no welding is involved in that product?
The ends had some gnarly burrs on it too that I had to clean up. I know you aren't a printer
(but if I was in your shoes I would have a press in-house or at least access to one for
all machine types you make equipment for) but a burr on the business end of a floodbar is a big
no no.
I'm not asking for much, just that you give me what I paid for. You charge (more than) top dollar for
your products, and if I'm going to pay it (in many cases I have no choice, that will change though) I
expect that I get a top notch product. I have not.
What is even more mind-boggling than your "response" to a customers concerns, is that making these
products is dead simple! There's like literally, 1 variable for winged floodbars, the width. We deal
with custom orders that will have literally unlimited variables. And we nail them. And if we don't, we make it
right, plain and simple.
You have a monopoly on a niche, but if this is how you conduct business than best of luck to you.
A buddy of mine is starting a machine shop, and I will strongly recommend that he start producing
many of the same products. Hell of a better craftsman than what I've seen from you....
Don't bother contacting me, I'm done with your company.
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Video of Action's MHM Pallets. (http://www.eastbayscreenprint.com/Temp/VIDEO0003.3gp)
Sorry it's sideways. And blurry. I think it get's the point across though.
Why the pallet wouldn't be made to OE specs, or even the specs
of their previous pallets is beyond me.
Why take this tact over for 1 custom sized pallet?
Way to try and belittle myself and the situation. That one pallet cost ~$300. I expect it to
work correctly.
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Gawd I hate it when two people that I consider both to be friends or board buds squabble.
I can not believe that this could not get resolved. This has to be a communication breakdown.
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Video of Action's MHM Pallets. ([url]http://www.eastbayscreenprint.com/Temp/VIDEO0003.3gp[/url])
Why take this tact over for 1 custom sized pallet?
Way to try and belittle myself and the situation. That one pallet cost ~$300. I expect it to
work correctly.
How does something like that get past QC?
I'm seriously tiring of this EB. Your comments and tactics seriously lack proffessionalism. I looked up your order. I sent an email. Why take this tact over for 1 custom sized pallet?
Action (is this Eric or his son) I don't know what your trying to prove, EB is the customer. Action, You sir are the one that messed up here not EB. If you stand behind your products (like you say) then you should be making it right not telling EB his comments and tactics seriously lack professionalism. This was a opportunity for you to prove you stand behind your products and make things right. Instead this looks really bad. You come off like a cocky bully that would rather thank people for pats on the back then fix your screw up. I am sorry hate me for being honest but this looks bad.
This is an area Rich from M&R really understands. I have read customers of M&R not happy and then Rich chimes in to do everything he can to make it right. Sometimes it wasn't even his product or his fault. I guess not every supplier in this industry acts the same. Some jump at fixing problems and others belittle. Sorry this struck a nerve with me since this could have been pallets I got for my MHM.
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Gentlemen:
I apologize for my lack of proper diplomacy here. This began when I posted a reply to EB's initial question. His reply to me was something I interpreted as inappropriate. Perhaps now I see that my reply to that was a bit over-defensive. Sorry guys. I'm not used to it. We typically have people praising us and not the other way. If it were to happen again the response is not likely to be what it was.
That being said, and with all sincerity - We would have worked hard to solve these issues immediately if your discontent had been communicated back in June when the pallet came in. Our records indicate one phone call that we replied to and no emails on the subject. I am convinced that we were not properly made aware of your discontent. One phone call and then 6 months later - this. The statements made were over the top and totally untrue.
Regarding the flood bar height – Our WFB assemblies have a height adjustable plate and it sounds as though the plate is not correctly positioned. All we need is a phone call or email to correct the issue.
One other thing EB - your pallet order came in on June 1st for a custom sized Honeycomb Pallet. We made it from scratch and had it out the door in 2 work days. I think that’s pretty good service myself. I apologize if there was an issue - but sir - we would have taken care of it if we were given the proper chance.
Jon - I thank you for your honest input as it made me see I was not 100% right in my response. However – I am compelled to defend our companies reputation when statements are made that reflect our product quality &company integrity.
EB – I don’t want bad product in the field and customers that are unhappy. Let us correct the issue. I sent an email yesterday – did it not come in?
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Haven't heard anything from you yet. I emailed about a month ago with my concerns on the pallet (stock size by the way) and floodbars. I can post your reply here if need be.
Yes the product was ordered quite awhile ago, my first flood was probably 4 years ago or so. Initially I assumed it must be something on my end as this was Action I was dealing with. When I had one flood come in (in an order of four I think) that was so obviously wrong that it would rip screens before doing it's job, I called to get it replaced, and was made to jump through hoops, being told it was my fault, I think I even paid for return shipment. Why one floodbar out of four would be so off is beyond me? Do you guys do our own manufacturing?
I also took a picture yesterday of the floodbars I have from you guys. I have ordered them three separate times from Action and we have three different heights as well as three different angles. I will see if I can attach it from my phone. There are enough variables in this business that I do not want to be adding more. Especially at $100 a piece.
I don't take kindly to the way you have handled this. If initially you had taken care of me then none of this would have happened. This is business, you are going to have eat crow sometimes. While many (M&R) customers may praise you, your MHM products aren't going out so hot. Hell, some folks just might not even know. You charge more than enough to send out exceedingly correct product. You charge more than enough to replace incorrect product. I guarantee you I have cost you much more here than whatever the materials and labor would have cost to make me happy in the first place.
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You know, in reading your post I'm still seeing you trying to discredit me, your customer.
Tell me which statement I made that is untrue.
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Floodbars are surprisingly difficult to photograph.
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I called your office a moment ago and emailed you also. Please respond so that we can correct the issues you are having. 800/228-4668
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Today is my Saturday part 1 so I will be in touch Monday.
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Look, Action dude, you sent someone bad product, you dropped the ball on replacing and it appears in the case of MHM accessories that you have consistently made some items inconsistently, that's not ebscreen's fault and you should be thankful some people like himself and screenedgear are being honest with you and not just moving on without saying a word.
There is no reason you should be sending out product like that platen in the video- that's just plain silly and you and everyone else knows it. It's simple machining. Fix it up and onward to doing better work.
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Sucks that Eb got some bum stuff. We've bought lots of stuff from Eric at Action and it's always been good stuff. Not to say EB didn't have a legit gripe, but in my exp. Eric has always gotten us good crap, taken care of problems when they arose, and was nice to talk to when we met in person... He likes to smoke almost as much as i do!