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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: inkman996 on December 14, 2012, 02:44:28 PM
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I cant even deal with what I just found out happened in my state today, so close to my own home and where my daughter goes to school. I am so disturbed I can barely function, i cant understand this how anyone could kill dozens of little children, there is no punishment good enough for this person.
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We're all stunned here, just when you think you've heard the worst. There is no explaining this kind of insanity...
Steve
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Right now the news is doing just what he wanted, and I bet some other nut is looking at this and planning on one upping it, and thats very sad to say.....babies now, why?
Daryl
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I spent a lot of time in Newton. My dad lived there for more than a decade. Hard to imagine; can't even begin to describe. I hear the shooters Mother was a teacher and now a victim.
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Its a nice rural town decent money, no connections to any of the bigger cities. I cannot wrap my mind around what the hundreds of other kids now have to deal with in their own minds. I cannot watch the news, I refuse, i wish I could never have known about this even tho it is selfish. Humanity has just shrunk to a lower level for me.
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I can't imagine being a parent of one of the children killed today. That's the last thing on your mind when you send your child off to kindergarten!
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These shooters should not be reported on by the news. They should never get a trial. The police, if doing their job. should never let them get to the police station alive. This crap just proves there is no way to protect yourself if someone losses it. I am not a religious person but I do believe in a higher power. I think that higher power needs be fired for not showing up to work today.
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BTW the news are reporting the town wrong, its Newtown CT not Newton.
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If they're taken alive, give 'em due process quickly, sentence them officially to "time served", then send out a news bulletin to the parents as to the day and time he'll be "released" out the front door of the county lockup. Let nature take its course. Put THAT "meet 'n greet" on the evening news.
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Guess they are finding more bodies now, it seems he started with his father and finished with his mother who was a teacher at the school. Possibly a brother as a second shooter WTF! My daughter was sent home early from kindergarten, they locked down most of the schools in and around the county.
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It really is sad. This crap always happens around the holidays. If you are that f up or depressed why make others suffer. I feel just as bad for the ones that witnessed it and have to live with this as I do for the victims. There's a whole group that will be scared for life.
This is a perfect example of where they should have portable gallows. If the shooter lived they should drag his ass outside and hang him on site. Sorry for being so harsh but something needs to be done instead of dragging it through the courts for years, clearly an example of someone that can not be "fixed and returned to society"
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I agree bink. unfortunately these cowards kill themselves instead of facing up to what they have done.
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Brian "harsh"? I thought you were being a bit kind with your description.
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I feel your pain guys, that is one of the reasons I quited one job back when my son was born in `09
to be able to be closer with him, I think it was worth it
Gabe
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Tried to keep it low key.
I had to pick up the kids at school today because of the lock down, canceled all bus service. We are 200 miles from the event and are effected by it not only emotionally but physically. All the working parents had to leave early to get their kids.
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I feel you Brian, my daughter goes to school in Hawleyville one town away literally 3 miles from sandy hook. Guess how I found out, an automated call to my cell telling about the school being locked down and parents need to assemble in a certain area to pick their children up WTF! I looked at CNN and nearly lost it, I knew my daughter was safe but being so damn close to this is shocking, I work in Wallingford but my children live 50% near Newtown.
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Seriously any crimes against kids needs some serious punishment not just the death penalty, they need to be tortured to death long and very slow torture
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One of my employees said it best when we were talking about it. I said, " I suppose the coward killed himself when he was done?" His perfect response was. "Yeah. Too bad he didn't START with himself"
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Seriously any crimes against kids needs some serious punishment not just the death penalty, they need to be tortured to death long and very slow torture
this.
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One of my employees said it best when we were talking about it. I said, " I suppose the coward killed himself when he was done?" His perfect response was. "Yeah. Too bad he didn't START with himself"
That is about the best thing I heard all day, he should TM that.
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Seriously any crimes against kids needs some serious punishment not just the death penalty, they need to be tortured to death long and very slow torture
Right on Gerry!
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Seriously any crimes against kids needs some serious punishment not just the death penalty, they need to be tortured to death long and very slow torture
Nice to see others think the same way I do.
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Sad thing is this is news for a week and the world will move to something else, but those poor parents will remember this evry 14th of December for the rest of there lives. If hell is real this guy should feel all 26 souls of heat.
Darryl
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I'm seriously sick of crimes against our children and we sit back and protect the criminal!!! You have got to be kidding me!!! There was a guy close by me that got caught for child porn and they want to protect this deviant by not publishing his name and putting him in a protected area in prison!!! WTF!!! These are children's lives that are being totally ruined FOREVER! And this so called justice system doesn't give a crap! Until we start chopping balls off and putting slits in their skin and pouring some acid in it its not gonna stop, this is just sickening! Sorry for the rant but enough is enough already!!!
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Five year old and up are going to be the hardest to heal, the ones that witnessed this happening. Many of us here have children in these age ranges and we know kids this young do not know how to articulate their emotions and fears, the nightly terrors and social fears they will suffer some much longer than others is going to make this tragedy much more than,just thirty souls. It will be in the hundreds and many will be,scarred for their whole lives.
I cannot come to any realistic idea of what the answer is to stop this, even being a liberal to some degree I still don't think banning guns is the answer. I only can think that prevention of some,sort is and has to be the answer, all these sick individuals have something in their history, something to trigger something else to stop them or at the least keep them away from our children.
Some will cry for banning guns, others will demand fences and guards on all our schools, and others will wish every semi mentally ill person be imprisoned, none of that will ever work.
I bet we will find out this is somehow tied to the end of the world BS and prompted by the mall shooter in OR. I hope the country staysmon alert for some time because I feel deep down more sickos are going to crawl out of their holes and emulate.
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Heard about it today at lunch. Sickening. I don't know what kind of person you need to be in order to murder innocent people, let alone children. I have no faith in humanity.
Glad to hear your kid is safe, Inkman. Can't even imagine the horror, being so close to the area.
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We had this happen last year in Chardon ohio a city pretty close to here. My son was getting texts and tweets from his friends at the school as it was happening, reading those messages, as a parent, were absolutely terrifying. We are related to a couple of the firefighters who were on scene and I tell ya I wish I never heard their stories of what they saw it was just horrific. In some ways this is worst because a an adult did it not another kid.
RT Screen Designs
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These types of attrocities invoke a rage in me that I cannot describe. Whatever punishment we could imagine putting on people who do this could not possibly be enough. I mean 50 years of constant mental and physical torture that no man has ever endured for even a day would be enough for me to be satisfied, I'd want more. I am a compasionate and merciful man when it comes to most crimes, but not this, this is beyond human comprehension and the punishment should be as well.
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These types of attrocities invoke a rage in me that I cannot describe. Whatever punishment we could imagine putting on people who do this could not possibly be enough. I mean 50 years of constant mental and physical torture that no man has ever endured for even a day would be enough for me to be satisfied, I'd want more. I am a compasionate and merciful man when it comes to most crimes, but not this, this is beyond human comprehension and the punishment should be as well.
What Alan said....Up until I had my own kid something like this probably wouldn't effect me like it does now. Placing myself in those parents shoes, and those poor innocent kids is just too much to bear. Words cannot describe the anger I think most of us have right now... Just a bad bad deal for the kids, parents, teachers, and families involved.
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I can't even begin to imagine what those poor families are going through. How do they even begin to pick up the pieces? My youngest is in pre-k and it is just too difficult to even think of such a thing . It said he somehow got through the front security....so what is the answer? I doubt most schools even have security ESP. Small towns.
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INk...glad your family is ok!.. It does hit me harder since i have my own children, one the same age...I was pissed yesterday, now just extreme sadness...
is there really an answer to make sure this doesnt happen again? I dont believe there is...doesnt matter what you do, somone always finds a way...
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I am sorry I know some disagree with this kind of thinking but I truly believe there has to be much better gun control. Not gun banning but some type of control. It's appealing to find out this sickos mother who was nothing more than a teacher was purchasing guns including a high power tactical type rifle for her son. It's becoming known he has had some type of emotional illness and past. It's still very vague but we all know what will be discovered. The gun does not cause someone to murder but it does give him the capacity to commit mass murder, not as easy as a knife, sword, bat, etc. case in point just the other day a man in china stabbed twenty children and they all survived.
Another thought is in school security, many of our inner city schools are protected with armed police, metal detectors, and locked doors. This school was only an elementaryt school so security is not extreme even they did have some in place. I would feel safer if I knew when I dropped my daughter off for school on Monday that her school is locking doors and having more adult presence in the only open entrance. But down the road how about reinforcing the classroom doors, how about installing small inner rooms that are impregnable from the outside, somewhere the teacher can shuffle her class of kids into when a sicko comes with a gun.
One thing that is devastating me is my two young ones have to be told why things happened yesterday and why in the future their is things you must know to do if something ever occurs in their school. To me this is destroying what and how they see school, why in hell does five year olds have to know that their favorite place in the whole world is always a target and potentially not safe. Yet here we are and we can't ignore it.
Yesterday's shooting is really new territory, I am reluctant to admit it but its gotten to the point where you are not overly surprised to hear about gun rage at a high school, or a mall, or work place, but now America it has happened in the most innocent place it can and that is our youngest school children.
And for my biggest vent I really really want to knock the F out some reporters, it was tearing my heart out last night as I seen these young kids being interviewed by reporters as they were being picked up by their parents moments after the tragedy happened. Asking them what they heard, what they seen, you get the point. Disgusting to me and completely inappropriate of our local reporters to do that. I hope after some things settle down there will be some accountability for this because I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way.
Honestly it didn't matter where even in the whole world this happened I should feel no different than anyone one else, yet being so freaking close to home, so close to my daughters own school it really has hit me hard. It's human nature to feel react that way. My inner hope is this will not be repeated nor attempted by the next sicko looking to emulate.
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As for the reporting...Looking back at it, there was alot of "CONFIRMED" misinformation...and the parents let their children be interviewed..
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Regrettably, the 24 hour news cycle and competition to get the scoop only increases the sensationalization of these acts, prompting the next nut job to up the ante. The news story changed by the minute with conflicting "facts" flying left and right.
The school had good security, recently initiated by the principal who was killed first. How the guy walked in there wearing all black and body armor is a mystery, but he was let in.
With determination on the part of a psychopath, there's nothing you can do to eliminate evil like this. Take away the glamour of sensational killings and maybe the violence will subside. In placing the blame, who's to say that the extreme violence portrayed in movies and in video games aren't as guilty as access, legal or illegal, to a gun? You can't outlaw everything, but it's whatever drove this individual to commit the act that's at fault . . . mental illness, social maladjustment, pick your poison. The gun was just convenient, but for someone who snaps, the lack of one isn't likely a deterrent. The mother who bought them (and paid with a shot to the face) should've kept them locked up, and with a nut for a son, should've had the sense to not keep them around.
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Regrettably, the 24 hour news cycle and competition to get the scoop only increases the sensationalization of these acts, prompting the next nut job to up the ante. The news story changed by the minute with conflicting "facts" flying left and right.
The school had good security, recently initiated by the principal who was killed first. How the guy walked in there wearing all black and body armor is a mystery, but he was let in.
With determination on the part of a psychopath, there's nothing you can do to eliminate evil like this. Take away the glamour of sensational killings and maybe the violence will subside. In placing the blame, who's to say that the extreme violence portrayed in movies and in video games aren't as guilty as access, legal or illegal, to a gun? You can't outlaw everything, but it's whatever drove this individual to commit the act that's at fault . . . mental illness, social maladjustment, pick your poison. The gun was just convenient, but for someone who snaps, the lack of one isn't likely a deterrent. The mother who bought them (and paid with a shot to the face) should've kept them locked up, and with a nut for a son, should've had the sense to not keep them around.
Sadly it is confirmed he was not let in he actually shot his way through the glass door to get access. This proves my theory better physical security is a must, reinforced glass etc.
His mother as it is becoming known was a gun enthusiast and brought both her sons to target practice and gun shows. Unfortunately she also knew and was concerned about her sons personality disorder, yet she continued to allow him access to weapons.
I still stand by with out the gun itself the ability to commit mass carnage is reduced. It's only one aspect to protecting our kids sure there is many oth things that need to be looked at. In this case the gun is the most tangible piece and should be the easiest part of the equation to control, the physiology is much more difficult and really a sensitive area to many since many have children with different personality issues, we can't start painting with a broad brush but I do think the physiology is the first aspect to help with prevention.
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This has actually increased my desire to have guns. As a matter of fact in a couple of hours im taking my family to a gun show. I was going to go by myself but really feel the need to educate my family on gun use, safety, laws etc. I think someone in that front office of that school should have been armed. That might have reduced the casualties. Take the guns out of law abiding citizens hands and the likelihood of increased crime is definitely there. If 50% of law abiding citizens were armed those criminals would think I have a 1 in 2 chance that this is the last crime I ever commit.
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The media coverage DOES help inspire copycats. Anyone who is actually whacked enough to "off" himself in the first place, might be tempted to take others with him, no? They live in an artificial reality.
Add some dysfunctional family life (or none), maybe a bit of entrenched cultural violence to a Gun Free Zone (read that as Helpless, Victim Zone) and Mr. Nutjob might just want his 15 minutes of fame, post mortem. Sick.
Dr. John Lott's decade plus of research seems to point out, with all due respect to those who think the answer may lie in more gun control... that the only difference that has been observed to minimize these attacks is a better armed society, not the opposite. I don't want to trash any of my good friends sincerely held beliefs on this forum, but more gun control has not helped anyplace I am aware of. Israel made a difference in their schools in just that way starting in the 70's... more guns in the schools pretty much stopped that violence, or so I have read. But the battle moved elsewhere for Israel.
Truth is, you are NEVER going to stop this completely.
And for those who have ears to hear, let them hear... I believe this is a modern version of the age long battle between good and evil, a spiritual battle if you will. Like it or not...we have a dark side. Family, society, CHURCH, our moral compass...it all needs regular tending. FAMILY is fundamental. This should be a wake up call. Just my two cents. Don't be mad.
If only 1 tenth of one percent of people are TRULY BAD, that is a lot of bad people. Can't fix that, I don't think.
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I feel horribly for the parents, relatives, and loved ones of these victims. I can only imagine the pain they are going through right now.
IMHO I think this is a disgusting event, one that should make people think about the importance of mental health, counseling, and tolerance instead of tearing people apart on every level.
I feel like half of the off topic guns/punishment discussion deserves to be in the cage already, but suffice it to say, everyone was saying the same kind of thing when Columbine happened. As was evidenced on 9/11, a gun is not necessary for mass murder, but the will and the action to do so is.
The real question is, WHY do people have to will to commit disgusting acts such as these, and what makes them act on it?
From the media's take, (as well as much of the torture/murder reaction of this discussion,) it doesn't seem there are many interested in searching for that answer.
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Blame it on anything you want, mental, poor childhood, bullying as a child, depression, child abuse, whatever, some people are just weak minded. Parents need to start raising strong willed children and quit raising p&%$ys. That is what this guy was a p$%&y raised by some parents that didn't know what the hell they were doing. Sorry but that's my take. And no amount of gun control is going to help that one bit. In china 20 kids were stabbed, so what.. Knife control??
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I think it's all the damn drugs doctors put kids on. He's acting up, here take this, he'll calm down. feeling a bit sad because nobody plays with you at school?, oh here johnny -take some anti depressants. And we have a diagnosis for every feeling /act /condition - You must be bipolar because you have mood swings. what!? really? parents need to break a foot off in their kids asses more than take them to a doctor.. . .if what we are reading is true, the family KNEW this kid had issues and wtf was the mother doing with weapons in the home? I don't care if she loved firearms, she needed to use some common sense and keep them elsewhere. that is being irresponsible.
so sad for these parents and kids, excited for Christmas and now this will haunt them forever. I could not imagine coming home and seeing their little shoes next to the door, knowing they will never be worn again. I would probably go tackle a train. . .
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I think it's all the damn drugs doctors put kids on. He's acting up, here take this, he'll calm down. feeling a bit sad because nobody plays with you at school?, oh here johnny -take some anti depressants. And we have a diagnosis for every feeling /act /condition - You must be bipolar because you have mood swings. what!? really? parents need to break a foot off in their kids asses more than take them to a doctor.. . .if what we are reading is true, the family KNEW this kid had issues and wtf was the mother doing with weapons in the home? I don't care if she loved firearms, she needed to use some common sense and keep them elsewhere. that is being irresponsible.
so sad for these parents and kids, excited for Christmas and now this will haunt them forever. I could not imagine coming home and seeing their little shoes next to the door, knowing they will never be worn again. I would probably go tackle a train. . .
YES!!!
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Gun control will not solve anything. Most crimes involving guns they find the weapons were obtained from the black market, stolen, etc. There are so many other ways to produce carnage with out the use of guns.
We need to look at the mental health of the public. I truly believe all the technology today is influencing acts of violence such as what happened yesterday. Just look at the tv shows that are on and the graphic video games. IMO the tv we watch and the games we play are for one putting bad ideas in peoples heads and two making us numb to society. I am not saying to ban these influences but rather use appropriately, be smart on what to watch or play. This young man just did not wake up and decide to do this, his anger, depression, etc was deep rooted and I'm sure has been festering for years. Parents need to step up to the plate and be responsible caring and nurturing. People need to recognize mental health issues in others and take action instead of turning a blind eye towards it. I do understand some are not as well off as others and can not spend every waking hour tending to their children but you can not just ignore them and their mental stability.
Again IMO there is a huge problem in general with peoples social skills, especially the younger ones (I read the other day you can bitch about young people after you turn 40 so it's ok for me to bitch) They spend too much time doing singular things like playing games or listening to music with head phones, etc. When they get in a public setting with others they don't know how to act or even how to socialize. I feel lucky, we had no choice but to be social. We had to go outside and play with others, that's all there was to do. It didn't matter if it was -10 or 100 degrees, raining, sun blazing or snowing. If you wanted something to do you had to go out and do it, there was noting to do if you stayed inside.
Growing up we watched Bug's Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, Heckel & Jeckel, Popeye on a 13" B/W tv. Most of which have been deemed too violent and removed from tv. We knew it was all made up, we knew there was no way a coyote could buy an anvil let alone build a Rub Goldberg device to catch a Road Runner. I knew ACME was a food store chain and did not sell dynamite. There was a definitive separation between reality and fiction. With today's graphic tv I'm sure it is hard for some to separate the two. Again not saying ban the shows or games but be responsible. We watch very little tv, I made father of the year in 2010 when I canceled Direct TV. We now watch antenna tv, Hulu and Netflix. Last month I watched the series Breaking Bad, little gruesome but I still watched. I know there is some gruesome stuff in reality in regards to the plot, I can watch it and be able to carry on with my life. My 10 year old came home from school a few weeks ago and wanted to watch it, I asked him why he wanted to see it. He said all his class mates were talking about it and wanted to see what it was all about. Short story long he still has not seen it and as far as I'm concerned he wont for at least another eight years. IMO this is a good example of what I am talking about. Young minds exposed to that king of violence can not be healthy.
Some may have seen it, Arlington Road. A well done movie, I wont ruin the story but those who have seen it will understand this. It is all a viscous cycle. Those young people and adults exposed to what happened yesterday will be effected the rest of their lives. I would not be surprised if later one of the survivors does not do something similar. Same goes for child abuse, usually victims become the abusers and the cycle goes on and on and on. Little by little it spreads like a virus.
Please know I understand there are exceptions to everything and there are just some who are "just not right in the head". Not everyone is the same.
Homer is right on the money, beat me to it.
Sorry to rant but just needed to vent a little.
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Very true Brian. I monitor my children and the shows they watch. I regulate the games they play. Its is the parents responsibility to how their children turn out.
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Wow, Brian...good stuff. I dumped TV nearly 20 years ago. We have added Hulu and a ROKU box since the kids are gone. Watch old stuff mostly.
I think these posts are mostly sensible, so far. We need to find out what works, like doctors or engineers. Engineers build better structures by learning about past failures...politics don't really enter the picture.
I sit by musicians in my orchestra that I TOTALLY disagree with, politically. We set all that aside to make better music. Surely we can study this too....