TSB
screen printing => Separations => Topic started by: myseps on December 29, 2012, 10:36:15 AM
-
Is there a way to print photoshop seps without using photoshop? Maybe using Corel instead or some sort of PDF or eps?
-
I don't remember why I did it, but I have saved PS channel seps as individual files which I then imported into CorelDRAW.
-
I snagged this from something Tom posted. Maybe it will help. I've done something similar but this might get you started -
Tom Pitman
Owner
Pitman Graphics
If all you're using is Photoshop, you can output halftones directly to your film by changing the mode of your file to "bitmap", and change the "method" in the drop-down menu at the bottom of the dialog box to "halftone" and enter your linescreen, angle and dot shape in the subsequent dialog box. If you're working with spot color or process color, once you've edited your file to your satisfaction, save a copy, then use the "split channels" option by clicking the small tab at the upper right of the channels palette, then changing each of the subsequent grayscale channels to bitmap halftones as noted above. You'll wind up with a file for each of the separations. One other consideration when using this method is this: the sharpness of the dot shape when printing is not only determined by the resolution of you printer, but also by the resolution of your file. A low-res file will print ragged. Think of postscript files printed to a 300 dpi laser printer years ago . . . not as sharp on the edges as the same file printed to a 600 or 1200 dpi printer. When I've used this method, I always tried to create my file at 600 dpi so the halftone dots would be fairly sharp on the edges. Others may disagree.
I think you can output this to a file to pass off to someone.
-
Back in the day we used to save multichannel PSD files as DCS 2.0 EPS files. Nowadays, you don't need to do that... just import (or "place" in AI) your PSD into a CorelDRAW or Illy file and the spot color channels will print... when you see the spot colors from the PSD in the Draw/Illustrator swatches palette, you know you're good to go.
This is useful for people who have a standard setup with reggie marks, etc in a vector app... or if you need to add text or other vector elements.
-
Hi Scott,
I know your picking up some of my customers here and there for them wanting to try you out. I've learned over the years that competition is a good thing. Keeps one sharp. It's a big world out there and room for some competition so I will share with you what I know below. I'm sure your world is opening up from being accustom to using 10-12 colors down to trying to make these colorful jobs work on a 6 color manual press on dark shirts. :0 That is often more rewarding than simply using all the colors of a 10 or 12 color press + your printer is also more challenged and requires more printers skill to get them to look great. We have some very skilled printers using a 6 color manual or auto over the 10-12 color autos.
To your question,
We have multiple ways of saving photoshop channels so that the Corel users of the world who only print from Corel or do not even own Photoshop can print our seps. The most efficient manor (easiest for our Corel using customers) is to save them as a DCS2 file.
1, Once you create your spot color seps in photoshop, you take out all of the other remaining elements used such as any channel mask's and only keep the Spot color seps.
2, For DCS2 files (this is important), you must also keep the top channels of RGB. If you only worked in channels for any reason or you've already deleted your RGB channels, you will need to change the mode back to RGB. This can be a flat version of the original art in RGB. It does not interfere with your separations, but I prefer to try and keep it cleaner looking so I fill the RGB background layer with solid white or solid black.
3, Do a (SAVE AS) and scroll down to PHOTOSHOP DCS 2.0 (EPS) Your sep file will now be saved as an EPS and they can be a bit larger in file size, but I simply compress the file when I send anyways.
4, IMPORTANT: These are the steps that work most efficiently for me but each can be changed. UNDER PREVIEW, choose TIFF 8 bit pixel.
Under DCS, choose (SINGLE FILE) with COLOR COMPOSITE 72ppi.
Under ENCODING, use jpg, (Maximum quality).
I do NOT select any of the other options below the above options.
You can play with the other settings later to see what you like best, but this works.
5, Click SAVE.
Your end is done. Your customer only needs to place the file into Corel and they can now see the CUSTOM SPOT COLORS you used in their color list. They choose those and print. Because the DCS2 file also had the RGB channels includes, Corel will recognize some of this file to need to be converted to CMYK and will show those colors as printable. Make sure they know NOT to print these. No need. Black or solid sheets will print out if they do choose those CMYK colors.
I prefer the SINGLE FILE with color composite 72ppi so that all separations are placed into the Corel document all together. It's easier for them to select that one file and scale down or up if need be.
The original benefit of a DCS1 and 2 file is so that you can add vector art to (or over top of) bitmap art. For spot channel seps, placed into Corel or Illustrator, you can assign one of the listed photoshop spot colors to a line of vector type for example and have both vector and bitmap print out together on he same color sep. This is very convenient for name changes on name drop designs and is typically the standard streamlined procedures of a name drop company. They set up a bitmap separations and make the art that changes (vector) so that they can quickly go back into the master file and change Arizona to West Virginia for example.
When placing these into Illustrator, you must follow and additional important step.
When you open Illustrator and go to PLACE the DCS2 file, you MUST check LINK on the selection box at the bottom options window. If it is not checked, it will not see or recognize the DCS2 file.
Illustrator does not embed DCS2 files. It can only LINK them. Now, in addition, since it is a LINKED file, you must always keep the linked DCS2 file in it's original location folder.
It by chance you move it, and open the Illustrator file with the linked separations, you will get that error box that says "Can't locate the placed image" because it was moved from it's original location. So keep it in the same folder all the time. If you do move it, you will have to re-locate it and re-link it.
The other more time consuming and tedious method is to split the SPOT color channels in photoshop and re-name, and save each color file as a psd, tif, eps etc. And then they can be placed within a vector program for output.
Some of your customers are not familiar with either of these processes above and you will need to accommodate them using whatever method they are most comfortable with. Some go crazy getting a DCS2 file because they've never seen it before and want individual sep files.
Have fun.
Dot-Tone-Dan
-
What Z says is correct. For the newer versions of Illy and Corel, they recognize the psd spot colors in one file. I think it's Illy CS5 and up for Illy. Not sure about Corel but they are always one version behind Illy on new Illy features.
I'd add tho, that many of our sep customers have various versions of Illy and Corel and many are old versions. Just dropping the psd file does not always work for everyone.
Saving as a DCS2 file as a single file will work for all older versions of Illy and Corel. It's more universal.
-
Thanks guys for the tips, i'll try these out.
-
I've had mixed results outputting DCS2 files to .ps files for running through Ghostscript (I'm on a Mac). What I prefer to do now is split the channels to grayscale files, then place them on the equivalent number of artboards in Illustrator, each of which already has my registration marks and some placement guides that also line up with the overlay I've got taped to my Vastex platen jig so all films are relatively close in registration on the screens. I add any spot color text in the Illustrator file to take advantage of vector type, then print to file setting my screen angles, frequency and dot shape for each color. Open the .ps file in Ghostview and print.
So far this has been the most reliable way of getting stuff to print for me, and the halftones are very good. Adobe took all the good stuff out of the print dialog box in Photoshop with CS5, so I rely on Illustrator. I use an Agfa Imagesetter ppd as my printer when printing to file, which allows me to set up 11x17 and 13x18 films. I used to use Adobe PDF as my printer, but that's something else they've buggered up.
-
I've found the various rips and qualities of rip to be the biggest burr under my saddle. Everyone sets up a file so differently. A separation source can't rely on one consistent method.
Some require a psd channel file but with RGB mode.
Some with no RGB but saved as grayscale.
Some with no RGB and saved as Multi channel.
Some with just the multi channel file.
Some as DCS2 with RGB
Some as individual DCS2 grayscale files.
Some as tiffs
Some as psd files
Some as jpgs
The strangest one I've found is a customer wanted my grayscale spot color seps saved back into the RGB channels (as black) with each color on a different layer and saved with no spot color channels. Says he can only print from RGB layers. ??
Seriously, I get a new method every other week it seems.
-
Tom's and Z's methods of multi files placed into a vector program works just as well. The only draw back I find is that you have al of these individual files that can get moved around and out of registration by an accentual drag/move. So, the single file has been good t me.
Back in the day, we used that process as a standard as well, but we only needed to save them as an eps and placed them. No DCS. Then that came out and changed the game a little.
One thing I miss about the eps files is you used t be able to assign a different screen angle to each one in photoshop and embed that info in the file. So no matter what Illy was set up to, the Photoshop file would override Illy. So you could assign lest say, a test strip of 1% tints on up to 100% and the file was only 1" tall by 12" wide or whatever and drop each one into one vector file and print. Each strip would come out with 10lpi, 15 lpi, 20 lpi, on up to however many different ones you wanted to drop in. Was good for test files.
I'm sure (some how) you can still do it but I haven't needed to for a while so never dug into it.
I hear Corel will let you assign different halftones to each element. Freehand used to do that as well.
Freehand was pretty cool. You could assign many different funky things like mezzo tins, stipples, diamonds, ellipse, round dots, to different elements and have them all print out on the same separation. That was postsript language tho.
-
Freehand was pretty cool. You could assign many different funky things like mezzo tins, stipples, diamonds, ellipse, round dots, to different elements and have them all print out on the same separation. That was postsript language tho.
Yes, I found it quite disheartening when Adobe, their third owner, showed their true intentions of letting Freehand and some of its superior features die rather than keeping the program, or even utilizing those features into a new improved Illustrator.
Reminds me a bit of Hirsch actually completely killing US Screen and its T-Jet competition under the guise of infusing them with much needed capital.
-
There's some version of Freehand that will work under OSX on the Mac. The shop in Daytona I work at some uses it almost exclusively. The artist they use for their hot rod art still uses Freehand. I don't know if this is something that's been jerry-rigged post-Adobe, or if Adobe has made some unpublished accommodations, but it seems there's a Freehand fanbase out there using it on current operating systems (on the Mac side, anyway).
This is the site of the artist who does a lot of their work. He used to be on staff, and he recently did the Turkey Run art for the shop:
http://www.adamicenogle.com (http://www.adamicenogle.com)
Maybe anyone interested could contact him and get the skinny on it.
-
Right... yes Dan, I should have mentioned that recent versions of Corel and AI don't require DCS 2.0, just PSD
I think I could do it with Illo CS3 but not sure when it started. DCS 2.0 will work with earlier versions, but file sizes can be large.
And yes, Freehand was cool. As much as I like Illustrator, I hope Adobe never buys Corel 'cause I'd hate to see DRAW absorbed into the Adobe gas-giant never to be seen again.
-
Yah know..I don't want to start the new year off wrong, but,
geez Dan, wtf was that all about?
Feel the hunger yet?
..
PSD Channel file.
Import it into Corel, or drag it into an open document.
You will have a grouped object ( multi channel file, each channel is a greyscale bitmap )
Ungroup it.
Select each layer ( object in Corel ) one at a time, put on a a seperate page, or beside each other, or whatever rubs you right.
Select the element you want to print and 'print selected' through your rip.
I've output PS though Corel for years.
If you don't have a RIP, you bitmap it ( 1 bit, line freq/angle ) in Photoshop, THEN put it into Corel,
or you could manually convert the greyscale to 1 bit through Photopaint, while in Draw.
Hope that was clear enough.
I'm here all week.
8)
-
That was a strange jab for sure.
-
Excuse me. I havent learned to say everything just how the tenderfoots prefer it to make the way you think more comfortable. Maybe I didn't say " let's be friends" as easily as you would like or exactly as you would like. I have a habit of sometimes clearing up questions openly. On a from or in types, it doesn't come across to "everyone" as it should have. With that said, piss on it, Happy New Year.
I felt what I said was sort of clearing the air of any questions openly to him.. To say, no questions here, no harm, no foul, Opening up a little. like saying, Hey, let's be pals. He didn't comment on it like you two, so why ignight something that was never intended is what Im thinking. Sort of like calling the kettle black.
-
Perhaps I read it wrong, just wondered why you took a jab at Z..
Hence my comment, no tender feet here.
As for the explanation you gave, that's all good.
Seems like one needs to write alot of info, when one tries to explain some of the older methods.
What I wrote above, is all I've ever bothered with, for my own work, or what I send out.
Although, I do label the plates and such manually.
-
A lot gets miss construed in trying to convey your thoughts and processes in type. For example, I have no idea what your referring to as in a Jab at Z.
I was writing my long post apparently the same time he posted his and he got in before me. Happens often. From what I see, I don't think he's assuming I made a jab at him either. Might just be how people read things differently. All I did was give my experiences with separating for a wide variety of shops, you get customers that are using Illy version 4. Not CS4, but 4. That far back is rare, of course, but it's true. Probably 10% of Corel and Illy customers are still using something old like Illy 9 is very common. Corel 12 is common.
So my point was to say that DCS2 is a safe option to save seps for. When I started doing that, my problems stopped.
I assumed you two thought the jab was at Scott (MySeps). And in that case, it was not my intention to "jab" anyone, but to try to develop an understanding. He's very good at seps and yes, some of my people are going to him. Some to try him out and some because maybe I can't get to their job. That's cool and always has been. Even with art. Even Z is somewhat of a competitor as well. He does great art and even gets into seps as well. We share many of the same customers as Myseps and I would..
Z and I have been friends for years and I will even try to send him work now and then. So we have a business relationship as well as a forum friendship. His political thinking can be a little different than mine, but he's ok anyhow, :)
With Scott from myseps, I was trying to sort of develop a similar relationship. Maybe a crazy approach, I can't foresee how everyone takes my post so, it is what it is.
-
Jab this!
(http://www.smart.co.uk/jabberwocky/jabx38.jpg)
-
I believe Dan's references to "Scott" are to MySeps Scott. We're pals me and Dan...
... but business is business... I drink your milkshake! :P
I Drink Your Milkshake! There Will Be Blood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nQ9YQt7N8s#ws)
-
And this is why one should read a post not once, not twice, but thrice,
before opening one's mouth.
My apologies.
:-[
Love that Jabberwocky poster.
-
There's some version of Freehand that will work under OSX on the Mac. The shop in Daytona I work at some uses it almost exclusively. The artist they use for their hot rod art still uses Freehand. I don't know if this is something that's been jerry-rigged post-Adobe, or if Adobe has made some unpublished accommodations, but it seems there's a Freehand fanbase out there using it on current operating systems (on the Mac side, anyway).
This is the site of the artist who does a lot of their work. He used to be on staff, and he recently did the Turkey Run art for the shop:
[url]http://www.adamicenogle.com[/url] ([url]http://www.adamicenogle.com[/url])
Maybe anyone interested could contact him and get the skinny on it.
That would be Freehand MX, which my wife loved to death, literally, because when I had to get her a new machine, it wouldn't run in Leopard... By the way, you can set up Illustrator to look somewhat like Freehand, it's an option in the View menu I think...
Steve
-
I thought Dan did a nice job of showing different methods to do this. I've been using DCS files for a long, long time, importing them into Illustrator as early as Version 5.0, not CS5, but 5.0. Dan's outline was pretty straightforward I thought. And Scott's addtions (Command Z that is) were right on too. For the last couple of years, I simply import the PSD into Illy and go. What I thought was really odd, was that Scott (MySeps) was asking a question that was so fundamental, because his samples of his work show excellent qualities. All the other methods like saving individual files, and converting to bitmapped halftones in PS before exporting also work great, but were the processes of 10 years ago. It's much simpler now to create in PS, save the separation channels as spot color, keep the RGB channels (so they preview well in Illy) and drop them onto our register mark template, set line count and angle in the Illy separation dialog and print. I've tried every method written here, and they all work. Anyway, great discussion and free flow of ideas to help each other out, and the lurkers who are looking for help but may be too shy to ask... Happy New Year everybody!
Steve
-
No Prob. chadwick. We just a little esplain'n to do. No harm, no foul.
Sbrem.
Scott from MySeps probably needed to ask the questions (as I did early on) due to working at larger shops previously that for the most part had never heard of Corel Draw. My first 10 years in the business until freelancing much more, I had never used and probably never heard of Corel Draw other than hearing about Painter. The larger shops are typically prone to having customers that deal directly with art departments that have used Illustrator and Photoshop and run on Macs. A large shop can run all PC and all Corel just as easily for recieving files from inside your own art department, but as we know, receiving files from all sorts of company's on the outside, you tend to go where the majority of your file are coming from.
10-15 years ago, I was stumbling around trying to figure out how to save my files for Corel and never owning one till the last few years, I was never 100% sure what I was doing was the most efficient. I had to go by what customers receiving my files told me of their experiences using the file. All in all, this seemed to be the most common method that worked.
Businesses like design houses in large company's and ad agencies. They all predominately use Adobe products. I'm not arguing the reasons why. They just do. With that said, while Corel is a good program especially for screen printers, it's still not widely recognized by the design world. It's growing in popularity and is indeed a great program. Maybe one day, it will also be embeded into half of the those types of businesses. Most all again, use Adobe products and most are on Macs. I say "most". I'm sure we have exceptions. This has been that way for decades but Corel is expanding it's territory fast.
-
No Prob. chadwick. We just a little esplain'n to do. No harm, no foul.
Sbrem.
Scott from MySeps probably needed to ask the questions (as I did early on) due to working at larger shops previously that for the most part had never heard of Corel Draw. My first 10 years in the business until freelancing much more, I had never used and probably never heard of Corel Draw other than hearing about Painter. The larger shops are typically prone to having customers that deal directly with art departments that have used Illustrator and Photoshop and run on Macs. A large shop can run all PC and all Corel just as easily for recieving files from inside your own art department, but as we know, receiving files from all sorts of company's on the outside, you tend to go where the majority of your file are coming from.
10-15 years ago, I was stumbling around trying to figure out how to save my files for Corel and never owning one till the last few years, I was never 100% sure what I was doing was the most efficient. I had to go by what customers receiving my files told me of their experiences using the file. All in all, this seemed to be the most common method that worked.
Businesses like design houses in large company's and ad agencies. They all predominately use Adobe products. I'm not arguing the reasons why. They just do. With that said, while Corel is a good program especially for screen printers, it's still not widely recognized by the design world. It's growing in popularity and is indeed a great program. Maybe one day, it will also be embeded into half of the those types of businesses. Most all again, use Adobe products and most are on Macs. I say "most". I'm sure we have exceptions. This has been that way for decades but Corel is expanding it's territory fast.
Plus, a lot of us freelancers just provide the sepped art via the WWW and don't usually deal with output, since most shops handle that on their end using their own set-up templates and specs.
-
Well said Dan. I was working for me, so I had to figure stuff out, and like you, did quite a bit of stumbling, especially on trying to use stochastic instead of halftones. That was when I ran into a program called Plate Maker, which essentially organized PS's DCS function into a simple dialog box. Now, I've never really used CD (I had version 6 for Mac, didn't like it) so I suppose maybe I shouldn't have commented on it, I just assumed it had similar import and export functions to other programs like Illy and Freehand. But he has the info now. (Again Scott, my apologies if I came across as an AH) I love this forum.
Steve
-
Thats right, i've never seen or used Corel before. I thought Photoshop was the "standard" and that is all that was used for raster separations. Also in my earlier years I was told just to "make it look as good as it can using up to 13 colors". There really was no pressure to conserve colors. That is until I started getting more hands on in the shop, and I saw what a headache that many colors can be. Sure we had the capabilities to print that many colors, but its just more screens and registration to deal with. Now I only use as many colors as needed, without going into excess.
-
One nice thing about putting your channels into a Corel file, is the format's file compression.
I know Illy is using compression now, or it's now a default or something, since I can't always open newer files,
but that's another story, and I don't use it on a regular basis.
I don't have any hard numbers here, but it's always been a smaller file for me to send out,
as opposed to sending a PSD, which helps when using email for sending files.
( some of my PSD's get right out of hand,file size-wise )