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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Action1 on January 01, 2013, 12:01:15 PM

Title: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 01, 2013, 12:01:15 PM
We've had many inquiries from manual screen printers on roller squeegees. Please offer your critical feedback on this pictured solution. I have some concerns regarding the effectiveness of this tool when being used manually. My main concerns are the pressure that a person can employ and the fatigue issue versus a machine. Do you think this will work? Any advice or feedback is appreciated.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Gilligan on January 01, 2013, 12:12:26 PM
It will flop over.

The pivot point is the roller and your putting our hands way above that pivot point.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: tpitman on January 01, 2013, 12:13:42 PM
I don't understand the concept of any advantage a roller squeegee might offer to begin with, but the design you show won't work. The axis of the roller and the axis of the handle are on two different planes. It's not like a baker's rolling pin, which it should be to work at all. Trying to hold your model while applying any pressure to it will be difficult, as your hands will tend to go over or under the direction of pressure you're applying. It's like trying to balance on a perfectly round log and roll it without falling off.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but from the looks of your picture, that's what I see as a problem.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: tpitman on January 01, 2013, 12:14:23 PM
It will flop over.

The pivot point is the roller and your putting our hands way above that pivot point.

You put it more elegantly.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: DannyGruninger on January 01, 2013, 12:17:11 PM
If the roller material itself is Teflon or similar I know it will work. If the roller material is the same as the ones we have from you guys that we use on our auto my gut says no because the time it takes a manual to spin the table, lower the screen and print is too long for the flattening to be achieved. I'm sure it will help but not to full effect. I built a similar smaller unit we use at the end of the dryer sometimes for metallic prints and gel prints which is a small Teflon sheet lined rolling pin. It helps so I don't see why yours wouldn't granted the roller has the right surface material on it.


Danny
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: mooseman on January 01, 2013, 12:22:54 PM
Way off base for manual guys plus Gilli  & tpitman are  100% right mechanically it will never work, My face would be slammin into the paltten in two seconds...which kinda explains a lot about me :P How in heck could you grip this thing well enough to keep it from rotating within your grip.
Add some under the arm outriggers and ove the arm stabilizers, cantilever the roller out about 18 to 20 inches from the grip point  and park a small compacted bus on it between the grip & roller.

By the way when will you show us what you are really thinking..... ;)

mooseman
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Inkworks on January 01, 2013, 12:25:55 PM
A little off tangent, but maybe a teflon roller following a flashback on a Javelin/Freedom would be a good idea, Almost zero dwell between flash and smooth and you wouldn't lose a head.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 01, 2013, 12:31:20 PM
Thank you guys. Yes I do see your points regarding the pivot location. I agree that it would be cumbersome as shown. So may I redirect the question as to the viability of doing it by hand. I think we can redesign the assembly to be balanced and controllable. But - will it work manually?

Danny - are you saying that the print will cool down too much by the time you get to it? Please elaborate your thought sir.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Inkworks on January 01, 2013, 12:33:55 PM
For a manual use two rollers, that will solve the flip-flop issue. Like below:
 o
OO
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 01, 2013, 12:40:10 PM
For a manual use two rollers, that will solve the flip-flop issue. Like below:
 o
OO

Great suggestion. We had recently developed a double roller squeegee & I think most of the design can be applied as you described - see picture. This is a design still on the drawing table - look for it soon though. Feedback on this is also greatly appreciated.
Title: Feedback request
Post by: sweetts on January 01, 2013, 12:56:38 PM
What about a rail system or unit that is a complete frame where the pressure can be dialed in maybe mount it to a static frame?


RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Gilligan on January 01, 2013, 12:59:05 PM
For a manual use two rollers, that will solve the flip-flop issue. Like below:
 o
OO
Still won't work as pictured in the first with those round handles so high up.

You would need more meat to hold on to... this is why squeegee handles are designed the way they are.  I'm all for reinventing the wheel if you can make a better wheel but in this case it seems like the handle aspect is very after thought to your product.  For manual printing the handle should be the first thought as fatigue will be worse if it's poorly designed.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 01, 2013, 01:03:05 PM
For a manual use two rollers, that will solve the flip-flop issue. Like below:
 o
OO
Still won't work as pictured in the first with those round handles so high up.

You would need more meat to hold on to... this is why squeegee handles are designed the way they are.  I'm all for reinventing the wheel if you can make a better wheel but in this case it seems like the handle aspect is very after thought to your product.  For manual printing the handle should be the first thought as fatigue will be worse if it's poorly designed.


I agree 100% with your analysis of the design. It's back to the drawing board for the handle design.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 01, 2013, 01:07:40 PM
What about a rail system or unit that is a complete frame where the pressure can be dialed in maybe mount it to a static frame?

RT Screen Designs
[url=http://www.rtscreendesigns.com]www.rtscreendesigns.com[/url] ([url]http://www.rtscreendesigns.com[/url])


Thank you for the input sir. This was an idea we considered. The frame would also have to lock on the underside of the pallet for the pressure to be accomplished. If not - the frame would simply lift up on it's hinging. Maybe...but it starts getting complicated and time consuming. Perhaps not all tools that work for autos are as appealing for manuals. maybe this is another justification for using an auto where a manual would work?

This is all all very good feedback and I thank all of you very much. Any more?
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Denis Kolar on January 01, 2013, 01:15:02 PM
This would be much cheaper :)
(http://www.mostphotos.com/preview/72372/kitchen-roller.jpg)

 ::)
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Frog on January 01, 2013, 01:50:04 PM
Doesn't this process hinge in being able to use this immediately after flashing?
Though not impossible to arrange, will most manual users have a flash unit right next to them for this?

Otherwise, the rolling pin without even bothering with a screen is not that crazy.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Inkworks on January 01, 2013, 01:53:52 PM
Yup, you could wrap a Teflon sheet around it too...
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on January 01, 2013, 02:47:01 PM
I hate to be the bad guy here but what in the world are the benefits of trying to use this device(even reworked)in a manual shop.. would the results really outweigh the time, effort to use this tool? will it help generate higher profits?
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Inkworks on January 01, 2013, 03:52:56 PM
I hate to be the bad guy here but what in the world are the benefits of trying to use this device(even reworked)in a manual shop..

Smoother base coats
Improved detail in top colours
No need to heat press for fussy customers
Nicer finished product on ring-spuns and fleece


Quote
would the results really outweigh the time, effort to use this tool? will it help generate higher profits?

Both of those depend on the execution, but you're probably right to wonder. It would be easy to make it an extra step that you don't get paid for if you didn't sell it or execute it correctly.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Frog on January 01, 2013, 04:09:59 PM
I hate to be the bad guy here but what in the world are the benefits of trying to use this device(even reworked)in a manual shop.. would the results really outweigh the time, effort to use this tool? will it help generate higher profits?

Obviously the benefit would be to match the quality of the same print being produced in a shop equipped with an auto and a roller/smoothing screen set-up.
The execution, as I pointed out, could take a little more work in positioning the flash. We already accept the fact that unlike an auto, a manual requires proportionally more work for more colors.
This is just one more step.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 02, 2013, 08:16:50 AM
Hi all - sorry I dropped out early yesterday. It was time to watch football. After hearing your input, we think the application of the roller squeegee to manual printing is not going to yield consistent appreciation from our customers. We are going to therefore put it on the very back burner. We're moving to other ideas to develop. Thank you gentlemen for your valuable insights. We should employ some type of incentive to the fine people here who offer there expert opinions. Any expert advice on that?  :)
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: tonypep on January 02, 2013, 08:23:46 AM
Sure wheres my 1 color allover press? Haha gues I'll build it myslef. Happy New Year Buddy!
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 02, 2013, 09:09:07 AM
Sure wheres my 1 color allover press? Haha gues I'll build it myslef. Happy New Year Buddy!

Happy New Year to you also Tony!

We won't be making presses anytime soon. There are companies doing a really great job with that already.
Some of those are our best customers and we don't compete with our customers.
There's still plenty of fun to be had focusing on our current areas of interest.

Title: Feedback request
Post by: sweetts on January 02, 2013, 10:22:46 AM
I think a Teflon rolling pin is the answer no screen involved, I wonder if those plastic ones that claim to not pick up the dough would work???? Maybe a trip to the bakery shop is in order.


RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Gilligan on January 02, 2013, 10:28:23 AM
I think a Teflon rolling pin is the answer no screen involved, I wonder if those plastic ones that claim to not pick up the dough would work???? Maybe a trip to the bakery shop is in order.


RT Screen Designs
[url=http://www.rtscreendesigns.com]www.rtscreendesigns.com[/url] ([url]http://www.rtscreendesigns.com[/url])


Worse case scenario if it doesn't work, you go make some cookies!
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: Action1 on January 02, 2013, 11:04:35 AM
I think a Teflon rolling pin is the answer no screen involved, I wonder if those plastic ones that claim to not pick up the dough would work???? Maybe a trip to the bakery shop is in order.


RT Screen Designs
[url=http://www.rtscreendesigns.com]www.rtscreendesigns.com[/url] ([url]http://www.rtscreendesigns.com[/url])



Yes - but because the key to the process is rolling it quickly with lots of pressure & while it is still hot - it seems like the fatigue issue and other logistics prohibit the use. I wouldn't want to do it...I think we should let that one go. Many people have mentioned it, but I just really can't see it working consistently.

Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: artprofile on January 25, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
Greetings!
Give somebody working here with this: http://www.actionengineering.com/Prod-23-1-3681-1076/MR_Style_Double_Stroke_Squeegeebr_16in.хтм (http://www.actionengineering.com/Prod-23-1-3681-1076/MR_Style_Double_Stroke_Squeegeebr_16in.хтм)

Thanks for any response.
Title: Re: Feedback request
Post by: 3Deep on January 25, 2013, 04:39:38 PM
Don't like the handles on the outside, but if you want this thing to work on manuals use a manual squeegee handle and some kind of clutch to adjust the roller speed movement.  Free roller movement would make this thing roll way to fast and cuz Moose to fall on his face.

Darryl