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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: TCT on January 22, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
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I will have a few more pics latter today, limited time now. But here is a "teaser".... ;)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0057_zpsbf545d67.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0059_zpsbba729eb.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0061_zps4f98344d.jpg)
I should get more up latter!
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Good stuff Alex its a great machine, you will be very happy i am sure
keep us up to date.
Also I may add it was great meeting you in Long Beach
Alan
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Nice meeting you too Alan. There were a lot of great people we met there.
I had originally planned on video recording the whole install BUT.... The -18 degree weather we have been having damaged the cameras I was going to use. NOTE to all: cheep security cameras from ebay can make it to about -5 ::) SO no install video, more pics though and we will get some video footage up soon.
Half the heads on-
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0062_zps90bea1c5.jpg)
Print head and look at that pallet arm!
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0063_zpsde0ddfac.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0072_zpscf2fd039.jpg)
All the print heads on-
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0066_zpsfe492d38.jpg)
Print heads and pallet arms on-
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0070_zpsffbdb034.jpg)
Indexer!
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/100_0064_zps47b12bd4.jpg)
We start printing tomorrow and will update!
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Chain driven? hmmm. I remember the chain driven Precisions. I think they were phased out because of issues with the chains. Something about the chain stretching due to torque and making it go out of registration and needing adjusted every few months or more. I wonder if this had been improved on and what the benefits are over other options.
NOTE, I don't claim to know much about presses. Just mentioning something I remember about the precisions from way back.
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
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SR claims that owners will only have to flip the chain every 1million impressions or so. Also if a tooth on the spocket breaks off or is damaged the bad section can be replaced, not the entire sprocket.
Alan may be able to elaborate or correct me if I am wrong.
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
Fat birdie also says a Playtex prints 20 inches, they come in 12 weeks, and that he is the greatest thing to happen to the screen print world.
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The chain is supposed to be replaced every 5 million cycles.
The fat one has NOTHING to do with these presses. He invited himself to their factory a few years ago to snap some pics.
I would have to say the chain drive here is a world of difference from the old school Precision Ovals. What were the chain lengths on those 20 -30 feet? This one is 2 feet tops, and is not responsible for ALL the breaking and locking either. There is a separate device for that. I feel very confident in the press and the company.
I have limited time this morning, but I will check back after the day.
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hello everyone
Alex some great pics looks like it is coming along well.
to Elaborate on some post.
Dan you are correct , precision and others did have chains and there were problems but lets remember that was 20 years ago , the chain encompassed the whole base on those machines
the SR ECO chain as you can see in the picture is indexing at smaller section at a time, so no stretch.
the chain is double sided and yes flip it1 Million prints, after 2 million prints/ 5 million cycles change the chain , only a few hundred dollars and should only take 20-30 min. just part of routine up keep
Chris , you are also correct on the teeth of the sprocket are also doubled so if a tooth is broken and its just one side the machine will keep running , you can replace sections at a time, I believe the sections are only a few feet if I remember.
This is a very exciting press,
just as an FYI Tech Support will be showing an S.Roque RoqYou 8 color 10 station with foil, and the very first showing of the new S.Roque Amiga entry level press at ISS A.C. Island 1209 one of 2 Island we will have please come and see us. March 8-10 Atlantic City NJ
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
Fat birdie also says a Playtex prints 20 inches, they come in 12 weeks, and that he is the greatest thing to happen to the screen print world.
That's just heresay!!! You can't believe everything people say about him on the internet can you? Nobody has to answer, it was rhetorical for those who didn't pick up on that.
THE BUILT IN TENSIONER, BUILT IN TENSIONER, remember guys, it has the tensioner built in so you can always keep the chain tight. I don't know jack about this feature really but I do have plenty of experience with chain driven ATV's, motorcycles and dirt bikes and the damned sprockets that go along with them. I will concede there is a lot of difference in the tension put on the chains I'm used to and the chain on an automatic press. Honestly I like the design overall, the quality of the chain, sprocket and the strain on it will determine it's longevity. I'm sure they know what they are doing and know all the stuff we know, but barney sure as hell didn't do them any favors with his comments.
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if you pull the chain off, wouldn't it be easier to just toss a new one on? If it's anything like a chainsaw chain you will spend more time trying to get the 1 freaking loop out of it than you will cutting down trees.
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I am really interested in seeing the mechanics behind the print and stroke assembly, I know it is not done with air cylinders so how ever it works should be really interesting.
Did anyone see the Sroque pre-registration unit? I watched the video on it and was far far from impressed, I could smoke that thing with a ruler and roll of tape.
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
Fat birdie also says a Playtex prints 20 inches, they come in 12 weeks, and that he is the greatest thing to happen to the screen print world.
That's just heresay!!! You can't believe everything people say about him on the internet can you? Nobody has to answer, it was rhetorical for those who didn't pick up on that.
THE BUILT IN TENSIONER, BUILT IN TENSIONER, remember guys, it has the tensioner built in so you can always keep the chain tight. I don't know jack about this feature really but I do have plenty of experience with chain driven ATV's, motorcycles and dirt bikes and the damned sprockets that go along with them. I will concede there is a lot of difference in the tension put on the chains I'm used to and the chain on an automatic press. Honestly I like the design overall, the quality of the chain, sprocket and the strain on it will determine it's longevity. I'm sure they know what they are doing and know all the stuff we know, but barney sure as hell didn't do them any favors with his comments.
I had a 350 Warrior for years, I chewed through sprockets like crazy, even after market ones. My 400EX went through a few as well, not sure if any real comparission to the auto but I do not like chain and sprocket all that much on anything.
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
Fat birdie also says a Playtex prints 20 inches, they come in 12 weeks, and that he is the greatest thing to happen to the screen print world.
He also breathes oxygen and over eats, yet that hasn't stopped you from thinking it's a good idea. ;)
Point is, that it's POSSIBLE that not everything that ever comes out of his mouth is a lie. I'd never bet any money on it, but I also wouldn't automatically think the complete opposite.
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if you pull the chain off, wouldn't it be easier to just toss a new one on? If it's anything like a chainsaw chain you will spend more time trying to get the 1 freaking loop out of it than you will cutting down trees.
Unless that is what "flipping" it is then I don't think you will need to pull a link out to adjust it. That adjuster should do fine.
Everyone does realize that many engines still use a chain for a "timing belt" right?
Just because it's "different" doesn't mean it's bad or just because one use of something is bad doesn't mean every use of something is bad.
You would swear it's an assault weapon and not a chain. ;)
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I am really interested in seeing the mechanics behind the print and stroke assembly, I know it is not done with air cylinders so how ever it works should be really interesting.
Did anyone see the Sroque pre-registration unit? I watched the video on it and was far far from impressed, I could smoke that thing with a ruler and roll of tape.
the one you saw was for their 3 point registration. they show how you have to set it up initially for the screen size etc (assuming this is the correct video) but the pin system is far easier that what the video shows
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
Fat birdie also says a Playtex prints 20 inches, they come in 12 weeks, and that he is the greatest thing to happen to the screen print world.
He also breathes oxygen and over eats, yet that hasn't stopped you from thinking it's a good idea. ;)
Point is, that it's POSSIBLE that not everything that ever comes out of his mouth is a lie. I'd never bet any money on it, but I also wouldn't automatically think the complete opposite.
Never said it was all a lie, but consider the source is all. Remember he want's you to believe anything other than the way M&R does it is the best way. Regardless if it is or it isn't. He forms his opinions based on those intentions more often than fact, rather than it just being "another way to do it", it's almost always the new "best" way to do it.
Which yes I am sure at some point he has been right about something. He has shot in the dark so many times he's bound to hit something at some point.
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I think the chain drive is a smart idea. Gilly is right that a lot of cars still use them, most have switched to belts though.
SRoque certainly isn't new to the game, they have tons of presses out there and I am sure it's a perfectly fine way of doing things. If not they would sell like playtex presses.
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A chain that size and double roller has little potential for stretch. Usually lack of maintenance, shock loads and slack are what stretches a chain. If the programming is correct the servo motor should ramp up then down to eliminate any kind of shock, tensioner which appears to be self regulating keeps the slack out. Just the weight of a long chain will cause it to stretch, short chain not so much.The press relies on the chain for indexing only, the air operated dog keeps the registration in check. So if there was a little stretch the machine could compensate for it. I will assume the machine has a tooth counter to tell it where it is in the rotation.
A dirt bike chain is obviously much smaller and exposed to dirt and grit which will reduce the chain and sprockets life. Here the chain is protected from the elements which could cause premature failure.
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I thought the same thing and some fat birdie pointed out that it is a really short chain... so maybe it won't be bad.
I surely hope so!
Fat birdie also says a Playtex prints 20 inches, they come in 12 weeks, and that he is the greatest thing to happen to the screen print world.
He also breathes oxygen and over eats, yet that hasn't stopped you from thinking it's a good idea. ;)
Point is, that it's POSSIBLE that not everything that ever comes out of his mouth is a lie. I'd never bet any money on it, but I also wouldn't automatically think the complete opposite.
Never said it was all a lie, but consider the source is all. Remember he want's you to believe anything other than the way M&R does it is the best way. Regardless if it is or it isn't. He forms his opinions based on those intentions more often than fact, rather than it just being "another way to do it", it's almost always the new "best" way to do it.
Which yes I am sure at some point he has been right about something. He has shot in the dark so many times he's bound to hit something at some point.
Which is why I mentioned that he pointed out that it was a short chain (a fact). Dan was speaking of the old precisions and I'm sure they had a MUCH longer chain and just given what Dan knows about that and realizing what I failed to realize at first that this is a short chain might clear things up enough for Dan to come to a different conclusion. Regardless of source of said fact.
Now that being said... you know he would be the first to talk about how bad of an idea this is IF M&R had used it on a press. ;)
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The chain on an 8 color oval was about 35 feet long FYI
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A chain that size and double roller has little potential for stretch. Usually lack of maintenance, shock loads and slack are what stretches a chain. If the programming is correct the servo motor should ramp up then down to eliminate any kind of shock, tensioner which appears to be self regulating keeps the slack out. Just the weight of a long chain will cause it to stretch, short chain not so much.The press relies on the chain for indexing only, the air operated dog keeps the registration in check. So if there was a little stretch the machine could compensate for it. I will assume the machine has a tooth counter to tell it where it is in the rotation.
A dirt bike chain is obviously much smaller and exposed to dirt and grit which will reduce the chain and sprockets life. Here the chain is protected from the elements which could cause premature failure.
Exactly what I was going to say. I was hoping someone would note that the chain isn't used for registration. Just like a servo/air indexer isn't used for registration, the press still has registration forks. NOTHING like the old ovals which relied on the chain's position to register the bottom end of the pallet, and the top registered to a V-shaped nylon bumper on each pallet, but different bumpers on each print station, IE nightmare registration.
Looks like a really nice press. A non-conventional way of mechanics similar to the voodoo of MHM presses which are also impressive.
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Mike, the Warrior!!! I had a warrior for a little over 5 years and it was a bullet proof machine. I sold it to buy a dirt bike when I graduated high school. I bet I put 50K miles on that warrior, at least 50K. My dirt bike had an odometer and I put 35K on it in 5 years and I drove the Yamaha way more than I did the KDX 220 dirt bike. I drove it around the country side like most drive a car. I was independent at about age 12 to roam the back country roads where I grew up and even after I got my DL, I still drove my four wheeler half the time. The warrior has to be one of the best machines ever built, a true classic. True, there are much faster and stronger machines these days but I bet more miles of troublefree fun were put on warriors than just about any other ATV in history.
Only issue I had with the warrior was when my chain broke at a high rate of speed. It cracked the oil reservior and I got a pretty nasty burn on my leg from the hot oil spewing out. I got some JB Weld and put it over the crack and got another 3 years of troublefree miles out of it.
Sorry for the threadjack, it does have a little to do with chain wear and sprockets though, but more about remembering the good old days.
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I loved my Warrior, I bought it when they were still new in the market, the sprocket problem never went a way tho. I believe today looking back on it something between the wheel and drive was misaligned who knows. I ended up trading up to a Raptor which was no different than the warrior in any real way, sold that and bought a souped up 400ex, that machine was frightening. I used it in the winter for ice racing, bout the only damn thing I miss of Pennsylvania. Oh yea had a few dirt bikes as well, cr250, my favorite tho was my XR250.
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Also, no one has pointed out that the chain is used for indexing only, and not registration like it was on the Ovals.
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Also, no one has pointed out that the chain is used for indexing only, and not registration like it was on the Ovals.
Brian did.....
The press relies on the chain for indexing only, the air operated dog keeps the registration in check. So if there was a little stretch the machine could compensate for it. I will assume the machine has a tooth counter to tell it where it is in the rotation.
Now that being said... you know he would be the first to talk about how bad of an idea this is IF M&R had used it on a press. ;)
Exactly my point. Chain being a good or bad idea I wasn't debating at all ;)
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How many of you guys can built a perfect press? LOL some you I think might have missed your calling to be a manufacturer or at least a consultant for a press manufacture ;D...just pulling yall's chain pun intended. Presses are getting better, 10 yeas from now, no telling what goodies that might have...programmable job heads if they don't already have them. Oh and I hate to say this but ole fat boy might be a fool, but he knows a little also.
Darryl
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As the chain stretches, it will cause the indexer to become more and more out of alignment with the registration. This will put more burden (and friction) on the registration system to move the indexer into postion.
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As the chain stretches, it will cause the indexer to become more and more out of alignment with the registration. This will put more burden (and friction) on the registration system to move the indexer into postion.
To what degree Paul? I mean, this could be one of those issues like having screens under standard fluorescent lighting vs amber. Negligible. It is possible that the chain will have a tighter hold than your standard air or servo index +/- stop point. Could be that even in it's worse points it's better than those as far as stopping dead center before registration system comes in. Could be that when new it's tighter but when older it's worse and it averages out, or it averages better, or it averages worse.
These are unknown to most of us and I'd love to hear if anyone does know better at this point as that would solve this question.
On a side note, hope all is well with you and yours man, haven't seen/heard from you in a while (since the "transition").
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As the chain stretches, it will cause the indexer to become more and more out of alignment with the registration. This will put more burden (and friction) on the registration system to move the indexer into postion.
Well hello Paul!!!! Where the hell have you been for the past year? Good to see you back. Where are you nowadays?
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Looks like a sweet press for sure. Seems like the huge sprocket would be a great idea, that much more area to spread the indexing forces over.
And actually, M&R IS using a chain drive indexing system--just not on a round press.
Their oval Alpha 8 has a pretty beefy chain drive, IIRC a similar design independent of registration.
As far as wear with chain and registration, I don't see how it's likely to be much different than any other servo drive--it'd be truly amazing if they didn't have a way of calibrating where the beginning and end of the indexing motion is.
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I am sure the chain drive is not an issue. Like all of our presses the "drive" only turns the table to very close to the right position. Then there is either a registration fork or pin that makes the press dead on.
Great looking press. I would like to see a video of the display and how all the functions work on the XL model. I know the "YOU" I saw at the Vegas show this last year was a little lacking on functions. I can't live without my sample mode, clean mode and having all the adjustment on one screen like my E-type has. I guess is all about what your used to with autos.
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As the chain stretches, it will cause the indexer to become more and more out of alignment with the registration. This will put more burden (and friction) on the registration system to move the indexer into postion.
Well hello Paul!!!! Where the hell have you been for the past year? Good to see you back. Where are you nowadays?
I know I know.
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The chain is supposed to be replaced every 5 million cycles.
The fat one has NOTHING to do with these presses. He invited himself to their factory a few years ago to snap some pics.
I would have to say the chain drive here is a world of difference from the old school Precision Ovals. What were the chain lengths on those 20 -30 feet? This one is 2 feet tops, and is not responsible for ALL the breaking and locking either. There is a separate device for that. I feel very confident in the press and the company.
I have limited time this morning, but I will check back after the day.
How is the 5mil cycles calculated ? is it 5 mil. revolutions or 5 mil. indexes ( every 500k shirts on say a 8/10 press ?) just interested.
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As the chain stretches, it will cause the indexer to become more and more out of alignment with the registration. This will put more burden (and friction) on the registration system to move the indexer into postion.
There he is!! ;)