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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: blue moon on February 20, 2013, 11:27:53 AM
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I am about to switch away from the Sericol product as I ran into some trouble and am not getting a resolution I was hoping for. 'talking to the rep to see if they can meet my request.
This is rather disappointing as they seem to make a fine product.
I'll will update as it develops. . .
pierre
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do you mind sharing the problems your having?
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not yet.
pierre
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No worries plenty of other options, plenty. Only thing is you may now have to be a PC house. No that doesn't mean politically correct!
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Place-holder for a Sericol rant or....leverage? :-X
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There are other options, but they are the BEST at what they offer. A game changer is on its way to the market though, stay tuned!
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There are other options, but they are the BEST at what they offer. A game changer is on its way to the market though, stay tuned!
I am waiting for that too. I have heard some pretty good stuff about it. Pricey but it will come down. The only bad is it wont be for the guys with smaller dryers. I almost had my hands on some to play with but it fell through.
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There are other options, but they are the BEST at what they offer. A game changer is on its way to the market though, stay tuned!
I am waiting for that too. I have heard some pretty good stuff about it. Pricey but it will come down. The only bad is it wont be for the guys with smaller dryers. I almost had my hands on some to play with but it fell through.
I promised to keep my big mouth shut, but it will be unveiled on this forum soon. Hope to have samples next week.
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Its out all ready for the most part. We just cant buy it. It is all over where we are at. I think they are playing it this way for the hype...lol From what I have heard from someone doing the testing it is everything they say.
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Could it be that an ink chemist from Sericol took a job change? Hmmmm
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I am not sure if he is missing but the PVC is.
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The beans. Spill them.
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Y'all are a bunch of teases.
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Does it begin with a R?
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Unless we are talking about beginning with a C.
They both make great product. We are just trying to decide who to completely switch to. We just have tons of old Matsui we are working through. Might just give it away
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(http://mbworld.org/forums/members/hyperion667-156112-albums-deadbeat-2781-picture-a-30184.jpg)
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bastards
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it's been long enough. . . .what's the problem?
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There is a thread about it already!
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the problem I have is their sales tactics. I think they knew we were going to use them so they played hardball . . .
Everybody and their brother received 4 gallons of free ink, some even 8. They would not give it to us, but gave us a 50% discount. I did not complain about it much at first but it did not sit well with me. I figured we'd have the time to sort that out later. (strike 1)
Then I requested a price list and received a full MSRP without any discounts. Now, I have no problem with earning your way to the discounts, bt several other ppl passed along their pricing and they started with lower than MSRP price, but that was not to be offered to us. . . When I brought it up the answer was "Sorry, take it or leave it." No desire to make the customer happy. (strike 2)
So still hoping for some semblance of customer service, I emailed on monday listing the inks I would need for a job that needs to ship this week and the response came back on Wed. Now I could certainly have done more to get in touch with them (and I was about to), but two days to answer a time sensitive email is not really my idea of good customer service. But OK . . . In my answer to the email, I brought up the 50% rather than full discount we received on the samples and asked for the 50% on this order to come up something similar to what everybody else received. Was told NO, it is not happening. We can discount a little but not what you want. (strike 3).
We have a lot of ppl come in here and have NEVER asked for anything but what other ppl have received or something we have deserved; not once. For the most part, we get the same deal as everybody else and in many cases we pay for the samples and even pay for the product we test for the manufacturers.
All I was asking for was the same samples and the same pricing as everybody else, but they want us to pay more. Some way to take care of the customer, a high profile customer at that. . .
pierre
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3 options for you buddy
Rutland Five stars on CS. All products are first rate (I phone in orders) Tony Chapman is always available for tech suppport
Magna From Nazdar great product don't know if they have formulas. Zero tech support
CCI Haven't used pigments but formulas come from Pantone book. I am confused on how to buy as Nazdar wants to push Magna. Base and white are awesome. Don't no about tech support
All are PCs
Call me if you need to
tp
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Weve been using CCI discharge white, base, and pigments and are very happy with them. Cant ask for better service than what we get from Jaime Fernandez.
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I didn't know they were giving away free samples of their stuff. Shops were getting 4-8 gallons free? Wow, I would have loved to have gotten in on that generosity. I can't remember but I am pretty sure I paid full gallon price for the red and yellow I wanted to sample about a year ago. I go through a supplier in Houston for my sericol needs so I don't have to deal with poor customer service, and I wouldn't tolerate it either.
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3 options for you buddy
Rutland Five stars on CS. All products are first rate (I phone in orders) Tony Chapman is always available for tech suppport
Magna From Nazdar great product don't know if they have formulas. Zero tech support
CCI Haven't used pigments but formulas come from Pantone book. I am confused on how to buy as Nazdar wants to push Magna. Base and white are awesome. Don't no about tech support
All are PCs
Call me if you need to
tp
Magna is high on our list as we are already testing some product for Nazdar and have a good relationship with them. Another well known manufacturer has a new line of DC inks coming out and we have an opportunity to test/evaluate for them. It sounds pretty promising and offers more than Sericol, but it is not RFU.
I am sure a phone call or two would generate more opportunities. . .
pierre
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Pierre, just talk with your rep on this. Sericol is not used to doing"small" qty direct. My rep set me up with our starting pricing and it's important to make sure everyone at sericol has it noted on your account. They send gal samples bc that's the smallest they stock. If you just have an ornery rep, Atlas and Jim at Dimensional have decent enough pricing.
I hear you on this, I too often insist in paying for my samples other than initial ones for testing and do not ask for handouts so this must be frustrating.
That said, you will out grow a DC rfu system quickly. I now have cci pigs in the house and will be using a combo of the two. Some of the sericol colors are exceptional, right out of the bucket and I imagine we will use them for a long time to come but I'm a PC man and need that ability to boost.
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Pierre, just talk with your rep on this. Sericol is not used to doing"small" qty direct. My rep set me up with our starting pricing and it's important to make sure everyone at sericol has it noted on your account. They send gal samples bc that's the smallest they stock. If you just have an ornery rep, Atlas and Jim at Dimensional have decent enough pricing.
I hear you on this, I too often insist in paying for my samples other than initial ones for testing and do not ask for handouts so this must be frustrating.
That said, you will out grow a DC rfu system quickly. I now have cci pigs in the house and will be using a combo of the two. Some of the sericol colors are exceptional, right out of the bucket and I imagine we will use them for a long time to come but I'm a PC man and need that ability to boost.
I did exchange a few emails with him and they/him would not budge. I realize that they might not be set up for "small customers", but they are either doing those sales or not. If they are not interested, they should then stop selling it. It should be done right no matter the size.
At the end of the day we could have been a $20-$50k/year account for them. While not big, it is not that small either. The thing that makes even less sense is the free publicity (of the good kind rather than what's going on now) they would get from a high profile and what I hope is a respected shop using their product.
so crap service, crap sales . . .
pierre
and yes, I am on a tear, as being treated worse than others pushes my buttons!
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Pierre, I'm going to email my rep and tell him to straighten yours out. That's a very nice account and they are royally screwing it up. We are a comparatively tiny account and were treated much better. They have to shift the sales approach here and maybe all of their sales staff is not there yet.
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I had a Sericol rep here a few weeks ago and was not impressed with them. He wanted to say thank you to me for sending a few people his way. Other than that he seemed very dis interested when he saw my little shop. I asked about a distributorship as I am still seeking out the possibility of selling supplies and he flat out said no way they dont do that.
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Pierre, I'm going to email my rep and tell him to straighten yours out. That's a very nice account and they are royally screwing it up. We are a comparatively tiny account and were treated much better. They have to shift the sales approach here and maybe all of their sales staff is not there yet.
now, we are not at that level yet, and would probably be only $5k the first year. As we ramp up ans switch more and more to waterbased it would be in that range.
I am not sure I want to go back to their product. I think I'll stick with ppl that are actually interested in working with us. It makes for a much better relationship.
pierre
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As most know, Sericol is a division of Fuji Films. A very, very large conglomerate. Sericol has quietly been making discharge for over 15 ys and selling to a select few companies that were buying it in large quantities. It has always been a superior product. They never pushed it because (despite my valiant effforts!) no one wanted it.
Now I suppose I had something to do with the 4 gal free samples issues. Prior to landing here i was bopping around a bit helping people like Andy A getting their feet wet (pun intended) with DC. I had Sericol drop these 4 packs of flourescents like care packages. Then I mentioned here a few times. Corporate finally got wind of it and that is whats happening now. And they are not interested in qt container samples. Sorry Pierre but take light, a little bird told me CCI is really stepping up their game and is coming out with some knockout flourescents
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Well, I brought it up with my rep, who has been great so maybe they'll come around with you.
I do love their fluoros best of all. We now have the full set of mixing colors and I don't see us moving too far away from Sericol as a starting point for awhile. I'll use CCI pigs as needed for boosting unless I find the CCI superior.
So much is changing with ink right now, it's a little overwhelming. I was attracted to Sericol b/c, as Tony mentioned, they have been doing this for a long, long time and they really nail down their formulations. I like consistency with my ink.
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Call Dennis Stevenson 678-361-2546 or Marvin Foreman 704-299-3714 I bet your problems can get straightened out. Nice guys and helped me alot in the beginning. If its a pigment system you would rather go for, then ANY OF THEM WILL WORK. I like many here have been trying EVERYTHING on the market to get my colors where I need them. All were just ok, none of them were what I was expecting. I have had a rep from EVERY manufacturer at my shop doing demos, all with only so so results. Once you figure out the secret missing ingrediant, they all work. Just took me a while to figure it out. I am friendly with all of those companies, so I don't want to say it here publically to hurt any of them, But there is one thing none of them will tell you. Honestly, I don't think they know. Tony and a few others here have figured it out and I have seen it hinted at when I go back and read older posts.
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I've touched on this before but yes, sadly most of them know very little about the products they are selling compared to us. Believe me you should have seen how it was twenty fie years ago. Couldnt even get anyone to pick up the phone. You had to buy pigment in 5 gallon pails
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As for Magna Colors, just make an direct account with them in the UK and buy it at a cheaper rate. That`s what we are doing here in Japan. Their distributer in Singapore was about to charge us a fortune for their products and even more for the shipping. So I `ve explained them the situation and what do you know they offered right away to sell us directly. All shipped via FedEx too even though next time I will go for surface shipping and order well in advance. For questions we always email the girls at Magna in UK and they normally reply within 24hrs.
As for Sericol, in China they are not even part of FujiFilm anylonger. They where sold to an Australian company and they now manufacture all the Sericol inks which is a bummer as they have discontinued the RFU discharge inks. I remember as Sericol was still British owned.
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ordered 6-7 gallons of Sericol ink for a big job, 2 out of 3 of the colors we had to mix didn't turn out close at all but we figured it out with what we ordered. The pantone colors were pretty far off, almost right on for the green we mixed though
anyway the ink is working great and the job will be done on Monday, just not happy with the mixing of the colors for 2 of the pantones
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well, nothing from Sericol. I guess they are too big to care. 'pretty disappointing.
It makes me think, even if they do come with a good product as it has been hinted, would you really want to do business with them? I had several members here contact me and said they talked to their reps to try to have them sort it out, but nothing so far.
shame . . .
pierre
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I didn't know they were giving away free samples of their stuff. Shops were getting 4-8 gallons free? Wow, I would have loved to have gotten in on that generosity. I can't remember but I am pretty sure I paid full gallon price for the red and yellow I wanted to sample about a year ago. I go through a supplier in Houston for my sericol needs so I don't have to deal with poor customer service, and I wouldn't tolerate it either.
alan, i mentioned that to you that day we talked..
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well, nothing from Sericol. I guess they are too big to care. 'pretty disappointing.
It makes me think, even if they do come with a good product as it has been hinted, would you really want to do business with them? I had several members here contact me and said they talked to their reps to try to have them sort it out, but nothing so far.
shame . . .
pierre
well, I guess when you are a big company everything takes a little longer. Our sales rep cam back to us with a very generous offer!
It is very much appreciated and I hope this little rant here benefits both the members and the manufacturer in the long run.
Thank you again to everybody reaching out and Sericol for making it right.
pierre
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YAY! Make sure you try the flos if you haven'nt already
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alan, i mentioned that to you that day we talked..
Yeah, I remember that now.
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Glad they got you all setup Pierre!
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I asked a Sericol distributor a few years ago about why they didn't care more about marketing their discharge (it wasn't even listed on their website for the longest time) and he basically said that they're so huge that even if they captured every single drop of discharge ink sales in the US, it still wouldn't be but a fraction of one percent of their total sales.
It's kinda sad... Every once in a while I get fed up with being ignored, and I'll try something new, but I'm always sorry I did. Texcharge is so consistent from batch to batch and so easy to use compared to everything else. It's never given me a moment of unexpected grief in the years I've been using it, probably since 94 or so.
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As I mentioned before Fuji Films is a huge Asian conglomerate. They basically developed the Texcharge products on a whim. It's hard for many of us to wrap our minds around how they do business but the Texcharge products have little or no impact on their bottom line. It's a little like "Here it is, it works, buy it, or don't. Either way it really isn't going to matter to us"
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We have used Sericol for their florescent inks only for some time. I have seen the new CCI florescent inks though and I am pretty sure we will make the change as soon as they can be bought - way easier to buy and better relationship overall. I think they have them figured out and that is saying something as prior to this Sericol was the only florescent DC was the only one that really did it right.
Once available you do owe it to yourself to check them out what I saw was quite impressive.
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Their distributer in Singapore was about to charge us a fortune for their products and even more for the shipping.
Have you try them recently?
I started to use sericol ink again for nylon, because the local inks were giving me problems.
Last week I called my local shop, and was surprised price dropped almost 40% from prices that were listed several years ago.
I bought more than enough just incase they gave me the wrong price. ;D
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Once available you do owe it to yourself to check them out what I saw was quite impressive.
I totally agree. Nice stuff