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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: ZooCity on March 04, 2013, 02:37:28 PM
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I just went on source one to price check a gal of Epic Super Dallas Green.....$225/gal ?!
Parmele still has it at around a hundo a gallon but dang homie, this is not good. I know Nazdar is probably "first to know" with many mfg so they are probably just ahead of schedule on a big ass price jump I presume? It's now looking more cost effective to change part of our pricing approach.
Previously: You could select a "super opaque" from the WFX color card and we would print it PFP as a one color print with a $0.25 per pc Flash charge (covers the flash, 2nd revolution and ink). We'll mix an in-house super-opaque of a Pantone that will PFP for an additional $15. note: bigger orders using this option, we would still run a UB at no charge as it was more cost effective but you get the idea here, it was helpful to some on short runs looking to avoid a second color and no big hassle for us with the right ink Also note: Can possibly go back to this with one of the new HSAs if pricing is better than plastisol.
New idea: All prints on darks require a UB screen. We'll use DC UB as standard and top hit with house mixed WB or Epic. House mixing the Epic appears way cheaper now v. bucket price on the spots. Takes about a 15min max to hit a pantone and we could simply mix our own stock spots.
Crazy times. This is the first time (in biz since 2006) I've ever had to consider our pricing structure due to ink costs. I wonder if it's just plastisol going through the damn roof or if it's the pigments or.....? What's your ink plan for this year?
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You can make that green in discharge for around $30 p/gallon
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Xenon Dallas Green is $44 per gallon
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try printing that discharge on poly ;)
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the formula to make "70501 Super Dallas Green" is in the wilflex software - you can make your own for less.
i found it under the MX and PC system
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try printing that discharge on poly ;)
Exactly. HSA may be a solution though, have to see how it susses (and prices) out though.
And yep, going to do it ourselves I guess. Base ink is not that bad by the 5gal and they have an opaque base now so that's that. I guess the cool part is we can mix/name our own colors. I always thought "rebel flesh" had some dubious marketing qualities.
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To me, rebel red makes a better rebel flesh ;)
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Sonny, are you guys able to provide documentation that the ink is phthalate-free yet?
Some quick background on how I've done this:
Used to use QCM exclusively but I noticed the white/spots were extremely inconsistent but the mixing bases were pretty good so I never offered "standard" spots and mixed for each order or made my own house colors to use in gallon batches. Then QCM took a big dive and the mixing bases started being off (nasty migration/crock issue with red in our case). So I switched over to all WFX for plastisol and it's been dead nuts on the money, every bucket. That let me offer a set of standards and then charge for pantones for the first time. At $225/gal, there goes that. Shame as, we just got a bunch of the good, older, actually printed swatch books to distribute to our main accounts from our rep.
So my big question Sonny, if you guys are phthatlate-free, how are you guys able to provide consistency at those prices if WFX needs 5x as much to do it? Also, do you guys have a disto out West?
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I haven't notice the prices going up that much, of course I haven't bought much ink either. ;)
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I like wilfex also. I just can't keep buying it at the prices my distributor wants for it. Not just for white. Quick was around $260 a 5 the first time I got it. Then $330 for a 5. Last time it was $360 or something crazy. (I will have to check that) I am looking at Rutland as a option. I know frog had a website posted once that had amazing prices. My local guy was more than $50 more per 5 gallon on SF White LB. I am a small shop and will not lie and tell them I am going to buy a ton of ink just to get better pricing. Karma is a b!tch.
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Jon - Dynamic Supply, they're in Rancho Cucamonga. (yes, that's a real place non-westerners) Should be
one day to you?
Quick is nice but not worth the extra price over Rutlands Streetfighter series.
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I have been having problems with streetfighter recently. I am not sure if it's the temps, but it sticks really bad and is hard to get smooth.
I went back to xenon and my prints feel like butter again. The other great ink I've used is One Stroke EJ special white auto. Freaking awesome ink, but I think it's around $450 a 5.
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Jon - Dynamic Supply, they're in Rancho Cucamonga. (yes, that's a real place non-westerners) Should be
one day to you?
Quick is nice but not worth the extra price over Rutlands Streetfighter series.
Thanks for the heads up. I have used the Street fighter white low bleed and had no issues here. I didn't notice much of a difference on press compared to Quick. The only thing that stood out was a little bit of shine. I hate shine. But with a DCUB I don't think that will ever be a issue. $360 or $160 a 5. Call me cheap but I think I just made my choice.
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Hey Mk - which Xenon white is that -- we got some last year - buttery yes, opaque no. have they reformulated?
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Call them I bet that's for 5 gallon not 1 gallon.
Shane
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Just a couple pennies, but aside from super small text etc., I have never liked P/F/P with maxopaque type colors.
In fact, that's all that Union recommended them for.
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That may (I hope) have been a typo. I have three suppliers for WFX: GSG, PSP, Nazdar. GSG doesn't have Dallas Green on the site so I used super spring green to compare. Averages out to 116.53/gal.
Standard Epic is lower than the Super Opaque, around 70-80/gal.
I do love and will stick with Epic Quick as it just ain't worth the ag once you get a good white dialed in to switch it. Also using far, far less of all the plastisols nowadays.
I'm starting to look at vinyl-free sometime this year if some of these new ink systems test out and are affordable. That's great for marketing and getting certain clientele (for my niche) on it's own but I wonder if it's pigments of the raw vinyl material in the plastisol driving the prices?
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We have used Quick and Extreme Whites for 12+ years. Actually toured the Wilflex plant back in 1998. You could see why they are so consistent in their formulas every step of the way. The new -PH Free Quick- is really a dream compared to years past.
When someone gets into pricing- I always think to myself- how many prints can I get out of a $100 gallon? Plennnty!
It's pretty easy to multiply $$ on any plasti although it definitely has been on the rise.
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We have used Quick and Extreme Whites for 12+ years. Actually toured the Wilflex plant back in 1998. You could see why they are so consistent in their formulas every step of the way. The new -PH Free Quick- is really a dream compared to years past.
When someone gets into pricing- I always think to myself- how many prints can I get out of a $100 gallon? Plennnty!
It's pretty easy to multiply $$ on any plasti although it definitely has been on the rise.
The same amount of prints I can get out of a $50 gallon maybe ;)
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Been in the business for 24 years and understand I get what I pay for.
Wilflex Lifer~
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Been in the business for 24 years and understand I get what I pay for.
Wilflex Lifer~
Right there with you Gary. There is not a white out there that can touch it. I have tried them all. There is a reason why its expensive, because it works.
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regular xenon white. it's opaque here. I also will tend to run xenon as an ub and a top white like streetfighter.
I've been through Quick and White Buffalo, I have to say neither of them come close to EJ special white(auto). That EJ is probably the best white out there for cotton and blends.
I use Wilflex for my colors, they do make very good inks.
That does sound like a price for 5 gallons. Or it's for the PC's. Tech Support SPS has Super Light Gold for $118 a gallon.
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I just went on source one to price check a gal of Epic Super Dallas Green.....$225/gal ?!
Parmele still has it at around a hundo a gallon but dang homie, this is not good. I know Nazdar is probably "first to know" with many mfg so they are probably just ahead of schedule on a big ass price jump I presume? It's now looking more cost effective to change part of our pricing approach.
Crazy times. This is the first time (in biz since 2006) I've ever had to consider our pricing structure due to ink costs. I wonder if it's just plastisol going through the damn roof or if it's the pigments or.....? What's your ink plan for this year?
Chris: Thanks for the heads-up on this suspiciously high price for a gallon of Wilflex Epic Super Dallas Green. I checked against all of the other Epic Super Colors and this pricing for the Dallas green looks like a typo. I've notified our Product Manager and Purchasing Department with a request that they investigate and to make corrections as required.
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Hello all.
Super Dallas Green was discontinued as a STANDARD product along with another 28 or so colors during the conversion from Genesis to Epic a couple years ago. What this means is that the product is not produced in bulk by the manufacturer and is a special make-to-order. Thus, the pricing is extremely high. Wilflex reduced their color palette of standard inks to be more in line with competitive offerings.
Bottom line - This should not be on our eCommerce page - along with some other items that need to be cleaned up. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!
As a side note - the standard version of 70500 Epic Dallas Green is $73.24 for one gallon.
Thanks again!
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Zoo
Techsupport Sps
wilflex Epic Super Spring Green
121.80 per gallon
alan
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Zoo
Techsupport Sps
wilflex Epic Super Spring Green
121.80 per gallon
alan
Yeah I got it. See above post. I used super spring green to compare and it was averaging about $116 from either of my three WFX suppliers out here. Way better than $225 but still purdy steep.
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Zoo
Techsupport Sps
wilflex Epic Super Spring Green
121.80 per gallon
alan
Alan: As a point of reference the original inquiry from Chris aka Zoo City was related to the price for Epic Super Dallas Green, not Epic Super Spring Green. As a matter of interest what price does Tech Support SPS offer for a One-Gallon UM of Wilflex Super Dallas Green?
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Peter
Thank you for catching my mistake on the color.
our price on 1 gallon of Epic Super Dallas Green is 125.00
Zoo give me a ring
Alan
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Super Opaques: ≈$116/gal
Out of Production Super Opaques: ≈$225 gal (unless someone has back stock presumably)
Just to clarify all that.
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Super Opaques: ≈$116/gal
Out of Production Super Opaques: ≈$225 gal (unless someone has back stock presumably)
Just to clarify all that.
Just understand that Wilflex still has many STANDARD Super Opaques. Super Dallas, Super Turquoise, Super Primrose. Super Flou Magenta were the ones that bit the dust and are now NON-STANDARD. Most of the deletions were in standard shades. Make certain you have a new color card.
Purchasing a non-standard from Wilflex is very expensive. However, bear in mind - any Wilflex distributor can mix colors in house if they choose too and sell as that item number. It does open up them for liability with the Epic non-phthalate.
Just be certain you are getting what you expect.
Rob
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We have been using the Miami Ink for awhile for our standard colors and very happy with it. But a few weeks ago we finally entered the pricing into our Wilflex PC mixing system and found we could mix a gallon of just about any color using the 15000 base for around $60, +/- depending on the color.
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regular xenon white. it's opaque here. I also will tend to run xenon as an ub and a top white like streetfighter.
I've been through Quick and White Buffalo, I have to say neither of them come close to EJ special white(auto). That EJ is probably the best white out there for cotton and blends.
I use Wilflex for my colors, they do make very good inks.
That does sound like a price for 5 gallons. Or it's for the PC's. Tech Support SPS has Super Light Gold for $118 a gallon.
i'll give it another shot then, cause it was the creamest white ever, and cleared the screen like a dream
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We have been using the Miami Ink for awhile for our standard colors and very happy with it. But a few weeks ago we finally entered the pricing into our Wilflex PC mixing system and found we could mix a gallon of just about any color using the 15000 base for around $60, +/- depending on the color.
Yeah, this looks like the only way to fly here. PC here as well but we typically mix at max pigment load so probably a little higher per gal.
Rob and others- I posted previous that we were hoping to standardize our plastisol color set this year, including allowing clientele to select super opaques for a print-flash-print scenario, hence my disappointment in that pricing. The whole idea, to me at least, with spot colors is the mfg can mix big lots of each at a time for a passed along savings (and consistency) on the color to the printer. Suppliers can purchase larger qty of color card inks knowing they will ultimately move. It should create a situation where spots are the best deal, but if it's cheaper for us to mix our own then we'll mix our own. With the Epic opaque base now being offered we can mix super opaques if we want as well but I may just require a UB on all orders unless requested specially rather than bother with this.
On the sunny side, we can choose what pantones we want for our standard colors, have full control of the mix and just make our own color cards.
The IMS software is so powerful and we aren't even using it in our currently disorganized ink area. Our plastisol mixes are abt 15min. in this less than ideal setup so I'm sure they'll drop to 5 or 10 when we get our act together and hook it all up to our scale.
Also just wanted to also make it clear I'm a very happy Wilflex camper here and I don't cheap out on ink. But WFX may as well just cancel the spot colors at these prices because most are going to mix their own.