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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Socalfmf on March 22, 2013, 10:53:49 AM
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So we went to ISS AC and I once again got an earful about the silicone ink. since we print a lot of poly and under armour type of materials I said great lets give it a shot...got a sample from Rob Coleman and did our testing...Today we ran 500 poly shorts from Augusta...HOLY CRAP....one hit white on Navy. looks great soft touch and you can stretch it til it rips ( I did that)
while this ink is a little bit more expensive, it also has zero dye migration since it cures at 280. and only 1 screen and no flash...
this is great and look forward to working with this ink more and more.
sam
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I'd love to get into this stuff for the spandex/cotton blends, if nothing else. No pigments yet though, right?
Do you mind sharing a few details on print parameters? Mesh count, stencil, double/single stroke, etc?
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Nice, we just got our kit this week and can't wait to try it.
What mesh were you running?
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Sure..
we used a 156 mesh coated 2/2 soft squeegee, print stroke very slow 1 hit white. I will go take a video...
sam
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MyqTj9sxQDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee12/socalfmf/shorts.jpg)
final image with silicone ink...so slick!!!this is one hit white..
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Yep, I got mine too but never got a chance to try it.
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how's the body? thick and pasty or thinnish?
Steve
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smooth and feels like discharge or waterbased
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Are you guys members of a secret society? I have been trying to get my hands on some silicone ink for two months now and can't seem to get anyone to help me. A couple of e-mails to Nazdar, talking to my distributor, etc.
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I want some. Are they just selling it as a sample kit? Who do I need to talk to at Nazdar to procure me some of this stuff? I'm assuming it's not on the website.
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Lets hear about pricing!
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You guys should have been in Atlantic City!
Kidding, we were with Pierre when he was talking to Rob and Peter, and we scored a quart each :) (At least I got the quart)
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this is in pre release stage. White and black should be readily available, don't know about colors. We are testing it for Nazdar so we have few colors here, but I don't know if they have been officially released.
My understanding is that you can purchase it already even though it has not been launched. It does print a little different from plastisol and waterbased inks so they want to make sure it is used correctly. It is very easy to print with, I think it's the best clearing ink I've seen and it deposits enough in just one stroke! But even under those circumstances, some knucklehead might not pay attention and start badmouthing the product. I was told they want to make sure the product is used properly so it does not get an unwarranted bad reputation.
Anybody wanting to try it should probably talk to their Nazdar rep. If that does not get you anywhere, send me a PM and I'll pass your info to the right ppl (which means exactly that, getting your request to somebody. I have no pull to make anything happen, but will gladly send the request along).
pierre
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I am very excited for this ink to finally come around. It has been over two years since we first tested it. We had to drop it because our client could not wait this long. However, once this stuff is available I will be all over it!
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Are you guys members of a secret society? I have been trying to get my hands on some silicone ink for two months now and can't seem to get anyone to help me. A couple of e-mails to Nazdar, talking to my distributor, etc.
The ink is available for sampling and as others have said is in pre-release. Either drop me an emial (my complete contcat info is in my profile) or connect with Rob Coleman at rcoleman@nazdar.com and either one of us will get you hooked up.
I am not sure who you previously contacted at Nazdar but I dont belive that Graphic Solutions Group (GSG) the Nazdar Distributor in Texas is going to carry the ImageStar/DOW Corning range of Silicon Ready For Use colors or the Pigment Concentrate and Mixing Base matching system.
after you test and qualify this product it's likley that you may need to order from your nearest Nazdar SourceOne location.
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How does this compare to the Union HSA ink? We've been printing with that for a while and it sounds real similar to what you guys are talking about here. We pretty much treat it like a waterbase ink( it dries in the screen) so at times it's a pita for us on hot summer days with no humidity. We have had really great results with it though for certain applications and I believe it's a rubberized type ink. I'm sure someone can share some info but you might want to give the hsa(high solids acrylic) a try.
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How does this compare to the Union HSA ink? We've been printing with that for a while and it sounds real similar to what you guys are talking about here. We pretty much treat it like a waterbase ink( it dries in the screen) so at times it's a pita for us on hot summer days with no humidity. We have had really great results with it though for certain applications and I believe it's a rubberized type ink. I'm sure someone can share some info but you might want to give the hsa(high solids acrylic) a try.
Danny: The ImageStar/ DOW silicone ink is a totally different animal to any of the High Solids Acrylic Water base ink Systems. Silicone inks are a catalyzed system with a low cure tem, excellent screen stability, adhesion, bleed resistance, and stretch ability especially designed for printing on performance wear fabrics. If you're interested in further information ahead of the official launch, please feel free to reach out to Rob Coleman or me and we'll get you taken care of.
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How does this compare to the Union HSA ink? We've been printing with that for a while and it sounds real similar to what you guys are talking about here. We pretty much treat it like a waterbase ink( it dries in the screen) so at times it's a pita for us on hot summer days with no humidity. We have had really great results with it though for certain applications and I believe it's a rubberized type ink. I'm sure someone can share some info but you might want to give the hsa(high solids acrylic) a try.
not even close, not even in the same ballpark! We treat the Silicone ink as regular plastisol when printing and do not see it drying in the screen. It does use a catalyst, so it has to be reclaimed/washed right away.
It sounds familiar, but it really isn't. Get a sample and try it out.
pierre
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Are you guys members of a secret society? I have been trying to get my hands on some silicone ink for two months now and can't seem to get anyone to help me. A couple of e-mails to Nazdar, talking to my distributor, etc.
It was a secret society that ganged up on me in Atlantic City!! :) hehe! It was GREAT spending time with Pierre and the rest!!
Serious - we are in the process of commercializing the RFU color palette. Guess what ... It matches up the new Wilflex Top Score athletic colors ... so now you have the same basic color palette available from SourceOne in two different chemistries! Both are designed for Performance Wear and Poly printing.
The Silicone is awesome!
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Thanks Peter.
GUYS (gals) - Anyone that is interested, please contact me directly at my contact information in my sig!
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([url]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee12/socalfmf/shorts.jpg[/url])
final image with silicone ink...so slick!!!this is one hit white..
Sorry for the multiple posts -- but I had to give a shout to Sam --- sweet print! Thanks for posting the video as well!
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would this work for screened transfers as well? i'm thinking about how great this would be to print on polyester foam hats
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would this work for screened transfers as well? i'm thinking about how great this would be to print on polyester foam hats
I cannot imagine that it would. You have to add a catalyst to make the ink crosslink and adhere.
Nothing will stick to it once it is cured. Even reheating. You can put a transfer press down on a cured film and it will not stick to it.
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I'm ordering shirts on Monday and hopefully printing some next week on Manual machine. I will post the results after that.
I have seen the shirts Pierre did, you can not compare this to anything else. Really nice, smooth, thin print on polyester shirts, and at the same time elastic and opaque.
SWEET
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Whats the length of time it has to be at 280?
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Blue..it is 1 minute in heat at 280...
results = awesomeness
sam
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Whats the length of time it has to be at 280?
it cures at 275 or so and we were told not to pass 300. Just make sure it is not wet when it exits the dryer. From what I've been told and have seen, it will completely harden on its own (because of the catalyst). Theoretically, you could never run it through the dryer and it should still work!
pierre
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SourceOne is sending a sample my way next week. :)
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SourceOne is sending a sample my way next week. :)
Welcome to the "Club"! ????
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I'll be jumping on this as well. (Rob, I'll be contacting you)
I almost feel obligated, as I was talking to the Dow folks two or so years back about this stuff. They then put the brakes on it, as we heard, to fix some issues.
At the time though, it did appear that I may have had to look into taking out a second mortgage. They were talking $250 a gallon range. Is this still the case? (Of course, it could still be money well spent, and even passed along)
And is this going to be like Wilflex and cut out the small user with only gallons and larger?
*I just went back to my email from 2010, and it was mentioned that this was expected to be 10X the cost of plastisol.
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Frog - yes contact me directly. The Standard Color line will be available in Quarts and gallons.
Catalyst is in 2 lb and 8 lb containers. So at 3-5% loading - enough to catalyze ~4-6 gals. We could consider a smaller catalyst size of the market needs it.
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Sounds like great stuff.
I don't know if the 2lb minimum would matter too much as long as it didn't expire in a short period of time, not mixed of course. Is there a shelf life established on the separate components?
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Seems no one wants to mention pricing.
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Seems no one wants to mention pricing.
$130-$180 per gallon is what I heard . . .
pierre
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Seems no one wants to mention pricing.
No not at all. Just don't want to be premature. We are still determining. The most effective way to produce and this determine our cost on the RFU colors - certainly do not want to set expectations that aren't met!
With that being stated, Pierre is probably spot on for gallon pricing. You can add another 30 bucks per gallon for catalyst addition to that gallon for a finished cost.
Really not that much of a difference among colors as the BASE and CATALYST are the expensive components - unlike in a plastisol or waterbase where pigments are the much more expensive components.
Obviously custom (non-standard) will be higher. Base and pigments will be available for those that want to blend in house. Still working on formulas.
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Sounds like great stuff.
I don't know if the 2lb minimum would matter too much as long as it didn't expire in a short period of time, not mixed of course. Is there a shelf life established on the separate components?
12 months is the recommendation.
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with 12 months shelf life for catalyst, a smaller package might be needed for a small manual printers.
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Yep, even smaller auto shops may not go through six gallons in a year. I'd be willing to bet we wouldn't go through a whole gallon the first year, although from the looks of what you can do with it, may be a lot more orders for that type of stuff once people get their hands on the finished product.
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Pricing sounds decent for what it is able to do, worth it to me.
I was just worried that if Andy's mention of ten times plastisol that would make it to expensive for most to be viable.
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I remember calling D-C years ago about this and it's good to see it's finally going to be a reality.
Pricing sounds a-ok to me. That's close enough to be competitive with WFX Epic Performance which is what our polys get now. And there ain't no one hits going on around here with Perf White. I know there is waste involved though but...
...I think the novelty of this print method can justify a little extra in the pricing, it does sound superior on all fronts. How's it wash?
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I agree that a premium price for premium performance is certainly fair.
Fortunately, the premium does does not seem that it will be as great as I was lead to believe from the Dow Corning rep back in 2010.
and no, I did not pick that price point randomly
--- On Thu, 4/8/10, specialty.chemicals@dowcorning.com <specialty.chemicals@dowcorning.com> wrote:
From: specialty.chemicals@dowcorning.com <specialty.chemicals@dowcorning.com>
Subject: RE: Textiles Screen Printing Inks - United States
To: frog94596@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 11:57 AM
Andy,
The silicone inks are a very new product for Dow Corning and are currently going through a reformulation to extend the pot life. We have temporarily suspended sampling so that any efforts you put forth are not unrepresentative of the final formulation. I have captured your contact information and will respond again in early May when we are hoping to have the formulation work finalized. We appreciate your interest and look forward to working with you in the very new future as we are very excited about the possibilities these inks will bring to the printing industry. We are currently working with potential distributors for the inks. The inks will sell for somewhere around 10X of what you are paying for plastisols.
In the meantime I will be more than happy to assist you with what information I currently have but would like some information about your company and application.
1. Are you a printer and if so how do you currently print i.e. screen, flexo etc.
2. Are you an ink formulator?
3. Are you a retailer or contract printer?
4. What markets are you involved in?
5. On average how many prints are you doing monthly?
Regards,
Bob
R. T. Nelson
Prospecting Specialist,
Life Sciences and Advanced Interface Markets
North American Business Center,
Dow Corning Corporation
Mail Stop CO2100
Ph. (989) 496-7790
r.t.nelson@dowcorning.com
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phhhh.. it probably is 10x the cost of plastisols in early 2010! Cost on quality plasti has gone through the damn roof imo.
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WOW, WOW, WOW...........
Printed about 20 poly shirts with this ink. WOW
155 mesh about 30 N/cm, two swipes with medium pressure (no flash) and done. Manual machine.
Like the feel of 155 better than 110. I did the left chest with 110 mesh and full back with 155.
Cured them @ 270-280 degrees. I baked one by mistake @340 and I will see what will happen to id after a day or two.
Love it!!!!
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More pics
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More pics
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On black tee
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Looks awesome Dennis. Were you staying up late printing, or just the posting about it part? ;)
How was it with the porthole mesh? Similar handling to plastisol, or was it easier/harder to deal with the holes?
Can't wait to toss some of that stuff in a screen.
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I ended up printing until 11 PM. I had to finish one order and while I had everything going (Dryer) I decided to do a test print.
This prints really easy, nothing like plastisol. Or maybe like plastisol with a bunch of reducer. No issues with the holes whatsoever.
I mixed about 160 grams of ink with 3% of reducer and I had just a bit to throw away after I was done with 16 full backs and 20 left chests.
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What is the pot life on that ink once mixed?
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6 hours on white. I believe that Pierre said 6 hours, and about 1.5 hours on black
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Looks awesome Dennis. Were you staying up late printing, or just the posting about it part? ;)
How was it with the porthole mesh? Similar handling to plastisol, or was it easier/harder to deal with the holes?
Can't wait to toss some of that stuff in a screen.
ScreenFoo, Pretty sure those are just plain old t-shirts... I think the print was replicating the port hole mesh look...... ;D
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A4's--yep. Didn't notice the top wasn't the same. ;D
I'll dig up some nasty poly when I get some o that ink.
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Looks awesome Dennis. Were you staying up late printing, or just the posting about it part? ;)
How was it with the porthole mesh? Similar handling to plastisol, or was it easier/harder to deal with the holes?
Can't wait to toss some of that stuff in a screen.
ScreenFoo, Pretty sure those are just plain old t-shirts... I think the print was replicating the port hole mesh look...... ;D
mesh requires a P/F/P to come out smooth. 'did not care for the look with just one hit . . . Nice and smooth with two.
pierre
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WOW, WOW, WOW...........
Printed about 20 poly shirts with this ink. WOW
155 mesh about 30 N/cm, two swipes with medium pressure (no flash) and done. Manual machine.
Like the feel of 155 better than 110. I did the left chest with 110 mesh and full back with 155.
Cured them @ 270-280 degrees. I baked one by mistake @340 and I will see what will happen to id after a day or two.
Love it!!!!
Awesome! Thanks for posting. As we are getting closer to full commercialization of the RFU colors ....... if anyone would care to be cited in a testimonial, I would love to hear from you! Please email me directly at rcoleman@nazdar.com.
Thanks all!
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WOW, WOW, WOW...........
Printed about 20 poly shirts with this ink. WOW
155 mesh about 30 N/cm, two swipes with medium pressure (no flash) and done. Manual machine.
Like the feel of 155 better than 110. I did the left chest with 110 mesh and full back with 155.
Cured them @ 270-280 degrees. I baked one by mistake @340 and I will see what will happen to id after a day or two.
Love it!!!!
Awesome! Thanks for posting. As we are getting closer to full commercialization of the RFU colors ....... if anyone would care to be cited in a testimonial, I would love to hear from you! Please email me directly at rcoleman@nazdar.com.
Thanks all!
Thank you for the sample!!!
I'll write something up and email you. (Please proof read before publishing) :)
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I was able to do about 4 test prints on Thursday before I got pulled away. I like the ink a lot. I just printed a few small left chests on 100% poly and although it doesn't seem like I got the opacity Dennis managed to get without flashing, I was still impressed. It was a one hit white but it was borderline and not a knockout white like Dennis's pics look. I didn't turn the dryer down from normal plastisol and ran the poly shirt through and it did bleed but it was a very thin layer of ink and getting up to 330+ inside the chamber. I can't wait to try a full sized image on the auto with this ink, I think it could be a game changer and I can tell you that I am ready for one.
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just got our first Gallon in and we did some samples for a customer who is doing a fundraiser...I will post pics when I get them off the camera...
sam
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Just got my package.
Hoping for a softball team order and planning on pointing them towards a dark poly shirt, while up to now have been doing the opposite!
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Thanks Sam looking forward to more pics.
Alan- you really want to keep the dryer temp down on the 280 range. 300 seems to be a go/no go point for many fabrics regarding due sublimation points.
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Thanks Sam looking forward to more pics.
Alan- you really want to keep the dryer temp down on the 280 range. 300 seems to be a go/no go point for many fabrics regarding due sublimation points.
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Will do when we run it for a production job but I couldn't mess with the dryer settings because the guys were in the middle of a run on the auto so I couldn't contain myself any longer and had a window of opportunity to test it out. I was in no way trying to test it unfairly or anything I just wanted to see how it printed mainly and not directly test it's bleed resistance. I will test the ink with the donut probe and wash tests when I get a chance to really see what it will do. The conditions I submitted the ink to were as extreme as it gets, red 100% poly under armor type material and plastisol setting on the dryer, 330 at 20 seconds inside the 12' heat chamber. It still did better than any cotton white plastisol ink I've tested.
I appreciate the timely manner I got the sample, and I look forward to testing it out on a full size print on Monday or Tuesday.
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After looking at the sample silicone ink on my desk for over a month finally had time to use it do a job. The results were IMO amazing. We did 30 green mesh Badger reversibles, white imprint of a font aprox 10"x10", 150 mesh on the manual, one firm flood and two light push strokes with the squeegee. Printed easy, ended up with a nice smooth opaque print that filled a the nooks and crannys in the fabric with little effort. Unfortunately they shipped out before I could get some pictures. While the screen was up I also printed on some other samples we had lying around. One of which was my arch enemy, a red stretchy Badger shirt. Even their logo on the sleeve was pink from dye migration but the silicone held up with no problems coming out of the dryer at 305. I did a second one, over flashed it and ran it through the dryer coming out at 340 and again no problems. Both have been washed several times and have no visible problems.
I personally see this stuff as a total winner printing on pia fabrics. Looking forward to the colored inks coming out soon.
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With this being a catalized product, what are you doing about unused ink? Are you just chalking it up to waste?
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With this being a catalized product, what are you doing about unused ink? Are you just chalking it up to waste?
yup! expensive waste it is too. $130- $190 per gallon, it adds up. We are charging $0.50 extra per print with 48 pc min to cover the ink cost. At the end of the day, there is no other product like it so ppl pay. We have three new customers as a consequence of being able to do this.
pierre
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Same as Pierre. I treat it no diffrent then our discharge and mix carefully.
We had three regular customers stop by yesterday and noticed the samples lying on the reception desk and were floored by the print. Not only the hand but how white it was especially on the red Badger. All wanted it for their next jobs all willing to pay extra for it.
We have a soccer club we do a lot of work for all poly inks, three color. They saw it this morning and want all their stuff done with it, again willing to pay extra for it. Now we have to wait for the color pallet and actual firm pricing so we can quote it.
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Yep. Unfortunately with my niche usually being individual teams, or similar small orders, the upcharge is even higher because I use an even higher proportion of total mix to piece.
It is what it is.
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okay...I want to try. Do I order the sample at sourceoneonline?
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Track down Rob Coleman. He is a member here.
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Thanks, Frog.
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Thanks, Frog.
The best way to move forward is to send an email with your full contact info to Rob Coleman at rcoleman@nazdar.com Rob's really good at getting back to people and he wil get you taken care of.
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Can I use the silicone ink as an underbase and print regular plastisol over it? Will the cure temps be too far off?
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Can I use the silicone ink as an underbase and print regular plastisol over it? Will the cure temps be too far off?
that will not work. nothing sticks to the silicone, plastisol will just peel right off. . .
pierre
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I am glad to know that now... Can you pfp silicon on top of itself or is it strictly 1 hit or wow?
Thanks,
matt
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Yes, you can print / flash / print with silicone. Or use cap film for a thicker deposit.
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i tried to print some manually today and I was disappointed in the results. I am sure i could have gotten better results on the auto, but it was el-occupado at the time.
I ended up PFP with smart white because i didn't have time to pfp the silicone ink.
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i tried to print some manually today and I was disappointed in the results. I am sure i could have gotten better results on the auto, but it was el-occupado at the time.
I ended up PFP with smart white because i didn't have time to pfp the silicone ink.
Brad: One important thing about the silicone inks is that the viscosity and rheology is different (thinner) than plastisol. It’s a little bit too easy to drive the ink down into the garment and end up with a dull looking print If you’re not careful. I’d suggest that you look at the test prints that you made to see if you had excessive penetration into the fabric.
The method that I’ve seen yield the best results is to print a light first layer being careful to lay the ink on top of the fabric to seal it, then flash and come back with a second full coverage hit. I hope that you get another chance to try the silicone inks sometime because they do produce exceptional results on some of the otherwise PITA to screen-print Performance-Wear fabrics
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can you order the silicone yet?
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peter, I think my problem was I am used to printing plastisol on a manual. It was hard to dial back the pressure to get a great ink deposit. I was sure I could nail it on the auto, it just takes more finesse on the manual.
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just tried this stuff tonight with a couple different inhouse designs on cotton, 50/50, and 100% poly. so far, first tries were on the manual, came no where near to what everyone had said it could do, in a single stroke. Buzzed Sam and he gave me a few pointers. Yanked the screen, which was a 156 on a newman with 40 newtons. Put on the auto, dropped my central off contact all the way down, lowered my pressure to 30psi, slow slooooooow stroke , actually 2 strokes but didn't after several tries get a true, "one hit" print. Tried a pfp and got a full vibrant white print. Cool thing was the build up was 80% less than a plastisol poly white and low cure temp yeilded a very soft finished print. Tried another design on a 110, same thing only alot more opaque. I might also mention that I used a single duro 70 squeegee blade 15 degree angle. I am happy with the final print's feel and look, but I guess we will have to play around to get the 1 hit wonder. Then again I also wonder if people have a different opinion on what is an acceptable 1 hit, or final look to their white. For us, we like a 100% full opacity white, seeing nothing of the substrate through the ink. It's cool stuff, I want to perfect it and put it in the mix. There has got to be a better clean up too. Beenie doo which works amazing on plastisol made a mess with this stuff as well as the CCI 107 inkwash that we use for final screen cleaning. I ended up using spray way screen opener to get that stuff out, then the other cleaners. I'm sure there is a chem just for this stuff, I got that stuff all over me lol. Any tips on perfecting the 1 hit wonder of this would be awesome. But even for now, it looks like a poly winner seeing how it does not bleed and cures at such a low temp.
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for anybody chasing the one hit, we are having good luck with it, but . . . EVERYTHING has to be right on, any small deviation from perfection and it is a PFP ink.
We are on metal platens (no rubber top) which also might make a difference. Every time we run it and we need a one stroke setup, I have to go out to the press and set it up. The press op is really very, very good, but this is beyond her reach (well, everything is beyond her reach now as she was let go, but that's another story).
we use a 55/95/55 squeegee and 110 mesh with 50% EOM (yes, that is extremely thick and it migh explain why we can do it with just one hit). Lay the squeegee down very far, at least 35 degrees, possibly pretty close to 45. Flood normal from what I can remember, stroke super slow (as slow as the press will let us). Then I back off the pressure and adjust the off contact until it's right on. I think gap is ever so slightly more than on the regular print, but very little if any. I usually adjust the stroke to go significantly past the print area to make sure everything clears before the shirts drop away from the screen. There can easily be 6" of extra travel.
The resulting print is NOT 100% white! It is brighter and cleaner than a regular plastisol print, but it is not paper white. It is at an acceptable level though. Most customers will not be comparing the print to a sheet of paper and saying this is not the same. I would say it is 95% there. The truth is, PFP produces a spectacular white, but how many athletic teams are looking for a spectacular white print?
As far as cleanup, it is a little bit of a struggle. It is very important to wash the screens as soon as possible! We are still working out the details and the screen guy says he often has to use screen opener, but I just washed a screen after use and it cleared quickly and easily (gold ink).
Wet on wet is not an option with these inks (at least as they are formulated now). If we don't flash between the colors, the second screen drives the first color into the garment and it becomes dull. Dark colors don't really need flashing though so a black and white print can be done wet on wet.
pierre
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Pierre sumed it up best.
We ran black leotards last week with the white silicone on the manual. 125 mesh with a thick stencil. I could get the one hit white but had to retrain myself not to push the squeegee to hard. It is almost instinct with the white to try and and give a firm stroke. The ink moves easy through the screen and in a way self lubercating. I found by using a hard flood and a real light push stroke I could get the one hit white.
We also ran the same logo on a bunch of dark grey Under Armor jackets on the auto. Squeegee as much angle as possiable, a light print stroke and lots of off contact we could get the one hit white.
As soon as we are done with the screen I scrape the ink out and powere wash the mesh to get the silicone out. So far we have not lost a screen.
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All: I owe the board a status update on the Silicone project. Lots have happened in the last two months. I am sending an internal update to the Nazdar SourceOne team this week, and will then give an update here. Stay tuned. Good things happening....just slower than anticipated! ...Rob
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speaking...in...generalities....and....vagueness....
my impression of Rob's last post. Sorry I had to. I am with pierre. we've had good luck with it, but everything needs to be perfect. it has better coverage than a straight poly ink on a one hit white.
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speaking...in...generalities....and....vagueness....
my impression of Rob's last post. Sorry I had to. I am with pierre. we've had good luck with it, but everything needs to be perfect. it has better coverage than a straight poly ink on a one hit white.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :)
I do realize that this was vague, and I thought twice (well at least 1.5 times) before posting. I am way behind in updating and felt I should at least throw this out there. Plus it puts me on a communication deadline for all to see!
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"As far as cleanup, it is a little bit of a struggle. It is very important to wash the screens as soon as possible! We are still working out the details and the screen guy says he often has to use screen opener, but I just washed a screen after use and it cleared quickly and easily (gold ink)."
Try using PlastiSolv, makes cleanup of the silicone a no-brainer, mineral spirits are great too but those are getting expensive nowadays. if you can't get to it for a while cover it up so it is airtight with a peice of plastic wrap, both sides of the screen, that will buy you some time, but definitely don't want to hang em til tomorrow...
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I ran out of my typical screen wash and ran to the store and picked up a bottle of GooGone spray Gel to hold me over while i was awaiting delivery. That stuff broke down the silicone on the screen like nobodies business a couple hours after printing. Whats funny is it didn't work great for plastisol but it was the best I could do at the time.
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"As far as cleanup, it is a little bit of a struggle. It is very important to wash the screens as soon as possible! We are still working out the details and the screen guy says he often has to use screen opener, but I just washed a screen after use and it cleared quickly and easily (gold ink)."
Try using PlastiSolv, makes cleanup of the silicone a no-brainer, mineral spirits are great too but those are getting expensive nowadays. if you can't get to it for a while cover it up so it is airtight with a peice of plastic wrap, both sides of the screen, that will buy you some time, but definitely don't want to hang em til tomorrow...
excuse my ignorance as I am still new to the industry . . . What's PlastiSolv? WHo makes it?
pierre
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"As far as cleanup, it is a little bit of a struggle. It is very important to wash the screens as soon as possible! We are still working out the details and the screen guy says he often has to use screen opener, but I just washed a screen after use and it cleared quickly and easily (gold ink)."
Try using PlastiSolv, makes cleanup of the silicone a no-brainer, mineral spirits are great too but those are getting expensive nowadays. if you can't get to it for a while cover it up so it is airtight with a peice of plastic wrap, both sides of the screen, that will buy you some time, but definitely don't want to hang em til tomorrow...
excuse my ignorance as I am still new to the industry . . . What's PlastiSolv? WHo makes it?
pierre
Not exactly a press wash. http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/SP004 (http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/product/SP004)
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I'm not sure but I think plastisolve is something like brake cleaner, I'm sure it's just repurposed from some other industry.
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I'll have to go back and get the actual number, its not the aerosolized cleaner mentioned a couple of posts up, though that may work too. It had an orange smell to it. Common solvents like OMS and IPA will also work but since this works so well, I've never had to try anything else. Traveling for the next couple weeks but when i get back in, will post the product number.
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I think that's the VOC compliant version of C-60, or trichloroethylene.
IIRC, it's mostly acetone, some alcohol, and a bit of hydrocarbon.
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Sorry guys for the late comeback - been a bit crazy lately. This cleaner was mineral spirits based on the feel, did not evaporate like acetone but I can't find the gallon for the life of me. I've used it interchangeably on my plastisol and silicone inks with great results, it had an orange smell to it. afraid I can't give the actual product number though it was a Plastisolve product, maybe 842???
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sorry to bring up an old thread. getting a lot of our jersey work in now and i have one customer whos jerseys are 80 nylon, 20 spandex. very stretchy jerseys. anyone have experience with the silicone ink on nylon?
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If he doesn't respond here, contact Rob Coleman at Nazdar Source One.
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well to answer my own question, i cannot get it to adhere to nylon. i had some old jackets and bag panels made of nylon in the back and did some test prints. scratches right off. adheres to the poly shirts just fine.
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Just to clarify, not nylon jerseys, but rather ripstop type stuff.
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i did not have any extra jerseys to test on, so i only had whatever nylon items i had laying around. not sure if the 80/20 nylon/spandex mix that the jerseys are made of would have a different result. if i can get an extra one or two from my customer, ill give them a test.
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The answer is .... it depends! :)
Really depends upon the weave, fabric treatment etc. The product is designed for poly's not nylons.
Out of curiosity - which product number are you testing?
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We tested it on a Rox volleyball jersey. 80/20 nylon/spandex. It cured, but peeled right off. Just did not adhere. Also tested it on some nylon bag panels and Ultra Club 8925 pouch jacket and had the same result. Basically whatever I had laying around that was nylon.
Works great on the poly stuff though!
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I tried nylon as well and it failed, but on poly it's sweet!