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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Prosperi-Tees on May 11, 2013, 12:38:09 AM
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Any one own and operate one of these oldie but goodies? Can you give me the ins and outs, the pros the cons etc etc. Real close to pulling the trigger on one.
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Any one own and operate one of these oldie but goodies? Can you give me the ins and outs, the pros the cons etc etc. Real close to pulling the trigger on one.
Are you good with tools, can you make simple adjustments, do you under "cause and effect".
If your answer is "yes" then, I would say consider a CH 1.
Early 90's and up are preferred. Would only consider 12c and under. Standard only. (Jumbo No)
Willing to "really understand" the screen print process vs. "not as much" screen print knowledge" relying
on more user friendly presses. Mosier index preferred, but not a deal killer. Flip up front screen holders, a must.
A larger air compressor is needed. Good for those who are on a budget, but need to be automated. Prints
good size prints, and can be "modified" to print "jumbo" if needed. Will print 50-60 dz per hour all day long.
I put the CH 1 in the same "icon" class as the Precision Oval. A lot of $$ has been made on both. Again, If
you are a "hands on" type of guy, then consider. If not pass! People, ask me all the time, if I had a hundred
grand to spend which equipment would I buy? I say for that money I would Buy Six CH 1's a few "Ovals",
and I would become "king" of low cost 10 color and under work, with good capacity. With paid off machines! But, I more than understand, these presses.
winston
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People, ask me all the time, if I had a hundred grand to spend which equipment would I buy? I say for that money I would Buy Six CH 1's a few "Ovals",
and I would become "king" of low cost 10 color and under work, with good capacity. With paid off machines!
Winston: This is a very insightful response, proving that not everything shiny and new is always the best choice, and it confirms that the best advice for any equipment buyer is to know thier market and production requirements.
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Great input. My production requirements are really easy 1-3 color prints for the most part. Would like about 300 pieces an hour. I don't mind working on things, don't like it but don't mind it. The machine wouldn't get super heavy use. I have a budget of 10K and would really rather not have lease payments. Im a cash and carry kind of guy.
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People, ask me all the time, if I had a hundred grand to spend which equipment would I buy? I say for that money I would Buy Six CH 1's a few "Ovals",
and I would become "king" of low cost 10 color and under work, with good capacity. With paid off machines!
Winston: This is a very insightful response, proving that not everything shiny and new is always the best choice, and it confirms that the best advice for any equipment buyer is to know thier market and production requirements.
Peter!
From a printers perspective, I would hopefully turn some numbers, make a decent ROI, put money in my pocket, and live to print another day.
From a suppliers perspective, I wouldn't care which brand of machine, you are using, as long as your slinging
ink, supplies and hopefully have a stable business. (new or used doesn't matter)
On used machines, you had best know whom your dealing with, and do your homework!
From a manufacturers point of view., everything is good if you buy my brand. (whatever brand that may be).
I do believe that buying new, has its advantages, and for most is probably the way to go!
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On used machines, you had best know whom your dealing with, and do your homework!
I do believe that buying new, has its advantages, and for most is probably the way to go!
Winston; My advice (for what it's worth) to printers buying their first automatic screen-printing press is to seriously consider the value of the manufacturer’s warranty, initial training at installation and support provided by the local distributor in helping them optimize the performance of their first automatic press. Of course, not everyone has the financial resources to “Buy-New” and as such they are looking in the used market, which is when things get much more complicated. The area where I have the most issues with are those People/Companies that position themselves as “Equipment Brokers.”
Unfortunately in many case these Equipment Brokers don’t add any value beyond looking to skim some cash off of a deal between two independent parties. The road of screen-printing is littered with people who thought that they were buying from an experienced industry resource, only to later discover these companies were selling equipment sight unseen, without any responsibility to make sure the condition and performance of the equipment was equal to what they had represented. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against anyone purchasing used equipment at all, because there are some great deals to be had.
My advice to anyone buying used is similar to what you provided. Are you hands on, and self-sufficient? Let “The Buyer Beware” Anytime a screen-printer is buying equipment from an equipment broker or a re-seller, they need to determine the level value and support that these companies are providing. As I stated earlier, there are some companies (& individuals) out there who are little more than “skimmers and scammers” but thankfully there are also some really dedicated folks/companies that purchase use equipment that they recondition, install, train, and then support the heck out of. My advice would be to ask for references and to post on this and other Industry Forums confirming their validity.
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with Peter here. Buy new or as good as new for the first press. You don't want to be asking yourself if the problem is in the press or what you are doing. It makes the learning significantly more difficult.
lease payment is not a bad thing. Put some money down and have a small payment. You can build your credit and get more press. Don't forget that you will have sever k worth of expenses for the auxiliary equipment and electric/air installation. We spent close to $8k on getting the press in.
pierre
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I would also recommend new or like new. With a new press your payment would be $1000 to $5000 per month depending on size, accessories, etc... You will setup and run much quicker. You will easily print a few million prints with minimal repairs. Add all those time savings and faster production and you will easily cover the cost of your payment.
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I would really like to have a brand new press but I refuse to carry debt. I worked very hard to become debt free and have been for the past 5 years. With that thinking I either buy used or don't buy at all and keep plugging away printing manually.
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IMHO, If you can see it running, bring some screens in and run a job or two, it's a world away from buying a pile of press from a broker.
I think the only other thing I'd add--if you're going to buy used, get an independent tech to look at it. Might seem like it hurts shelling out to get someone to look at it, but you're better off out a grand than ten...
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I would really like to have a brand new press but I refuse to carry debt. I worked very hard to become debt free and have been for the past 5 years. With that thinking I either buy used or don't buy at all and keep plugging away printing manually.
Debt is at times a way to make more money....When you incur the right debt and the right piece of automatic equipment , you make more money and/or have more free time.....
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Unfortunately, some equipment choices have various tax implications to consider. If your tax planning for say 179 accelerated depreciation shields a certain amount of income, new may be the best answer.
Only you and your CPA can calculate the effects.
Bizarre, but true.
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I bought new this last year..holy crap did it help with my taxes!
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I would really like to have a brand new press but I refuse to carry debt. I worked very hard to become debt free and have been for the past 5 years. With that thinking I either buy used or don't buy at all and keep plugging away printing manually.
Debt is at times a way to make more money....When you incur the right debt and the right piece of automatic equipment , you make more money and/or have more free time.....
Can't agree more. A new car or bigger home is debt. It is just a luxury. But I look at a payment on a piece of revenue producing equipment the same way I look at marketing or employee payroll. It's the cost of business.
Now only you can decide if it is a necessary piece of equipment or a luxury.
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My hat is off to the original poster for Having A Plan!
He has a budget(smart), and does not want to get into debt ( I appreciate that too).
So the question is do I automate or not. Do I wait?
Only he knows, his goals, commitments, resources, dreams etc.
His question is the CH1 good or bad?
What are his abilities, talents? (he knows)
Do we all make perfect steps in our business? No, but we hope that if we don't make
The wisest choice, we can hopefully learn, hope that there is not much damage, and go on
With growing and keeping our business!
But again "kudos" for having a plan! Just that fact shows me that you have a better chance than most!
We all have to start from somewhere.
winston
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A while back I had a chat with a young fellow and his wife (she was stressed) about whether or not payments on an automatic press were a good or bad idea.......Based on how much labour he was paying to keep up on his manual, I thought it was a "no brainer".....I can not remember all the math but as I recall the payments were just under 700.00 a month and he was paying 950.00 to 1,200 a month in casual labour.....Now the automatic press did not completely eliminate the casual labour but with his wife's help, he was able to get more done in 4 days than he had in the past in 6 days (has a life now).....In time his volume will grow and the math will get even better.....This is my mind is "good debt"......
PS....Although we all know that a good manual printer can turn out great work, there is a "perception" that a person with an automatic press is better....You can exploit this "perception" in you marketing....
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A while back I had a chat with a young fellow and his wife (she was stressed) about whether or not payments on an automatic press were a good or bad idea.......Based on how much labour he was paying to keep up on his manual, I thought it was a "no brainer".....I can not remember all the math but as I recall the payments were just under 700.00 a month and he was paying 950.00 to 1,200 a month in casual labour.....Now the automatic press did not completely eliminate the casual labour but with his wife's help, he was able to get more done in 4 days than he had in the past in 6 days (has a life now).....In time his volume will grow and the math will get even better.....This is my mind is "good debt"......
PS....Although we all know that a good manual printer can turn out great work, there is a "perception" that a person with an automatic press is better....You can exploit this "perception" in you marketing....
I hear where you are coming from!
I am a BIG fan of automation. Have been for 30 years. I am a Bigger fan, of looking at the numbers.
I make my living off of automation. I have been on all sides of the wheel, printing, supplying, manufacturing,
Servicing. I believe going automated, can be the biggest blessings or the down fall of a printer. I believe that
one should add debt of any kind with as much wisdom. I have seen and known of people who have started
with nothing and made millions, and vice versa. There is a "perception" that If I do this, this, and this that
this WILL happen. Not Always! I am as of now in Jacksonville,Fl. There are say 75 automated machines here.
Only 20% run with satisfactory numbers. The rest can't even fill multiple manual presses to capacity will month
after month sales. Why did they go automated? The biggest answer I hear is that " I thought that if I went
automated" then I would surely get a lot more business. Really! Sometimes that is true. Some even move into
larger space, increasing overhead. Betting on the come. Sometimes the plan works, but most of the time when
it does work, the people just got plain lucky. Still others(a very few) were successful because their plan worked!
Bravo. I also highly recommend that people going from manual to automation first for a period of time, sub
out and grow their business on the machine downtime of other printers who can't fill there automated machine.
IMHO more printers go out of business, because of a lack of "PROFITABLE" sales, then because of not being
able to put out orders. I also hear " I would but, other printers just can't deliver my quality". Really! You must
not be looking very hard. We each have in our mind what "a lot of work is". The answers will vary greatly. It
is more reason why, we should have as much good info from others who have "skin in the game" on our
behalf. On a whole, our industry is shrinking/changing. There is a lot of "Great" opportunity to do really well
and thrive. However, there are no "Givens" anymore. At a low level, any one can increase or double sales. The
larger you get, it however becomes not as easy feeding the beast of growth and keeping your bottom line
healthy.
winston
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all good advice. I ultimately have to live with the decision to go auto or not, buy used or new, go into (good debt) or continue to have no debt. Its a tough decision for me as I have a family of 5 that depends on me making good decisions.
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I would just be careful who you buy from and certainly go see it or use it even before buying. A lot of these brokers out there aren't on the up and up. Some good ones out there I am sure.
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I would just be careful who you buy from and certainly go see it or use it even before buying. A lot of these brokers out there aren't on the up and up. Some good ones out there I am sure.
Funny! I don't see the poster talking about brokers! A lot of the machines I install are sold
printer to printer. I would also add be very careful of buying machines printer to printer,
the presses are also sometimes misrepresented. And then on the other hand, some of the
startups going into the business, say they are going in because they are tired of being screwed by
screen printers. I have herd that a lot over the years! The cycle continues....
I guess we should just all outsource to Tijuana and really build our businesses. Makes sense.
Most are printing incredible prints on the latest equipment. The trucks go back and forth across the border
everyday. If you guys need names, let me know!
winston
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You guys actually are making my decision tougher lol! ;D
The machine im looking at is thru a broker but he is a well respected broker and even offers a parts warranty upon install.
I think im making my decision tough as well. Nothing has come easy in my life. I dropped out of school in the 7th grade and started working. I think that has developed me into somewhat of a tightwad and making big decisions are even tougher because I like to hold on to things in fear of losing them. I guess I should stop living in fear and take some chances.
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You guys actually are making my decision tougher lol! ;D
The machine im looking at is thru a broker but he is a well respected broker and even offers a parts warranty upon install.
I think im making my decision tough as well. Nothing has come easy in my life. I dropped out of school in the 7th grade and started working. I think that has developed me into somewhat of a tightwad and making big decisions are even tougher because I like to hold on to things in fear of losing them. I guess I should stop living in fear and take some chances.
No risk no reward, but don't take any risk without caution or calculation.
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You guys actually are making my decision tougher lol! ;D
The machine im looking at is thru a broker but he is a well respected broker and even offers a parts warranty upon install.
I think im making my decision tough as well. Nothing has come easy in my life. I dropped out of school in the 7th grade and started working. I think that has developed me into somewhat of a tightwad and making big decisions are even tougher because I like to hold on to things in fear of losing them. I guess I should stop living in fear and take some chances.
No risk no reward, but don't take any risk without caution or calculation.
Great Advice!
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All great advise here. The thing you have to ask yourself is... Do I want to automate to increase my business or Do I want to automate to make my like easier? With that answer you will make the right decision.
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It would be automate to increase business. I need to make my life harder before I can make it easier. :D
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Something that often is over looked is the "extras" when buying a press or any piece of equipment. This is what will nickel and dime you to death. Need to look at the big picture.
Someone has a budget of $20k and finds a machine for $19k. Sure you found the machine for $1k less, that's great but now you need a $2k compressor, $1k chiller, $500 in pipe and fittings, hose and a filter then another $1k in wire and plugs and maybe a disconnect. You may have to hire an electrican to do the hook up for another $500. Add in the cost of shipping and the lost hours of production while the machine is being set up. Then the cost of the install plus expenses. It all adds up quickly and can easily add anothe $5-$6k to the cost of the press and now well over the $20k budget.
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Something that often is over looked is the "extras" when buying a press or any piece of equipment. This is what will nickel and dime you to death. Need to look at the big picture.
Someone has a budget of $20k and finds a machine for $19k. Sure you found the machine for $1k less, that's great but now you need a $2k compressor, $1k chiller, $500 in pipe and fittings, hose and a filter then another $1k in wire and plugs and maybe a disconnect. You may have to hire an electrican to do the hook up for another $500. Add in the cost of shipping and the lost hours of production while the machine is being set up. Then the cost of the install plus expenses. It all adds up quickly and can easily add anothe $5-$6k to the cost of the press and now well over the $20k budget.
I agree, we spent right at 10k getting our press and gas dryer installed. That was in a shop with 400 amp service and the press is in the same corner as the electrical box. Electrical, Gas Lines, Vent the dryer, lift rental for tall ceiling, etc. It adds up really fast!
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or better yet, you already invested in a NEW compressor, NEW chiller, NEW lines...and you still don't have enough cfm....those old machines take some serious volume, really think about it before you buy it....
my new chiller and tank arrive today :-\
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or better yet, you already invested in a NEW compressor, NEW chiller, NEW lines...and you still don't have enough cfm....those old machines take some serious volume, really think about it before you buy it....
my new chiller and tank arrive today :-\
Exactly this. Those older all air presses use A LOT of air. Minumum 3 phase compressor as no single phase HP motor could spin a pump big enough to keep those beasts happy.
And on Winston's Oval comment. It takes a SEASONED professional to have the gonads to suggest running a shop full of old ovals in this day and age! ;D
My advice, and this is what I did, would be to take that cash and put it toward a newer press with a loan to buy the rate down a little or to shorten the term. Something with AC heads and known reliability here in 2013 :)
Also what I did was gather up the compressor and chiller (and bigger dryer!) BEFORE I bought a press and had it all wired and ready to go so those costs were behind be by the time I pulled the trigger on the press.
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If its your first auto, I like the idea of it being new. That's just me. Not saying you can't make used work for you. But that's just how I like to do things. I should be worrying about how to sell orders for it to print, not worrying about how to make it print.
If you knew your way around a older press and such, I would say go for the older one.
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If its your first auto, I like the idea of it being new. That's just me. Not saying you can't make used work for you. But that's just how I like to do things. I should be worrying about how to sell orders for it to print, not worrying about how to make it print.
If you knew your way around a older press and such, I would say go for the older one.
Flip the coin though and compare this to your first car. Was it new? Did you need it to get to work? Did it break down and did you fix it yourself? If my first car was brand new, I wouldn't know jack about fixing cars, but I guess I would have made it to work a couple more times than not!
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It's also not his first automatic.
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If its your first auto, I like the idea of it being new. That's just me. Not saying you can't make used work for you. But that's just how I like to do things. I should be worrying about how to sell orders for it to print, not worrying about how to make it print.
If you knew your way around a older press and such, I would say go for the older one.
Flip the coin though and compare this to your first car. Was it new? Did you need it to get to work? Did it break down and did you fix it yourself? If my first car was brand new, I wouldn't know jack about fixing cars, but I guess I would have made it to work a couple more times than not!
My first car was a truck and it was brand new yes. 1994 Toyota Pick up
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It's also not his first automatic.
Was a general comment for others reading....
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I agree with Brandt, a new auto is a great thing for first time buyers. That doesn't mean it's right for everyone, but it's not a bad idea.
I am on a used kick right now. I think if it's a good piece of equipment and it's installed properly and gone through by a tech, it should be a better bang for your buck.
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Arrgghh maybe ill get a couple quotes today for new, almost new with servo/ ac heads.
My electrician is cheap, I have a compressor although maybe small for an older press, I have a dryer that can do 300 an hour.
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Am I the only one wondering what happened with your last auto relationship?
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If its your first auto, I like the idea of it being new. That's just me. Not saying you can't make used work for you. But that's just how I like to do things. I should be worrying about how to sell orders for it to print, not worrying about how to make it print.
If you knew your way around a older press and such, I would say go for the older one.
Flip the coin though and compare this to your first car. Was it new? Did you need it to get to work? Did it break down and did you fix it yourself? If my first car was brand new, I wouldn't know jack about fixing cars, but I guess I would have made it to work a couple more times than not!
I hear what Brandt is sayin, and I cant disagree, Great advice!
My first car was a $70 1964 Nova2 station wagon bought at 14 years of age. "Nescesity is "the mother of
invention. it taught me a lot. In many years of printing, printers have become less hands on. IMO art development has been the Biggest Game Changer, followed by Better Screen Making which came from the
graphic side of the screen print industry, Not machinery. Machinery has become very user friendly, which has
brought the industry forward. With machines getting better, the level of "craftsmen" has fallen big time, but
other industries have had the same problem. Years ago you couldn't pull the wool over any operator, production
manager, shop owner. They were on top of their game. It has all changed! I am in some shops today, and
the breaker has flipped, everyone is panicked, and I asked if they have checked the breaker, and they say what
is that! Hmmm. The industry in the last number of years has not encouraged continuing education like the 1980's. It is Why our friend Tony :), is so valuable. There has been a resurgence of intro level screen print
schools, which is a good thing. Free flow of information, is a positive force, badly needed in this industry. If this
industry is going to prosper and not just survive, there has to be a way for people to go step 1,2,3,4,5etc. If we
cant figure a way to reach for a way to support our families, then why be in the screen print industry. Go make
a living where the risk vs. reward is a little and more profitable and safer. You think I am off base? Let the
mass of the "industry" go to their banker, with their numbers and ask for a sizable loan. Only 10% would
qualify. Maybe manufactures should offer "rent to own" or "pay as you print programs" if they feel that their
equipment would be a "win -win". In Orlando at the "table of friends", I asked the question, that if your children
came to you and asked "Mom /Dad" should I go into the Screen print business for a career, what would you say?
Could you look in the mirror, and say YES! Mine asked me that very question the night before. Which is why I
asked. Years ago, I would have said, YES. The people at the table agreed! If we are to survive and prosper as
an industry, there has to be a way forward, where One can grow their business, based on good business principles, from the bottom to the top. If not, Digital will take over. PERIOD! I am sorry to say that at this time
I had to say, your energy would show more fruit in another field. There has to still be away to rub " two nickels
together, to make a dollar" rather than "start with a dollar, and end up with a nickel". The hope of the industry,
is going to fall on "you young whippersnappers" rather than the "old men" who are at this point in life, stepping
on our Gonads! You Guy Can Do It! Work Smart, Hard, And take Time To Play.
winston
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Challengers are quite a bit bigger than their little brother the Gauntlet.
Larger print area, but an equally larger footprint and air requirement.
My first press was a 6 color Auto-Rototex 2. I had several thousand piece orders coming in.
I loved that press, but if I had to do it all over again I would have waited for an 8 color Gauntlet.
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Am I the only one wondering what happened with your last auto relationship?
Well I sold the last auto to pursue another business with a partner that went south and me being ripped off for 10K (got it back). The problem is I spent the last 6 months not really working on the business and I am feeling the effects of it now. I scaled back the screen printing for this other venture, moved into a larger shop and now I am using about 500 sq ft of a 1750 sq ft shop. So I am back into my business and am determined to grow this thing. I need to get an auto to grow and be comfortable going after some larger jobs.
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Nothing wrong with a Challenger I. We still have 2 of 'em here. Things to watch out for -- ask for a new program battery to be installed before it's shipped -- you don't want to lose the program because it's unlpugged too long in transit. Keep in mind the C-200-H CPU's are totally obsolete and getting harder to find, if they do blow. ll the engineers at M&R who wrote the programs for these machines are long gone. They can load a program onto a CPU, but the real knowledge base is gone.
I would have an independent press tech who has no interest in the sale inspect the central shaft bearings. Everything else on a CH I is modular & can be replaced, but if the central shaft bearings are loose, it won't register, & will hardly be worth repairing.
Other than that, although they're slower than a new machine, they're still very solid presses. We work ours to death, and they're still going strong at 19 & 21 years old, respectively.
Spare parts you'll want on hand: Squeegee chopper cylinders, 45A mac valves, and lots of hose, & some unions to splice hoses if/when they get torn. Make sure the oiler works, and if it doesn't replace that right away. I've seen so many presses with non-functioning oilers, & the vales get sticky. Keep the 10 wt. flowing!
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Gerry get a hold of me and I can tell you what you need to know on this machine. Cvreeland has a good chunk covered. Maybe I will even sell you mine and I will get a new one..... ;)
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Thanks J for the info! I ended up buying it today. It is being torn down and crated tomorrow and will ship as soon as I can find a shipper.
Also it was great talking with Winston. We might have him install it if it fits his schedule.
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You won't go wrong with winston on your install...I should have had him do all of mine
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Thanks J for the info! I ended up buying it today. It is being torn down and crated tomorrow and will ship as soon as I can find a shipper.
Also it was great talking with Winston. We might have him install it if it fits his schedule.
No problem. You made a good buy as long as it is what is advertised. I am sure it is.I have heard nothing but good things about Winston.
I have some spare micros for that thing that are brand new incase you need to replace some.
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Oops I forgot to mention Bill Foust is the broker we are going thru. Very happy with the communication from him so far. I have heard nothing but good things about him as well.
I will keep you in mind J for sure. Thanks
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Well I almost got the new press today. The shipper did not communicate to me until 2 hours before the truck showed up so I was not prepared with a forklift!! Oh well it is gonna be 102-109 degrees this weekend so I would not have wanted to mess with it. I will have the crates in the shop on Monday morning.
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Awesome!!!
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I'm not finding much info about Bill Faust. I keep a folder full of bookmarks for used equipment dealers, and would like to add him to it, if he has a web page.
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I'm not finding much info about Bill Faust. I keep a folder full of bookmarks for used equipment dealers, and would like to add him to it, if he has a web page.
I know he runs this place.
http://aero-inc.com/ (http://aero-inc.com/)
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I'm not finding much info about Bill Faust. I keep a folder full of bookmarks for used equipment dealers, and would like to add him to it, if he has a web page.
we bought a dryer through him last year and he was a pleasure to deal with. There were no issues with the dryer as Bill was very upfront about it so I can't tell what would happen if there was a problem, but everybody we talked to spoke highly of him and he assured us that he would take care of any issues ( and there is ZERO reasons to not believe him).
pierre
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Well this thing is probably a paper weight now. The trucking company damaged this thing like you wouldn't believe. I am pissed!!!
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And that is just what is obvious
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sh1t, that printhead is toast. The hub of the machine might be ok. this is why insurance is an important thing.
I hate to see good equipment like this get trashed become useless. Same thing that happened to our van.
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That is 2 different printheads! That's just what I can see.
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Hope you got GOOD insurance for this sucker. Gonna cost a lot, if not totally pointless to fix.
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Just found a 3rd one bent to hell. I dont know what "good" insurance is but I got insurance on it. Crap now I have to find another machine which totally blows cause my money is tied up in this scrap metal! I am screwed!!!
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HOLY SH!T.....Gerry!? did the truck flip over?! what's their excuse? I would have beat the driver until I was swinging stumps...what does bill have to say? holy smokes...I feel terrible for you.
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Gerry,
I have spare parts to fix it. Your F'd if they damaged the PLC and that is what matters. Those all thread parts are weak and bend easy. That machine is a tank and unless it fell off the truck it will be ok.
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Yeah I am sure it can be fixed but I dont have the money to pour into this thing. I am going to file a claim and see what happens. This has just broke my spirit. I am dang near broke financially as it is and now this.
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Yeah, you wanted to replace the all thread anyway, it's always a blast to level out print heads fighting with crusty ink...
Sucks though, if nothing else, you never get your time back because of insurance.
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What sucks is I have to spend 1500-2000 to assemble this thing to find out all thats damaged for the insurance claim!
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i will bill back some of the assembly stating that it took longer with damaged parts...and they are going to have multiple trips out.
Have a tech come in and look first....everything will be OK...KEEP TRACK OF YOUR EXPENSES!!!!
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Look at the first pics earlier in this thread and then look how it showed up here.
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REALLY sucks, super sorry to see it. But I can't say it surprises me with used equipment. Rarely if ever is it crated like it would be if it was a new machine. Then you have trucking companies who really just don't give a crap and when you put those two together its going to be a party.
Who crated it your broker or the trucking company or the actual seller?
I hope you didn't sign away your rights when it was delivered. I know some of those documents your signature means its all a okay.
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REALLY sucks, super sorry to see it. But I can't say it surprises me with used equipment. Rarely if ever is it crated like it would be if it was a new machine. Then you have trucking companies who really just don't give a crap and when you put those two together its going to be a party.
Who crated it your broker or the trucking company or the actual seller?
I hope you didn't sign away your rights when it was delivered. I know some of those documents your signature means its all a okay.
Bill Foust did the crating. I fully trust his crating was fine. He has been crating machines for transport for 20+ years. I wrote damaged, further inspection required and initialed
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Hopefully your insurance company isn't a bunch of douches and will pony up some reimbursement.
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Keep your chin up Gerry. Just another hurdle in the road to greatness. I feel like I've been battling them for
two months now.
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i've been battling them as well.
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Keep your chin up Gerry. Just another hurdle in the road to greatness. I feel like I've been battling them for
two months now.
Thanks, I know you have been going thru it as well. I guess at least I have somewhat of a machine to show for it though unlike yourself.
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Word. The gall of some people is unbelievable.
But that's actually on the bottom of the list. PG$E screwed up my address change, again,
got a bill for someone else's address. When they did that years ago it was $3500, automatic
withdrawal. (school bus natural gas refill facility)
You might get a couple working heads at least, eh?
We're here if you need anything man.
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Bill Foust did the crating. I fully trust his crating was fine. He has been crating machines for transport for 20+ years. I wrote damaged, further inspection required and initialed
I hope it works out good man. I know id be sick to my stomach, I know when you have money on the line and things are tight no worse feeling then something going wrong.
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Keep your chin up Gerry. Just another hurdle in the road to greatness. I feel like I've been battling them for
two months now.
Thanks, I know you have been going thru it as well. I guess at least I have somewhat of a machine to show for it though unlike yourself.
I would be careful with how much I do to the press for a while. I think they are going to claim improperly crated and reject your claim based on the crating I see. I am not trying to say Bill crated it improperly but if they compare the crate I see to the crate we ship in you might have an issue. Just a fyi.
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Good lord, they effed that thing up. Hang in there man.
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[/quote] I would be careful with how much I do to the press for a while. I think they are going to claim improperly crated and reject your claim based on the crating I see. I am not trying to say Bill crated it improperly but if they compare the crate I see to the crate we ship in you might have an issue. Just a fyi.
[/quote]
Might be good words of advice from Rich. Even though you may have taken an insurance rider on the shipment they very may have terms of how the product was to be crated etc which may preclude you from claiming against the insurance and will have to then make a claim with the carrier. I really feel for your and hope it all works out fast and smooth.
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I've never had to file claim on freight but I bet ya a nickel they will do all they can to get out of it. This is where proper freight class, crating, and crossing those Ts and dotting the Is might make or break the situation for you. I wouldn't make a move until you get pics to them of the situation and get an initial response. I'm sure Bill will be very helpful here given the number of shipments he goes through in a year.
What I hate about freight damage is how you sometimes can't see what's going on until you uncrate completely and the LTL companies feel like their no longer responsible at that point.
Keep calm and stay on point with it, you'll pull through.
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Man that is ruff stuff! I can only imagine what you must be going through. Was it you or someone else who was asking about freight classifications a bit back? Here is a good lesson for everyone why it is important to use the right one. I hope everything works out for you, that would be a hell of a pickle to be in.
Do you mind if I ask what freight company shipped the press? Please keep us all updated on what happens. With the amount of used equipment out there it is bound to be helpful for someone down the line.... Just sucks it happened though.
Good luck, I'm not a religious man by any means but I always think things happen for a reason. Not saying you deserve something bad, lets just hope something way better comes out of it!
Heres to hoping/wishing the insurance buys you a NEW CH IIID!(or whatever it is you daydream about)
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It ended up being class 175. I will reveal the trucking company when this gets worked out.
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Update?
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Just filing claims. Freight declined to inspect the freight. Other than that it looks like I will have someone to assemble this thing in the next week or two. The claim process can take up to 120 days.
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Just filing claims. Freight declined to inspect the freight. Other than that it looks like I will have someone to assemble this thing in the next week or two. The claim process can take up to 120 days.
WOW that long?
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Yeah that was my thought but the law states they have 30 days to even acknowledge a claim and 120 days to make a determination
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Yeah that was my thought but the law states they have 30 days to even acknowledge a claim and 120 days to make a determination
OUCH! Keep us updated, that's wild 120 days is acceptable amount of time.
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I seriously would not get a tech in there! There is a high likelihood of not being able to get it up and running properly or the freight company just scrapping the whole thing. You'll be spending money on something you might not recover. Even if they give you the money to replace the bent pieces, there is no guarantee that you don't have a bent shaft or some other critical issue that they would then refuse to cover.
Have them reimburse you for the press and have BIll find you another one.
pierre
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I seriously would not get a tech in there! There is a high likelihood of not being able to get it up and running properly or the freight company just scrapping the whole thing. You'll be spending money on something you might not recover. Even if they give you the money to replace the bent pieces, there is no guarantee that you don't have a bent shaft or some other critical issue that they would then refuse to cover.
Have them reimburse you for the press and have BIll find you another one.
pierre
Thats what I was thinking. SECOND you start putting it together I think you'd have less of a case. Id demand full payment for press and buy another one.
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I seriously would not get a tech in there! There is a high likelihood of not being able to get it up and running properly or the freight company just scrapping the whole thing. You'll be spending money on something you might not recover. Even if they give you the money to replace the bent pieces, there is no guarantee that you don't have a bent shaft or some other critical issue that they would then refuse to cover.
Have them reimburse you for the press and have BIll find you another one.
pierre
That is what I would like to do. I just have to wait for responses on the claims. This sucks cause now I am getting busy and no auto!
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I second Pierre's suggestion...and not that you need us all telling you what to do here, haha,...but it is a very real possibility that your tech time spent exploring whether or not the press is totally fubar will outweigh the machine's value. Have a tech come in and verify the machine is "totalled", provide that to the freight co. and it might help steer them into just refunding your $ and you can move on to another challenger, harvesting the useable parts from this one and scrapping the rest of it.
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I would bring a tech in to inspect it. Do your homework. The tech should be able to tell you what is good and bad and if it's fixable. It's better to go into the claim full of knowledge than to go in not know what's going on.
What happens if the M&R factory tech says it's a total loss because the center shaft is jacked and their tech says it's fixable?
This is very similar to what happened to my van a couple months back. I had my figures all worked up already for the insurance, a lot of folks would have just taken the original offer and been done with it.
Education.
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Unfourtinatly if the machine is totaled by an outside "expert" the shipper may only pay fare market value which may be below the paid price. You may also loose the cost of shipping and any other incurred expenses. The shipper/insurer will do what ever they can to not have to pay a dime.
Just being the devils advocate.
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Tough spot. I see good/bad of both ways.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime as they say. In this case you bought used, these things happens with used stuff. Not that can't happen with new, I mean look how many presses ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR WUBYAAAAAAAAAA BEEEEEEEEEEE has dropped. Talking more about like true professional companies.
Sorry to see it happen though.
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Tough spot. I see good/bad of both ways.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime as they say. In this case you bought used, these things happens with used stuff. Not that can't happen with new, I mean look how many presses ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR WUBYAAAAAAAAAA BEEEEEEEEEEE has dropped. Talking more about like true professional companies.
Sorry to see it happen though.
I didn't see it drop just a loud thud and what sounded like a little girl screaming when seeing a spider ;D
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Tough spot. I see good/bad of both ways.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime as they say. In this case you bought used, these things happens with used stuff. Not that can't happen with new, I mean look how many presses ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR WUBYAAAAAAAAAA BEEEEEEEEEEE has dropped. Talking more about like true professional companies.
Sorry to see it happen though.
I didn't see it drop just a loud thud and what sounded like a little girl screaming when seeing a spider ;D
:D
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This sucks having to look at this trashed press in pieces spread across 6 pallets and not being able to do anything about it.
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I wonder if he has an installer come in and install everything that is usable and have the machine running for him if he can also roll the tech charges into his claim. He could say that he intended to do the install himself but then had to hire a tech because of the damage.
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I wonder if he has an installer come in and install everything that is usable and have the machine running for him if he can also roll the tech charges into his claim. He could say that he intended to do the install himself but then had to hire a tech because of the damage.
Probably would depend on the terms of the insurance on the goods. I would assume no. In other words I would assume if the goods are worth X, he cant make more than X on the deal.
I think for me if the press has been hit that hard in any place I wouldn't want it at that point and I would push hard for it to be "totaled". I think with the age of the machine that could help his case. "Parts are hard to get". (even though not totally true).
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I wonder if he has an installer come in and install everything that is usable and have the machine running for him if he can also roll the tech charges into his claim. He could say that he intended to do the install himself but then had to hire a tech because of the damage.
Probably would depend on the terms of the insurance on the goods. I would assume no. In other words I would assume if the goods are worth X, he cant make more than X on the deal.
I think for me if the press has been hit that hard in any place I wouldn't want it at that point and I would push hard for it to be "totaled". I think with the age of the machine that could help his case. "Parts are hard to get". (even though not totally true).
ditto!
pierre
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Sorry to hear about your problems......
As a former insurance adjuster I can tell trucking (and moving company) insurance claims sucked...They find every possible way to "squirm" out of paying claims or blame them on someone else........You will probably need a lawyer......And with most claims like this, any costs to prove your claim are usually not covered......
Good luck....
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I've yet to see an insurance claim that someone didn't try and squirm out of.
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Any updates?
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Nothing, cant even get a repair estimate from a tech.
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Nothing, cant even get a repair estimate from a tech.
Rumor has it that a california dreamer is out your way. 8) 8) 8)
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The Dreamer is nearby. A few hours away probably. But had a local M&R tech out 2 weeks ago and haven't heard back. Something tells me they want no part in this, I guess that's understandable seeing that they didn't sell it to me.
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The Dreamer is nearby. A few hours away probably. But had a local M&R tech out 2 weeks ago and haven't heard back. Something tells me they want no part in this, I guess that's understandable seeing that they didn't sell it to me.
I have checked our service reports and dont see a service call from our group or a request. What was the technicians name?
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His name is Onesemio, I believe that's how you spell it. Im not in the office so his card is not in front of me at the moment.
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He turned it in to his manager who had not processed it. You should get a quote shortly. I still think its a waste of money to buy this machine but I understand the reasoning.
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He turned it in to his manager who had not processed it. You should get a quote shortly. I still think its a waste of money to buy this machine but I understand the reasoning.
Thanks Rich, I am hoping to get out from under this and into something else. I understand it is not worth it to fix it and hope the estimate reiterates that to the insurance company.
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I want to say thank you to Rich and Dan Goldberg from M&R for getting me the info I needed.
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Now the question is do I keep it? I would need to negotiate a depreciated value for the press which would come off the claim amount. I could then either scrap it or sell parts from it. Or I could let the ins co sell it at auction and be done with it.
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I could then either scrap it or sell parts from it. Or I could let the ins co sell it at auction and be done with it.
this!
pierre
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I could then either scrap it or sell parts from it. Or I could let the ins co sell it at auction and be done with it.
this!
pierre
LOL there are 2 choice there Pierre
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I would just step away, don't complicate the deal with the insurance co., especially if they've agreed to a full refund.
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I could then either scrap it or sell parts from it. Or I could let the ins co sell it at auction and be done with it.
this!
pierre
LOL there are 2 choice there Pierre
DUH, I obviously did not delete enough of the front part! ;D
Or I could let the ins co sell it at auction and be done with it.
this!
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Here is my take....for what it is worth
get the money from the insurance and buy new. You know I am going to say M&R. so buy a new one ( no problems involved and you can build a new house with the wood they give you from crating) go to Chicago and learn how to run it and maintenance on it. You will make more money off that from day one then trying to learn a used press and have the problems that can come with a used press. ie. look at where you are now. I know if you bought a new M&R you would have had a new one already there and they would deal with the shipping issue!
just my .0000002 cents
sam
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Here is my take....for what it is worth
get the money from the insurance and buy new. You know I am going to say M&R. so buy a new one ( no problems involved and you can build a new house with the wood they give you from crating) go to Chicago and learn how to run it and maintenance on it. You will make more money off that from day one then trying to learn a used press and have the problems that can come with a used press. ie. look at where you are now. I know if you bought a new M&R you would have had a new one already there and they would deal with the shipping issue!
just my .0000002 cents
sam
new, or like new. If you can find something that is under a year old, you should be able to save some money and still get financing on it.
pierre
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Riddle me this... On the valve assembly (Mac) of the m&r challenger 1, when these machines originally left the factory did they contain varistors anywhere in the wiring of the valves. I'd don't think they did but a friend says otherwise, so help me win a bet!!
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Riddle me this... On the valve assembly (Mac) of the m&r challenger 1, when these machines originally left the factory did they contain varistors anywhere in the wiring of the valves. I'd don't think they did but a friend says otherwise, so help me win a bet!!
they were standard but there were a few that got out without them. Later on the varistor was built into the coil by Mac. In a way you are both right!
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Riddle me this... On the valve assembly (Mac) of the m&r challenger 1, when these machines originally left the factory did they contain varistors anywhere in the wiring of the valves. I'd don't think they did but a friend says otherwise, so help me win a bet!!
they were standard but there were a few that got out without them. Later on the varistor was built into the coil by Mac. In a way you are both right!
both of you send the winnings to 244 now! ;D
pierre
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Thanks! Is there any sort of diagram available that indicates where the varistors go?
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Thanks! Is there any sort of diagram available that indicates where the varistors go?
yes. Contact mike Sonera in our service dept.