TSB
screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: TCT on June 25, 2013, 10:03:48 PM
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Had a customer come in today that we print for with a shirt someone else had printed(discharge) and they wanted to know if we could print that "soft"(no hand).
Now I feel confident enough in our discharge to offer it to customers, it has a soft hand, no hand after it is washed, the ink stays vibrant, ect. We have done quite a bit(probably close to half our printing now) of DC printing and haven't had complaints. With that said I admit improving or tweaking our technique hasn't been priority #1 for me, or really even on my radar.
Our DC has very little hand, but after feeling the sample that was brought in, ours does feel a bit stiff.... Is there a easy solution for this? We are using the CCI system, and 5-6% DC agent.
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I'm curious to know if yours is all discharge (Multi color) or is it just discharge underbase with plastisol on top?
Discharge with waterbase on top typically has no hand. Then again, I'm sure it also depends on what mesh your using with that also. For example, some use a very low mesh on solid areas intending to get deep saturation of the discarage. I'm guessing you just need to be in the mud range on mesh, like a 156. I hear of some people using 80-110 and even hit that twice. I'm not experience that much with seeing the printing of it but feel that low mesh can leave more hand than needed.
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It is just straight DC, 1 or 2 colors. We usually run the DC prints on a 110 or 156S.
The print they brought in felt like ours does after washing.
Almost wondering if we are using too much DC activator. I bet if there was someone in the forum named Tony they would know;) I am open to suggestions from people with names other than Tony also! :)
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we bumped our temp to 410 and also added more time in the dryer. It made a big difference. try those two and see what happens.
pierre
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pierre, how long is your dwell time in the oven?
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TCT that shirt your custy brought in could have been washed already giving it a nice soft feel
Darryl
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pierre, how long is your dwell time in the oven?
we go down to 10 on the speed dial. 25 for regular production . . .
pierre
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Percentage of activator will play a large part in hand. Also certain pigments will be stiffer than others. White being the worst.
For straight white, try cutting it with %20 base, %10 water or penetrant depending on ambient humidity, and upping your mesh count, which might require double stroking depending on detail. All about in the garment and not on it.
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When I first started DC printing last year, our Sericol rep brought in samples and they felt seriously rough, it was a bunch of liquid blue and the mountain stuff. I was concerned about hand on the rack as a lot of what we printed then and still do print is straight to retail. What I found is the shirt fabric makes a big difference. The hand we get on ring spun is quite soft for most prints. Makes sense if you think about it- if a shirt feels like sandpaper before printing it's still going to feel that way after.
All the rest regarding pigment and activator % is true as well.
In the end, focus on printing DC correctly first if the client needs super softness on the rack do a post launder.
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Ok here is what I got for answers here:
The shirts are 99% of the time ring spun cotton "fashion" T's.
I had thought that possibly the customer had laundered the shirt before they brought it in so I went to the store they bought it from. Same non-existent hand on the shirts for sale there.
I had thought about picking up a busted clothes dryer, that doesn't heat anymore to toss finished shirts in before picking. But that sounds like a total waste of time, labor and floor space.
I also bumped the dryer temp today, but that messes with the safety vests we print, and we print those suckers sporadically throughout the day almost daily. So I probably don't want to mess with the dryer too much.
Does the 5-6% activator seem high? Just wondering if that could be the culprit.
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Bump it down to 3% and see if you still get good results. Certain colors will be fine, others
not so much.
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Ok here is what I got for answers here:
The shirts are 99% of the time ring spun cotton "fashion" T's.
I had thought that possibly the customer had laundered the shirt before they brought it in so I went to the store they bought it from. Same non-existent hand on the shirts for sale there.
I had thought about picking up a busted clothes dryer, that doesn't heat anymore to toss finished shirts in before picking. But that sounds like a total waste of time, labor and floor space.
I also bumped the dryer temp today, but that messes with the safety vests we print, and we print those suckers sporadically throughout the day almost daily. So I probably don't want to mess with the dryer too much.
Does the 5-6% activator seem high? Just wondering if that could be the culprit.
I thought the shirts have to be washed before they go into sale or need at least to have a notice advising the customer to wash the shirts before wearing due to the discharge.
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I don't believe that there is significant formaldehyde left in a properly cured DC print but I have no way to confirm this right now. I read one snippet in an old article that said there is but the rest of my reading said no, there isn't. I would like to send a few samples to a lab, with unprinted control samples and find out for sure.
My understanding was that both the hand and the irritation risk comes from what activated DC turns into and leaves behind once cured- some kind of sulfur -not formaldehyde at that point. Further, my assumption is that there is already a level of formaldehyde and other chems in the fabric, as preservatives. It seems unlikely that millions of cotton shirts will just naturally make it across vast ocean voyages without getting moldy.
In the end post launder takes care of all of that. We don't sticker each shirt that way but we recommend that all shirts, printed with any method, be washed before wearing.
That retail shirt you are comparing too could well have been post laundered, all it really takes is a quick cold water rinse, maybe some mild soap.
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Ok here is what I got for answers here:
The shirts are 99% of the time ring spun cotton "fashion" T's.
I had thought that possibly the customer had laundered the shirt before they brought it in so I went to the store they bought it from. Same non-existent hand on the shirts for sale there.
I had thought about picking up a busted clothes dryer, that doesn't heat anymore to toss finished shirts in before picking. But that sounds like a total waste of time, labor and floor space.
I also bumped the dryer temp today, but that messes with the safety vests we print, and we print those suckers sporadically throughout the day almost daily. So I probably don't want to mess with the dryer too much.
Does the 5-6% activator seem high? Just wondering if that could be the culprit.
I thought the shirts have to be washed before they go into sale or need at least to have a notice advising the customer to wash the shirts before wearing due to the discharge.
To be honest all garments should be washed before being worn. There is more nasty stuff in the shirt than any of our inks. A certain brand years ago had more formaldehyde in their blanks than any discharge out there. My friend has the test results to prove it. I read an article in the NYTimes a year ago that the first car company to make a car without that "smell" will make billions as they can advertise they are formaldehyde and voc free unlike other cars. Makes sense. Whenever I rent a car on travels I roll all the windows down. That is the smell of death in my opinion!
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Glad to here I'm not too far off in my reasoning on this. Someone needs to publish some data dammit. SGIA, where you at with this?
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Chris, don't hold your breath on this one
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Unless you're in a new car. ;D
Always angries up my blood when I think about that crap... So we need an MSDS for masking tape but not shirts. Does that make sense?