TSB
screen printing => Newbie => Topic started by: thinkdesign on July 07, 2011, 11:40:29 PM
-
For those of you that utilize a dip tank for emulsion removal. How often do you have to change chemicals and how do you dispose of the old chemicals? Any comments appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Joel
-
about once every 6 months to 9 months. You can get some neutralizer from either easiway or franmar and dump it down the drain. The sludge at the bottom should be cured in the oven before disposal. It's usually a sheet of old emulsion and ink.
-
about once every 6 months to 9 months. You can get some neutralizer from either easiway or franmar and dump it down the drain. The sludge at the bottom should be cured in the oven before disposal. It's usually a sheet of old emulsion and ink.
yep
-
I think i went almost a year on my last one--youll know, when it starts to be a pain to remove with just the pressure washer and you end up scrubbing. I let the water filter thru an old screen to get the little stuff before it goes down the drain also.
-
I log the number of screens that go thru my tank.... and usually need to replace the solution at about 250 screens.
Since I never put an inked screen into my tank... the old solution is drain safe.
I have a small tank (13 gallons), the drain is a couple inches above the bottom.
I drain the tank down to the drain level. Then, I pour the heavier liquid into a bucket and let the water evaporate so the solids can be put in the trash. Most of the time the solids would fit into a tall coffee cup.
My fresh solution is 1.5 gallons of Easiway 500 and about 11.5 gallons of water.
I estimate the cost at about $.25/screen.
http://www.easiway.com/products/easisolv-500-stencil-remover-concentrate-mixed-125 (http://www.easiway.com/products/easisolv-500-stencil-remover-concentrate-mixed-125)
-
We've only been using ours for maybe 4-6 months or so but it's still going strong. We have the big, white polypropylene Blackline tank.
Franmar One Step but we remove ink before putting the screens in to strip the emulsion. I don't know why everyone else can use this stuff to remove both ink and emulsion but we sure as hell can't get away with that. Could be the phthalate-free thing.
I think the main thing is to pull the screens before the emulsion sloughs off and disperses in the tank. That and something to hang the screens up over the tank to drip back in- or use a squeegee to conserve solution. The more times you have to top it off with water, the weaker it gets.
-
Well....I just replaced mine after two days of putting it in. Over the 4th I got a leak and walked into see my floor covered with 75 gallons of blue crap. Great way to start the week!
But normally we get 3 months out of the stuff we use.
-
I just top off my tank with more Easiway Supra every other month. Haven't changed it yet. Almost two years but I am only part time.
-
We've only been using ours for maybe 4-6 months or so but it's still going strong. We have the big, white polypropylene Blackline tank.
Franmar One Step but we remove ink before putting the screens in to strip the emulsion. I don't know why everyone else can use this stuff to remove both ink and emulsion but we sure as hell can't get away with that. Could be the phthalate-free thing.
I think the main thing is to pull the screens before the emulsion sloughs off and disperses in the tank. That and something to hang the screens up over the tank to drip back in- or use a squeegee to conserve solution. The more times you have to top it off with water, the weaker it gets.
How are you hanging the screens over the tank?
-
I still haven't rigged up the hanging system yet, just using a squeegee for now. I think some rubber coated bike hooks will do the trick, just hook the corner of the roller frame.
-
I have had my easiway tank for about 8 months and I think its time to change. I wish I would have got the one with the drain attached.
-
Can you not easily add a tap a few inches above the bottom? Similar to what we add on buckets as beer brew tanks.
-
I am pretty sure you can add a tap. I will have to try that when I drain this thing.
The one thing I dont like about a dip tank is that it warps the wooden frames but I guess thats to be expected.
-
What a coincidence, I will be driving very close to Easiway on our anniversary trip in September. Hope I have room for a tank and a few gallons of chemicals. I'm sure the wife won't mind the stop.
-
I am pretty sure you can add a tap. I will have to try that when I drain this thing.
The one thing I dont like about a dip tank is that it warps the wooden frames but I guess thats to be expected.
I have two tanks with taps and they don't really help much. They are to low to add a bucket or anything under it.
pierre
-
I am pretty sure you can add a tap. I will have to try that when I drain this thing.
The one thing I dont like about a dip tank is that it warps the wooden frames but I guess thats to be expected.
I have two tanks with taps and they don't really help much. They are to low to add a bucket or anything under it.
pierre
ditto--i tried a hose on my spigot once and it just popped off--its not threaded and its only 2-3" off the ground so there isn't any use for it in my opinion unless you built this thing on wheels and have a floor drain. i end up just bucketing it out...i'd love to siphon but im not putting that in my mouth LOL. Bought a drill pump but it burnt up in no time with the particles that were going thru it.
-
about every 5-600 screens depending on how much ink you get off..i prefer the easi way products.. easy strip in the tank 2:1 with water. and then 701 or 901 as the last step. franmar has some great products also.
-
I use one of these fish tank cleaner things to pull the old chemical out of the tank. You attach it to the end of a standard garden hose...
http://www.petdiscounters.com/Ultimate-Aquarium-Vac--25-foot_p_12055.html (http://www.petdiscounters.com/Ultimate-Aquarium-Vac--25-foot_p_12055.html)
...you can also just get the main siphon attachment but you may need the silicon tubing or something similar to direct the waterflow to a drain.
http://www.petdiscounters.com/Ultimate-Super-Pump_p_12058.html (http://www.petdiscounters.com/Ultimate-Super-Pump_p_12058.html)
...both are available at local chain pet supply stores, like PetSmart etc.
-
I am pretty sure you can add a tap. I will have to try that when I drain this thing.
The one thing I dont like about a dip tank is that it warps the wooden frames but I guess thats to be expected.
I have two tanks with taps and they don't really help much. They are to low to add a bucket or anything under it.
pierre
ditto--i tried a hose on my spigot once and it just popped off--its not threaded and its only 2-3" off the ground so there isn't any use for it in my opinion unless you built this thing on wheels and have a floor drain. i end up just bucketing it out...i'd love to siphon but im not putting that in my mouth LOL. Bought a drill pump but it burnt up in no time with the particles that were going thru it.
I can see myself having all this gunk all over the floor trying to tip this over into a bucket. I will have to try the siphon thing from the fish tank place like the other poster suggested.
-
I was looking at my tank and thought I might try to take a pillowcase and line the tank with it. When the solution gets so bad that it needs changed I could pull the "sock" out and let it dry and cure it. Then just use my siphon pump and empty the tank.
-
I was looking at my tank and thought I might try to take a pillowcase and line the tank with it. When the solution gets so bad that it needs changed I could pull the "sock" out and let it dry and cure it. Then just use my siphon pump and empty the tank.
Thats a pretty good idea!
-
danggit, I am supposed to be the idea guy around here. I did finally make a shuttle flash for my press over the weekend.
-
not to be the downer guy but i think over time the chemical would eat up the pillowcase or it would rip due to inserting and removing screens in a production environment.. i think your idea is brilliant if you can find the right material..
-
i would go with something like a laundry bag. maybe you could also sew one from extra screen mesh
-
How about a paint strainer I dont know if they make them that large. I do know they make five gallon strainer bags
-
when i get alot of floaty particles, i do pantyhose on a coat hanger (makeshirt pool skimmer lol)
-
We are getting well over a thousand screens out of our dip tank chem right now. I am using easiway supra. I've used so many dip tank chems that I can't remember them all. The last was a saati product and it worked really well in the beginning but only for a month or so before we had to do a major recharge. I've used an ICC product, several different easiway's, and numerous suppliers calling me wanting me to try their product. I remember Franmars product as being really good, on par with the easiway supra. I think it was called "one step"?
-
I remember Franmars product as being really good, on par with the easiway supra. I think it was called "one step"?
yep--thats what we use.
-
CCI Gemzyne.
I gave up long ago on a "put dirty screen in tank pull out clean" solution.
Still have to remove ink no matter what.
Gemzyne is $40 for a 27 gallon tank plus some to refresh. Lasts forever.
-
CCI Gemzyne.
I gave up long ago on a "put dirty screen in tank pull out clean" solution.
Still have to remove ink no matter what.
Gemzyne is $40 for a 27 gallon tank plus some to refresh. Lasts forever.
I've never been able to throw a screen straight into the "one step"either. You either loosen up the ink before hand with ink cleaner or you have to do it with the dehazer. Far as I can tell there's no such thing as a combination ink/emulsion remover. Franmar's works great as an emulsion stripper but that gem zyne sounds like a better deal.
-
I know your not sopposed to but I sometimes leave my screens in overnight (when I'm lazy). The ink hardens up into an almost powder form when left in the dip tank long enough making it so I can blow out the screen from the bottom (print side) and 90% of the ink will get blown out.
Screen Systems 2900 Clean & Strip
2 or 3 months now doing it the wrong way (overnight soaks) and still works great.
BTW I opted out of buying one of those fancy expensive tanks and use a 55 gallon plastic drum , works just fine and picked it up for free. Fits 6 manual newman frames.
-
CCI Gemzyne.
I gave up long ago on a "put dirty screen in tank pull out clean" solution.
Still have to remove ink no matter what.
Gemzyne is $40 for a 27 gallon tank plus some to refresh. Lasts forever.
I've never been able to throw a screen straight into the "one step"either. You either loosen up the ink before hand with ink cleaner or you have to do it with the dehazer. Far as I can tell there's no such thing as a combination ink/emulsion remover. Franmar's works great as an emulsion stripper but that gem zyne sounds like a better deal.
'zactly.
-
Can't set the tanks on top of something like a concrete paver (or 2) to raise the height. Probably even be easier to drop/pull the screens.
-
Casters work great.
(http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad253/Z00_CITY/Photoon2011-08-24at1337.jpg)
-
Tks,
I just bought one and had not filled it yet. I can make one of those things easy
-
I'd one-up those in the pic and frame out the tank so it doesn't bulge.
-
I'd one-up those in the pic and frame out the tank so it doesn't bulge.
Mine is from easiway. Does it bulge? If so, high high? Low? Middle? Where? You got me thinking.
-
They all bulge, at least Easiway and Blackline do. The Easiway lid still fits on but the Blackline one has some gaps which leads to evaporation. I'd frame 'em up as the bulging is annoying.
-
Perhaps those with the right shipping equipment could easily reinforce them with that yellow plastic banding stuff.
-
CCI Gemzyne.
I gave up long ago on a "put dirty screen in tank pull out clean" solution.
Still have to remove ink no matter what.
Gemzyne is $40 for a 27 gallon tank plus some to refresh. Lasts forever.
I've never been able to throw a screen straight into the "one step"either. You either loosen up the ink before hand with ink cleaner or you have to do it with the dehazer. Far as I can tell there's no such thing as a combination ink/emulsion remover. Franmar's works great as an emulsion stripper but that gem zyne sounds like a better deal.
Sounds like you contaminated the one step clear. I can tell you it works every day for us. You need to card off the excess ink of course, put it in the tank and hit it with the pressure washer.
The only time i need to use ink remover is when their is ink in the open area of the mesh. Like some one flooded the screen but didn't finish the print stroke.
I know once you get another chemical in the tank (even another franmar product) you contaminate the tank and it doesn't work anymore.
So we make sure not to use ink remover on the screens before putting them into the tank. If we have to we rinse the screen with water before putting into the tank.
Check out my video here.
http://www.youtube.com/jamiemcparland#p/u/7/ggYBDrisFzc (http://www.youtube.com/jamiemcparland#p/u/7/ggYBDrisFzc)
-
I use some ratcheting straps and some plywood to wrap around mine. I think I might do the caster thing next time I change it out.
-
I had checked yer video before we went that way Jamie and it's actually part of what convinced me to try it out.
It's possible but not likely it's contaminated, we made sure to never use another product on the screen prior and, if we did for a color change on press or something, we rinsed the screen well before dunking them. It never got the ink all the way off from the get go. We use the ink spatulas to get the majority of the ink out, pull tape and wipe with a dry rag before throwing them in. There's very little ink on there. I did notice the ink seemed to be most tenacious where the reg marks and image was though.
It does still strip the emulsion down just fine and has been doing so for what feels like a really long time now. Just doesn't seem worth it if I can use a straight sodium periodate concentrate since all it does is strip emulsion. EB concurred with me on this earlier too- maybe we're just dumbasses and doing something wrong or perhaps it's the phthalate-free ink?
That's a purdy good idear MK, ours our so far gone that we'd have to use ratchet straps at this point. I'll try it out this winter when I put the warming wraps on the tanks.
-
I had checked yer video before we went that way Jamie and it's actually part of what convinced me to try it out.
It's possible but not likely it's contaminated, we made sure to never use another product on the screen prior and, if we did for a color change on press or something, we rinsed the screen well before dunking them. It never got the ink all the way off from the get go. We use the ink spatulas to get the majority of the ink out, pull tape and wipe with a dry rag before throwing them in. There's very little ink on there. I did notice the ink seemed to be most tenacious where the reg marks and image was though.
It does still strip the emulsion down just fine and has been doing so for what feels like a really long time now. Just doesn't seem worth it if I can use a straight sodium periodate concentrate since all it does is strip emulsion. EB concurred with me on this earlier too- maybe we're just dumbasses and doing something wrong or perhaps it's the phthalate-free ink?
That's a purdy good idear MK, ours our so far gone that we'd have to use ratchet straps at this point. I'll try it out this winter when I put the warming wraps on the tanks.
Oh crap.. now i feel bad you tried it and it didn't work. That stuffs not cheap. I'm sorry, man i swear it works great for us. Just like in the video. I will say that one time we got a brand new 5 gallon and it was bunk. Just didn't work. I called and complained and they shipped out a replacement, maybe give them a call and ask WTF?
It's called one step clear for a reason... So if it's not working the way it's suppose to call 'em up! Good Luck man!
-
Yeah way to go Jamie you ruined my life. ::)
But really, your vid convinced me that it would strip Aquasol, which it does for me everyday in here.
When you got a bad bucket of the Franmar One Step, did it still strip emulsion? Because ours strips emulsion very well, it just doesn't remove ink from anywhere the emulsion wasn't.
-
Yeah way to go Jamie you ruined my life. ::)
But really, your vid convinced me that it would strip Aquasol, which it does for me everyday in here.
When you got a bad bucket of the Franmar One Step, did it still strip emulsion? Because ours strips emulsion very well, it just doesn't remove ink from anywhere the emulsion wasn't.
haha.. ok. I just hate to give bad advice, and I'm so happy with ours that's why i wanted to share. Just bums me out when crap doesn't work out. I know this stuff costs money ya know?
Yep the bad bucket still did the emulsion no problem. Just none of the ink. Also the area under where the ink was the emulsion was hard to get off.
I remember talking to someone and they were like "It's not suppose to get the ink off" but that's bullshit! It's called one step clear for a reason. If i just wanted the emulsion off buying a $400 dip tank would not really be worth it.
This is from the franmar website "One-Step Clear™ that removes both ink and emulsion safely and affordably in one, quick step. "
http://franmar.com/textile/techniques-demonstrations.html (http://franmar.com/textile/techniques-demonstrations.html)
If it's not cleaning the ink off call them up and complain. That stuff is to expensive not to have it work!