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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Mark @ Hurricane Printing on July 28, 2013, 01:39:29 PM
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I was just wondering if anyone keeps track of how many screens; shirts; etc products last you.
For example I can say that one quart of emulsion I can coat 19 screens....coating 23 x 31 screens....doing one pass on each side.
Next I am going to keep track on how much a can of adhesive lasts me as far as shirt count and same for a can of screen opener...granted the number will vary but I'm sure you can get a general idea of how many shirts you can print before you need to replace.....same for rolls of tape which I think would be an easy one..just measure all 4 lengths of the screens and dived the tape roll length by the screen measurements and you can figure out how long a roll of tape lasts.
all of these calculated cost will help me refigure my price structure..I THINK im a little to high with my prices....especially for someone with ZERO over head.
Just wondering if anyone else has such numbers calculated already.
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all of these calculated cost will help me refigure my price structure..I THINK im a little to high with my prices....especially for someone with ZERO over head.
If your prices are affecting how many jobs you land, then yes. Otherwise, there is never such thing as too much income. (and too little overhead)
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Ask Kitson, Mindseye he can tell you down to the penny what everything cost in his shop.
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I was just wondering if anyone keeps track of how many screens; shirts; etc products last you.
For example I can say that one quart of emulsion I can coat 19 screens....coating 23 x 31 screens....doing one pass on each side.
Next I am going to keep track on how much a can of adhesive lasts me as far as shirt count and same for a can of screen opener...granted the number will vary but I'm sure you can get a general idea of how many shirts you can print before you need to replace.....same for rolls of tape which I think would be an easy one..just measure all 4 lengths of the screens and dived the tape roll length by the screen measurements and you can figure out how long a roll of tape lasts.
all of these calculated cost will help me refigure my price structure..I THINK im a little to high with my prices....especially for someone with ZERO over head.
Just wondering if anyone else has such numbers calculated already.
Here's my guess-estimate on supplies cost per screen:
Reclaim chem's .25
Emulsion .75
Film positive .75
tape .10
tack .10
screen wash .25
mesh .80 (based on static frames with about a 30 cycle lifespan)
So, three dollars (material) per screen
Even with no overhead... I think you could easily add:
Three dollars per screen to keep up with pre-press equipment costs (printer, exposure unit, wash-out station).
Three dollars per screen in equipment depreciation (press, dryer, etc).
One dollar per screen in business expense (phone, website, etc).
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all of these calculated cost will help me refigure my price structure..I THINK im a little to high with my prices....especially for someone with ZERO over head.
Okay, this is always a red flag for me, generally heard from "garage" printers (though home based businesses, like mine, in fact, are not limited to garages. Hell, I don't even have a garage and if I did, I'd use it for vehicles!)
No overhead? So, your property and operation incurs no utility costs, no insurance, no trash, no mortgage or rent or upkeep?
I work on my residential property, and my operation is responsible for at least 25% of all of those expenses as well as some specific to the business.
This is both figured into my shop hourly costs as well as, of course, listed as expenses on my taxes.
For example I can say that one quart of emulsion I can coat 19 screens....coating 23 x 31 screens....doing one pass on each side.
This is also skating on thin ice. Although some meshes may give an acceptable EOM with a 1/1 coating, most meshes that we use will not (assuming plastisol use)
I coat the print side to see a glistening on the squeegee side, usually at least two coats on 160 and higher. The point is, there is a visual reference.
But a lot of discussion on this facet belongs in the screen making section.
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We track everything. Purchases of in, chemicals, mesh, emulsion, etc. Labor. Impressions, Set ups, set up/tear down times, run times, Screens made/reclaimed. And on and on. If we use it, we track it. Fixed costs are, well, fixed costs. I can't imagine anything we can't figure a cost on.
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all of these calculated cost will help me refigure my price structure..I THINK im a little to high with my prices....especially for someone with ZERO over head.
Okay, this is always a red flag for me, generally heard from "garage" printers (though home based businesses, like mine, in fact, are not limited to garages. Hell, I don't even have a garage and if I did, I'd use it for vehicles!)
No overhead? So, your property and operation incurs no utility costs, no insurance, no trash, no mortgage or rent or upkeep?
I work on my residential property, and my operation is responsible for at least 25% of all of those expenses as well as some specific to the business.
This is both figured into my shop hourly costs as well as, of course, listed as expenses on my taxes.
Yup. I went from garage to a warehouse and back to the garage. From the get-go I estimated expenses for a commercial building, including lease, insurance, and utilities, and factored these into my prices. When I actually moved to the warehouse, I made no changes to pricing. Likewise when I moved back. And, like yourself, Andy, I calculate my utilities for tax purposes based on the percentage of my home office and garage taken up by the business.
Starting out in a garage and basing pricing on no overhead will bite you in the ass if you ever expand into a commercial space.
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We track everything. Purchases of in, chemicals, mesh, emulsion, etc. Labor. Impressions, Set ups, set up/tear down times, run times, Screens made/reclaimed. And on and on. If we use it, we track it. Fixed costs are, well, fixed costs. I can't imagine anything we can't figure a cost on.
i have no employee's and no rent....the only thing my biz would effect in my life is electricity and water....and being my business isnt busting at the seams i have noticed very little effect on those 2 bills. Even if I was busting at the seams all that would be effected is electricity and water. I dont include all other bills because id would be paying that anyway...its my house...i have to pay the house note no matter what.
I HAD a shop last years and was paying $775 a month plus electricty (water was free) and mandatory insurance...i made my rent twice in the entire year.... i dont have the biz to support a shop plus make money...wish i did...but i dont.
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Mark, any part of your home that is now used for business is not available as a home, and should be figured as such.
Take it to the extreme, and figure that some day, you may need your entire house for business, and sleep in your car or rent another place.
Would your business still "no overhead"? It's the same place.
Why do you make the distinction when it is merely part of the home?
What about a nice commercially zoned loft in which you also sleep? Would that be free lodging, or no overhead for your shop?
You have to look at this in a business-like way, or you are starting on a slippery slope.
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Mark
how the hell do you run a business without knowing what it costs you? If you don't know how do you know your prices are too high?
this is simple business and economics 101.
time to start figuring out why you are failing.
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Mark
how the hell do you run a business without knowing what it costs you? If you don't know how do you know your prices are too high?
this is simple business and economics 101.
time to start figuring out why you are failing.
I am using the cost matrix of the guy that mentored me. When I got back up and running we worked a deal where I would move my press into his existing commercial location shop..he wanted to expand to two presses and I needed a place to set up...so I set up there and the trade off was he used my press and I had access to his shop with no rent to pay.
He shared his price structure with me and thats what I have been using. When he closed his shop and I opened up my own shop and carried over his price matrix with me. Once I closed my shop and set up in my garage I am kept the same structure.
So I am using a calculated price matrix for my area which is right down the middle and comparable to other businesses that run manuals.
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Mark, any part of your home that is now used for business is not available as a home, and should be figured as such.
Take it to the extreme, and figure that some day, you may need your entire house for business, and sleep in your car or rent another place.
Would your business still "no overhead"? It's the same place.
Why do you make the distinction when it is merely part of the home?
What about a nice commercially zoned loft in which you also sleep? Would that be free lodging, or no overhead for your shop?
You have to look at this in a business-like way, or you are starting on a slippery slope.
I have claimed my 3rd bedroom as my office for my biz....this year will be the first year I claim my one car garage.
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Save a ton of money and start using water based pallet adhesive and a can of Screen opener should only be used as a last resort to open a stubborn stencil. A can of that crap lasts us a year or more.
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I have claimed my 3rd bedroom as my office for my biz....this year will be the first year I claim my one car garage.
There you have it. If nothing else, the same percentage of your home that is used for business, is the percentage of home-related expenses that should be viewed as part of your overhead.
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Mark
how the hell do you run a business without knowing what it costs you? If you don't know how do you know your prices are too high?
this is simple business and economics 101.
time to start figuring out why you are failing.
I am using the cost matrix of the guy that mentored me. When I got back up and running we worked a deal where I would move my press into his existing commercial location shop..he wanted to expand to two presses and I needed a place to set up...so I set up there and the trade off was he used my press and I had access to his shop with no rent to pay.
He shared his price structure with me and thats what I have been using. When he closed his shop and I opened up my own shop and carried over his price matrix with me. Once I closed my shop and set up in my garage I am kept the same structure.
So I am using a calculated price matrix for my area which is right down the middle and comparable to other businesses that run manuals.
Once again, I agree with Sam but not with his delivery. But seriously... don't you see a theme going on here?
He used his prices, closed shop. You used his prices, closed shop.
I also agree with Frog and tpitman... you have to at least "pretend" you have or will have some over head even if you don't really have much. You are leaving yourself no room for growth if you don't (tpitman, pretty much summed it up).
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Mark
how the hell do you run a business without knowing what it costs you? If you don't know how do you know your prices are too high?
this is simple business and economics 101.
time to start figuring out why you are failing.
I am using the cost matrix of the guy that mentored me. When I got back up and running we worked a deal where I would move my press into his existing commercial location shop..he wanted to expand to two presses and I needed a place to set up...so I set up there and the trade off was he used my press and I had access to his shop with no rent to pay.
He shared his price structure with me and thats what I have been using. When he closed his shop and I opened up my own shop and carried over his price matrix with me. Once I closed my shop and set up in my garage I am kept the same structure.
So I am using a calculated price matrix for my area which is right down the middle and comparable to other businesses that run manuals.
Once again, I agree with Sam but not with his delivery. But seriously... don't you see a theme going on here?
He used his prices, closed shop. You used his prices, closed shop.
I also agree with Frog and tpitman... you have to at least "pretend" you have or will have some over head even if you don't really have much. You are leaving yourself no room for growth if you don't (tpitman, pretty much summed it up).
OK..this is getting outta control hahah....here is the deal...the guy that mentored me has been a screen printer and graphic artist for over 15 yrs...its how he makes his living..he started as graphic design for screne printers then went out on his own screen printing....when I eventually met up with him, he moved into a bigger shop because he had so much biz and wanted to expand.....but the expansion brought on more employees which there are not many reliable printers to pick from in our area and he couldn't land additional acceptable workers and he was just "done" with the biz so he decided to shut down and sell all his stuff and contract everything out because his clientele was HUGE and still is.....so he didnt renew his lease at the end of 2011...he didnt give up his clientel..he was just done with pulling a squeege...I did not have my garage available and I needed a place to put my equipment so I decided to go off on my own and rent a hole in the wall place....BUT i went into it knowing I did not have the clientele just yet to support a shop but i was ambitious..I had some SOME regualr biz...but wasnt busting at the seams..PLUS I have a regular full time job....so all of 2012 I had my own shop and just could not dedicate as much time as i wanted to my biz....then hurricane issac hit (7 yrs to the day of hurricane katrina which wiped me out completely)..and the hurricane caused a massive hole in my roof which then flooded my living room....so here i was AGAIN with hurricane damage..and AGAIN everything put on hold....so I had to deal with that and put my biz on hold until my home was fixed....so from september 2012 to dec 2012 I had one job which i didn't even want but did it as a favor..i just had no time for it......at end of December 2012 i closed my shop because when i was rebuilding from issac damage i finished wiring my garage to accept my equipment (which was the intent all along after katrina but i couldnt finish it because the garage became storage for all my stuff)....
so to comment on your comment....i am using a pricing matrix that is proven and the guy ran a shop with employees for YEARS..plus supported his family.....so the price list im using is acceptable....i guess i was just wondering how much of what chemicals and material make up the pricing....i never explored it before becuase i didnt have to..i was handed a price matrix with the explanation "this is what i use and been using..it covers all your cost..etc..etc..etc"
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I understand... don't get me wrong, I'm only a tiny bit a head of that thinking.
Between looking at other price lists and ROUGH calculations on over head is where I get my pricing matrix from. It certainly needs to be gone over with a fine tooth comb and this thread has inspired me to annoy my printer with more logs to keep. :)
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Mark
so is this a business or a hobby? if you work a full time job is this "going" to be your full time job soon? or what?
People make fun of me ( Gilligan ) because I get my pricing down to scotch tape. but I know what EVERYTHING in my shop is costing me.
that is the point. just because he matrix worked for him does not mean it will work for you. And do you know if he was really supporting his family? did his wife work and he had a business that never made money? there is a lot of unknowns out there and you have to know EVERYTHING to run your business and make money
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Mark
so is this a business or a hobby? if you work a full time job is this "going" to be your full time job soon? or what?
People make fun of me ( Gilligan ) because I get my pricing down to scotch tape. but I know what EVERYTHING in my shop is costing me.
that is the point. just because he matrix worked for him does not mean it will work for you. And do you know if he was really supporting his family? did his wife work and he had a business that never made money? there is a lot of unknowns out there and you have to know EVERYTHING to run your business and make money
His wife did not work. He was the sole provider for his family. She did sit up at the front desk for him from time to time to free him up to print in the back but did not do it consistently. He explained to me that his pricing was pretty much "down the middle" of printers of our area...I never questioned it because like I said, this is what he does for a living..and still does.
To your first question, its a business, albeit, a small one, but is a business. It NEVER started out as a hobby...I just was always intrigued and i always kept it in the back of my mind that one day i will get into it. An opportunity came up in 2004 to buy some equipment and i jumped on it knowing ZILTCH!!!...self taught, t and asked a lot of questions....then katrina hit. I would love to make it a bigger business and I am trying..i have no wife or kids so i have time to dedicate to it...but when you have to rebuild a house..plus work....plus deal with general everyday hurdles of life it just eats into my time to dedicate to it...im dying ot have more biz...but i cant say im out pounding the pavement with it right now.
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Come on, Sam. A LOT of people besides Gilligan make fun of you, and for all kinds of reasons!!! ;D
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at least I don't live in IOWA..ahhahaha..yeah Dave I know....
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Wait a minute...Dave lives there? I always just figured he commuted to work there!
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Dave's not here man.
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Roumour has it that he visits Charleston on a semi-regular basis but I think it's justa rumour :)
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mark@hurricane- when you get some time, read through this link.
http://www.smrsoftware.com/pricing_intro.php (http://www.smrsoftware.com/pricing_intro.php)
The concept above has been said many different ways and the pamphlet "Pricing for Profits" is also a great read on this subject. Both articles are a little dated of course but the fundamentals are the same. If you are only working as an embellisher, i.e., you don't have direct retail sales of pre-printed product or other "arms" of your co. that are vastly different from screen printing, it really can be as simple as this.
Others are correct, you need to price for the size you are going to be not the size you are now. Trust us, it'll save a lot of headaches and heartburn to do this now. If you feel the urge to go lower with your current super low overhead situation go for it in the form of a one time discount, not a permanent change to pricing.
On the other side of the coin, pricing does need to be somewhat dictated by your region as well as the quality you put out but this is more in the "fine tuning" side of pricing rather than the core basis of it.
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I'd also suggest looking at some of Greg Kitson's writing. Go to Mind's Eye Graphics and you should find a number of helpful articles. A very wise man, indeed.
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I'd also suggest looking at some of Greg Kitson's writing. Go to Mind's Eye Graphics and you should find a number of helpful articles. A very wise man, indeed.
Oh, a wise guy, eh?
(http://www.empireonline.com/images/uploaded/three-stooges-curly.jpg)