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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: alan802 on August 13, 2013, 11:20:16 AM
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Look at what I'm dealing with. This is insane, pathetic and you have to try to do this type of damage to a screen. I've found 4 so far with those "teeth" marks from a tape dispenser. I'm going to review the cameras and see if I can see someone trying to damage a screen. One might have this done but more than that and I'm convinced someone is doing this on purpose. If I see it done on the tapes then we will be one less employee by the end of the day. I'm furious and I just gave the guys the opportunity to come clean and all 3 pointed fingers at the other 2.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4291_zps08a65727.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4291_zps08a65727.jpg.html)
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4290_zps193c2c08.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4290_zps193c2c08.jpg.html)
This is beyond mishandling the screens, and I put in about 20 minutes per screen to make sure we have the very best tools for the job and this is what I've got to deal with, I don't think so. I put in a lot of extra work so we have properly tensioned screens in production but this crap is driving me crazy. I have tried several different ways of handling the screen problems and maybe I'll just throw 100 low tension statics out there and let them struggle and then maybe they'd have more appreciation for properly tensioned screens...but I doubt that would work either. I've been nice, I've screamed, I've thrown things, I've dog-cussed the hell out of everyone, I've been an A-hole, I've been supportive and nice about it, and it just seems like it just gets worse. I'm writing up employee warning reports against all three of them and have them sign them, wonder how that is going to turn out?
And then I found a shirt we printed last week in the bottom of the dryer bin that wasn't put into the box so one of our customers is short one shirt and nobody seems all that concerned when I showed it to them. Guess I'll do another write-up for that and watch the finger pointing that comes from that. Not a good start to the week here. I'm about to go on the warpath. I've tried to set the procedures and trust them to do them right but they clearly are not so that means I will be in their business all day, every day until I can trust them to do things right without me in their faces.
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How does a tape gun get anywhere near a screen in the first place?
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Simple fix, but the "rank & file" won't like it....Take away their dispensers! I have always just picked up a roll, peeled out the tape next to the frame (To get the length right), bite a nick in the corner of the tape, and tear it off...Unless they decide to chew on the mesh, that should stop it.
(On the plus side, It should be easy on camera, to see press ops bent over and gnawing on the screens!) LOL! Deep, cleansing breaths man!
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How does a tape gun get anywhere near a screen in the first place?
It's the clear scotch tape dispenser that we use to tape the film to the screens. It's amazing to think someone has managed to slam a screen down on top of that dispenser. It does sit right next to the film positioning unit but still shouldn't ever come into contact with a screen.
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My tape dispenser is mounted to the wall with double stick tape on the back of it... might work for you
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How does a tape gun get anywhere near a screen in the first place?
It's the clear scotch tape dispenser that we use to tape the film to the screens. It's amazing to think someone has managed to slam a screen down on top of that dispenser. It does sit right next to the film positioning unit but still shouldn't ever come into contact with a screen.
Gotya, I thought you meant a packing tape gun. But damn how they can slam a screen onto a scotch tape dispenser is uncalled for as well.
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And nobodies going to mention that if ya had a CTS this would have NEVER HAPPENED!!!!!1
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I feel your pain Alan... The people here just do not seem to understand how fragile these screens can be and most of the time it is sheer laziness. Instead of putting a screen in a rack, they lay it upright and it slides down. Or being careless when loading ink into the screen. I have fired one person for misuse of screens and to be honest everyone else took notice for a month but old habits started creeping back in. It is a constant battle for us to remind them to take care of the screens.
Greg Kitson gave me tip one time and he makes his employees sign the frame after it rips. It is a good idea but if they are not admitting to the crime you will never have anyone to sign the frame.
Another idea I had and started doing was keeping a tally with a sheet posted on the production floor. I used an excel spreadsheet and in one column had reasons a screen can rip like hit a zipper while printing, ripped during reclaim. or imperfection in floodbar and the next column an empty box where someone can walk over and put a hash mark there. It seems anonymous but I am sure you can figure out who is making the tallies.
Good luck...
Mark
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That looks intentional man if not there is an employee who could care less. Sorry dude that blows
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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I never yell at anyone about mesh breakage here but I do layout the costs and labor involved as well as the value of a work hardened screen. When breakage happens everyone does this, every time and we go over it together:
- What caused the break?
- How can we prevent similar breakage?
- Make any necessary changes and make sure we are all up to speed.
9/10 times breakage occurs in the image area simply from normal wear and tear. Everyone needs to respect it though, it's really important. That sucks what yer dealing with, I wouldn't tolerate it but I would be careful about generating a fear culture in the shop at the same time.
It sounds like you have some overall crew issues though. Everyone in the shop should be concerned about forgetting pcs in an order.
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Very rarely will I get a busted screen that I can't find where it happened and then decide what caused it, but there are a few that I know were caused by something falling into the screen or in the ink and it wears a hole, but the vast majority of our screen busts are like the ones I showed. We have to be very careful with our flood bars since we use a hard fill stroke but we keep sanding sponges around for that and they are very well kept. One day I did throw one across the shop and my printer walked out. I think I overreacted but so did he, I was mad because I saw him bust it by dropping it down on the table while taping it, a 330/30 by the way. It had been the 4th 330 to bust in a week (shurloc EZ panels @ $30+/per panel) and we were busting 3-5 screens a week easily for a month straight when I finally blew up.
I've been kicking around the idea of numbering each screen in the inventory and keeping a spreadsheet of the mesh count, date stretched, retensions, tension, brand/series/model, date busted and a few other stats but I have been waiting till I get all my empty roller frames meshed up. No reason I can't do it now though I've just been putting it off and thought I had a legit excuse, I don't.
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hey not to sound like an assh*le..but really breaking 3-5 a week for a month before you did anything. are you running this shop or them?
I view this as theft. I would have someone(s) gone real quick...if they do not respect the equipment they make a living with do you expect them to respect the customers shirts and give them the best quality possible?
This sucks but dude...man up and do something NOW! not in a month
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Ill go ahead and comment so I can see the incoming LOLZ.
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Alan I would have to toss my own ass out the shop I had tension up some rollers and they were busting like crazy, just the slight touch the wrong way and zip!!! Being careful is key 30 bucks adds up quick.
Darryl
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hey not to sound like an assh*le..but really breaking 3-5 a week for a month before you did anything. are you running this shop or them?
I view this as theft. I would have someone(s) gone real quick...if they do not respect the equipment they make a living with do you expect them to respect the customers shirts and give them the best quality possible?
This sucks but dude...man up and do something NOW! not in a month
I'll say that that's not an a-hole approach to my situation and I'll comment on why there were 16 screens busted in under 5 weeks. It was literally like chasing a ghost. It's not like I sat on my hands that entire time just watching screens bust. I did things the first 4-5 screens that were busted and like I said, chasing a ghost. You know there is a problem, you know why they are busting for the most part, and you have a 33.3% chance of getting the right guy on any given screen, but then it's most likely that all 3 of them are busting the screens with 1 of them being the biggest offender most likely. I believe I commented on this forum several times during that period and trust me, things were done about it that's why it has slowed down considerably since then, but yeah, I wish something would have stopped the rest of them from busting.
I'm sure many of you will attest to running a shop with multiple employees, the amount of "throwing under the bus" and finger pointing that goes on with my guys is comical. I spent hours looking at the video to see If I could see someone busting a screen because if I did see, they would have been gone. I did go through 5 screen techs in the last 10 months and still no real solution has been found yet they aren't busting as many. But I've found it really hard to fire someone when I can't find actual proof that they are the ones responsible for busting the screens. I have a slight idea of who did those two screens above and that's my problem, a slight idea. I'm not going to get rid of one of my guys on a hunch, and although my crew isn't perfect, this is my biggest complaint and it's a big one because I agree with most of you that it's blatant destruction of company property, or another way to look at it like Sam said, theft.
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I keep it simple. Lie to me and I found out and your gone. If something gets F'd up fess up. Sent a new guy home today who thought I was kidding. I asked him to clean out a screen for me. When I asked him if it was done he said oh yeah I did that. Walked out to the rack and guess what. Never touched it. Sent him home on the spot to think about it. We will see how we works out tomorrow. This is a seasoned guy too. 10 years in the biz. Might be why he was out of work to begin with.
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If people are hiding it from you, that's not a quality employee. That's all I know. I don't care what else they bring to the table, lying is lying.
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I think that sending someone home when they're really effing up bad is the best thing to do for everyone. Gives them time to think about, pulls them out of the situation, gives you time to cool off if needed and it sends a strong message- this kind of behavior doesn't belong in this print shop. Plus, half the time it's just a bad day/hangover day for someone and it leads to goof ups which get escalated into way more than they should be.
Your problem Alan is you probably don't want to (or more like can't) send your whole crew home when they all start narcing each other out. I've never had anyone in here who liked to point fingers at others when they erred...at least no one for too long.
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Might be exactly what you have to do--make sure you're ahead of schedule far enough to send everyone home if they continue to be full of it.
Shirt thing would piss me the hell off. Almost came unglued yesterday--front print is already broken down, counting in the back--where's the 2XL? Wasn't there when he COUNTED THEM IN. Why are we running this if we're short shirts? Holy crap... Talk about not being able to put two and two together.
We're talking about counting TO ONE.
It might not fix your problem to hear it, but you're surely not alone...
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When I was a manager for a wireless video company and things broke, failed or were not right I would address it in The morning meeting and ask for input as to why things are screwed up then i would say show me, if they could not offer an improvement or change or show me a defect then it was a training or people issue. If its bad screen mesh document it for me, if its a sloppy area and things are in the way, change it, if there is a reason other then gorilla hands show me and then correct it. It could be you just need to move some things around lessen the chance of damage less steps walked equals time saved. If no one can give you a reason and the shop is set up good send them all home half day unpaid or give the option to improve the way things are done. If they say nothing needs improved,,,,have a good one see ya tomorrow. No need to go crazy they need to fix the issue or they need to pause without pay. I also am a strong believer in open team meetings. First 15-20 minutes of the day go over what's being worked on, any issues and then give each member an opportunity to speak. One rule, say whatever you want in the meeting but be respectful in your delivery. It helps head off problems early. If you don't do it already I would highly suggest it.
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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Alan sorry about your woes but I can say is holy s!@#, you have no idea how good you have it.
I thought the other guy we had doing screens was bad. The new guy....well I can't understand how he got the job.
The screens I'm handed for my press are mostly:
Filthy - ink all over the frame. Yes, the ones that were JUST COATED AND BURNED.
You can see spots of stray ink UNDER the emulsion.
Pinholes up the yazoo.
Fish eyes.
Streaks.
Ghosts.
Abrasion.
Holes. Holes everywhere. In MOST of the screens. I counted about twelve holes in one screen. (from 1/16" to about 1/2")
Missing/pinched detail.
Images burned flipped over.
Images burned in the wrong place.
Opposite colors ganged together, which means I have to wash them all when going from a front to back print.
And worst of all....LOW tension. (all statics) Maybe 12-15 newtons TOPS on the best screens in the shop. All the rest are saggy garbage. They won't buy new screens either.
And there is not a damn thing I can do about it. I went from having my own shop with meticulously maintained Newman M3's to a shop filled with pure amateur hour disgrace. Everything I say (and the other press operator says) falls on deaf ears. They won't fire the terrible screen guy and they won't train him correctly. (and I think he doesn't give a flyin f!@# anyway) I've seen him have to re-burn screens for almost every job. One 6 color job took 14 screens to get it right.
But hey....health insurance.
*sigh*
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I have sent guys home before but it's been a rare occurrence, and I do think that's a great way to get a point across. And it does suck to get lied to and that's whats happening. I have been saving all the misprints (those have been on the rise lately) and keep track of all the mistakes in my notebook and we are going to start having meetings in the morning, I'm thinking once a week to start off and see how that goes. I've got one guy, my printer, who is above average but he thinks he knows more than everybody else in the shop and he also thinks he knows how to handle a screen so none of the stuff that I say applies to him is how he thinks. Then I've got two dingleberries that know what they need to do but they're just young and dumb. They are eager to learn most of the time and they don't get along with my printer very well which nobody really does because he's such a red ass most of the time. I'll admit I've been doing a lot of other things than hovering over them and the mistakes and problems are showing up. I just need to spend more time in production, we do an awful lot for just 3 guys, me and an artist so spending more time out there will help some. But the way things are in the other building and what I've been trying to do to help others out has interfered with screen printing production. I can't give my printer an authority, he will abuse it and make everyone miserable, and the other 2 wouldn't have my printer's respect so it would be a waste of time to get someone to watch over things when I'm not back there. We're planning on moving my office to the engraving room and putting in a few windows so I will always be able to see what's going on in production. Right now when I'm at my desk doing something I can't see production so that's going to change in a couple of weeks and I think that will help some, but who knows how much.
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Alan, I think the meetings would help..Maybe do one on monday to start the week and let them know what you expect that week. And maybe one another time during the week. Kind of Just to give a reminder and rally the troops.
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Sending people home... I've had it work both ways.
I sent my printer home once, I can't remember the details I'm sure he or my wife remembers them. But he got it, loud and clear.
Then I sent our old office assistant home once. She had spent 2 hours eating lunch and playing games (loudly) on the computer. I asked my printer and he said "she's been doing that since you guys left". Not that I couldn't trust his word, but I won't do that without backup, I looked through the cameras and sure enough 2 solid hours of di*king around and playing games. I went up front and said "Why don't you go a head and clock out and go home". This was a Friday and she responded with "Sure, works for me" and bolted. The wife thought the message was driven home. Her attitude seemed a LITTLE better during the next week. Then came payday. My wife sent my printer down the road to the restaurant where I was meeting some friends/clients/contractors he tells me that she rounded her time out that day up about 20 mins. I'm like, you know what, I don't give a crap about 20 mins... then he tells me. She also didn't put down that she took a lunch that day. :o "Ok, just fire her" How ridiculous, I mean that is why I sent you home!!!!
So, it really depends on your employee. My printer is a great employee now. Granted he's only 19 so every now and then he needs a reminder to pick up the attitude (at least around customers... he's never bad to us, just a little frumpy and we don't want customers to get that vibe from him... he dates my daughter, so frumpy is expected from dealing with her ;) ). But 99% of the time he's great with customers and a model employee and definitely a team player. He's coming in around noon today (his day off) because we are going look at a new facility to buy and he's as pumped about it as I am.
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I have sent guys home before but it's been a rare occurrence, and I do think that's a great way to get a point across. And it does suck to get lied to and that's whats happening. I have been saving all the misprints (those have been on the rise lately) and keep track of all the mistakes in my notebook and we are going to start having meetings in the morning, I'm thinking once a week to start off and see how that goes. I've got one guy, my printer, who is above average but he thinks he knows more than everybody else in the shop and he also thinks he knows how to handle a screen so none of the stuff that I say applies to him is how he thinks. Then I've got two dingleberries that know what they need to do but they're just young and dumb. They are eager to learn most of the time and they don't get along with my printer very well which nobody really does because he's such a red ass most of the time. I'll admit I've been doing a lot of other things than hovering over them and the mistakes and problems are showing up. I just need to spend more time in production, we do an awful lot for just 3 guys, me and an artist so spending more time out there will help some. But the way things are in the other building and what I've been trying to do to help others out has interfered with screen printing production. I can't give my printer an authority, he will abuse it and make everyone miserable, and the other 2 wouldn't have my printer's respect so it would be a waste of time to get someone to watch over things when I'm not back there. We're planning on moving my office to the engraving room and putting in a few windows so I will always be able to see what's going on in production. Right now when I'm at my desk doing something I can't see production so that's going to change in a couple of weeks and I think that will help some, but who knows how much.
I do not know the dynamics of your shop so I might be just pissing in the wind. Your problem starts with the printer. Time for a reality check with that guy. If he gives you that attitude when your there what does he say to the guys when you walk away? Attitudes get check at the door here. If it walks through it gets sent right out the door.
It is not about power it is about doing what they are paid to do. They are paid to follow your rules and your procedures.
My printer a few weeks back gave me some sht over getting a color closer then where it was. Had to sit him down and let him know that if I have him change it 50 times until its right he better do it with a smile. I told him if he was willing to pay for the 7k shirts if the client rejects the color then to go ahead and run it as is. Attitude changed right then and there with an apology. I told him that I just dont tell him stuff to be bossy that it is for a reason, and that reason is important because it is part of a bigger picture. Most of these guys cant see that far or just dont care to process the big picture. If they did they would understand.
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Most back room workers, don't understand. The owner is ultimately responsible for the error and sometime that can very expensive for 7,000 shirts or as little as a mesh for a screen or 2 a week. It all adds up. We call it butt cover. Safe not sorry if possible.
Shane
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Most of these guys cant see that far or just dont care to process the big picture. If they did they would understand.
BOOM!!! That's it right there. My guy is totally on board with this concept now.
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Alan sorry about your woes but I can say is holy s!@#, you have no idea how good you have it.
I thought the other guy we had doing screens was bad. The new guy....well I can't understand how he got the job.
The screens I'm handed for my press are mostly:
Filthy - ink all over the frame. Yes, the ones that were JUST COATED AND BURNED.
You can see spots of stray ink UNDER the emulsion.
Pinholes up the yazoo.
Fish eyes.
Streaks.
Ghosts.
Abrasion.
Holes. Holes everywhere. In MOST of the screens. I counted about twelve holes in one screen. (from 1/16" to about 1/2")
Missing/pinched detail.
Images burned flipped over.
Images burned in the wrong place.
Opposite colors ganged together, which means I have to wash them all when going from a front to back print.
And worst of all....LOW tension. (all statics) Maybe 12-15 newtons TOPS on the best screens in the shop. All the rest are saggy garbage. They won't buy new screens either.
And there is not a damn thing I can do about it. I went from having my own shop with meticulously maintained Newman M3's to a shop filled with pure amateur hour disgrace. Everything I say (and the other press operator says) falls on deaf ears. They won't fire the terrible screen guy and they won't train him correctly. (and I think he doesn't give a flyin f!@# anyway) I've seen him have to re-burn screens for almost every job. One 6 color job took 14 screens to get it right.
But hey....health insurance.
*sigh*
Too bad you live to far north. I could put you to work.
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My printer a few weeks back gave me some sht over getting a color closer then where it was. Had to sit him down and let him know that if I have him change it 50 times until its right he better do it with a smile. I told him if he was willing to pay for the 7k shirts if the client rejects the color then to go ahead and run it as is. Attitude changed right then and there with an apology. I told him that I just dont tell him stuff to be bossy that it is for a reason, and that reason is important because it is part of a bigger picture. Most of these guys cant see that far or just dont care to process the big picture. If they did they would understand.
This is one of the most important conversations you can have.
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I don't believe sending people home for a day or screaming at them will work. It will only create "us vs them" mentality. If I do have to send them home, I do it quietly and tell them never to come back.
I use to scream but it did not work. So I started to hold group meetings trying to fix things. The first few months was extremely painful because they would not talk ("us vs them").
I showed them what is costing me and ask them how we can reduce that cost (rejects, quality, efficiency etc).
I got them to come up with ideas and process to improve the place. Some crazy stuff they come up with works. Makes them feel good when I am surprised.
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My approach always. Also never throw things. And I never raise my voice. Well perhaps by half a dec but when I do it has an immediate affect
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and thats why no one gets a raise or a bonus this week.
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Yeah, throwing stuff no good.
Who cares how much work you get done or how perfect it is if you feel like you're
under the gun (or floodbar) constantly. I couldn't hang.
Probably the angriest thing I say is "why?". One word carries a lot of weight.
I haven't had to ask it in a long time either, the kids are more than forthcoming
when something happens, unless they don't know why it happens, or it's the machines
fault.
I don't think you cultivate respect and team mentality with a sword, but I could be wrong.
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I think one thing is missing here...expectations. what are their expectations?
we have a morning meeting EVERYDAY. we go over everything and see if anything needs to be ordered people time off ect. that way everyone knows what is going on and what the expectation for the day week month year are.
thoughts?
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We had these career builder type people come into my high school to try and get us all jazzed up about working
for the rest of our lives. They wanted us to write our goals down, and then mission statements on how to reach them.
I could see how that could be helpful for some folks but for me it's just a huge turn off. Reminds me of Office Space.
TPS reports and the like.
Then again I don't know, maybe if I had written a mission statement at fifteen years old I wouldn't be knee deep in this silly industry.
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I think one thing is missing here...expectations. what are their expectations?
we have a morning meeting EVERYDAY. we go over everything and see if anything needs to be ordered people time off ect. that way everyone knows what is going on and what the expectation for the day week month year are.
thoughts?
Expectations is the key. I do not yell nor do I kick things either. Yelling just makes the situation to tense and leads to an unwanted situation. I treat my guys with respect and treat them the way I want to be treated. I have a very low tolerance for common sense when it comes to the shop but that is another topic. I want my guys to feel like what they do makes a difference. Because what they do affects everyone at the shop. They know that if they get the talk that its bad. The guy I spoke about sending home came in and apologized. He asked how close he was to getting fired and and I said there is not a easurment on the ruler small enough to measure that. He has been top notch all day today. I pulled him aside and let him know that I noticed. He was grateful and happy that I noticed.
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We had these career builder type people come into my high school to try and get us all jazzed up about working
for the rest of our lives. They wanted us to write our goals down, and then mission statements on how to reach them.
I could see how that could be helpful for some folks but for me it's just a huge turn off. Reminds me of Office Space.
TPS reports and the like.
Then again I don't know, maybe if I had written a mission statement at fifteen years old I wouldn't be knee deep in this silly industry.
If you never set a goal how do you know where your going in life?
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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Wait till I upload the pics from what I found today. I'm super busy so it might not be till tomorrow but good lord, some of my screens that are only a year old look like they've been through a war. Tomorrow is the day, I'll keep y'all posted, gonna be a bad day for everyone if I don't hear what I need to hear and see what I want to see.
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On the angry printer, one guy like that can be the roadblock to developing a real awesome team. I dealt with a guy who was one of the best technicians I ever worked with, but his attitude was holding us back, constant issues he knew everything and made a point to tell the other guys how they knew nothing. While he was there I had a high turn over especially with the entry level guys, constant issues and crappy attitudes after I got rid of him my team was awesome and developed into a fricking machine. Sometimes we get comfortable with what we have and dont see what the real issue is.
A poor attitude is a cancer. Get rid if the printer, take the hit and rebuild or bring another guy on then can him I would bet he is a huge part of your issues. By allowing a pissy attitude you are telling the other employees you don't care just keep printing and working like that sucks. Good luck man these issues are very hard
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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This is so important I must chime in on both the specific nature of this thread as well as its slightly off topic discussion.
If anyone is interested in my jaded yet experienced I'll respond,
tp
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Your problem Alan is you probably don't want to (or more like can't) send your whole crew home when they all start narcing each other out. I've never had anyone in here who liked to point fingers at others when they erred...at least no one for too long.
Don`t want to come to any foregone conclusion here but these things tend to happen if you don`t have a "team" but rather a group of individuals working for you.
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This is so important I must chime in on both the specific nature of this thread as well as its slightly off topic discussion.
If anyone is interested in my jaded yet experienced I'll respond,
tp
I'm sure everyone is always interested in what you have to say.
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This is so important I must chime in on both the specific nature of this thread as well as its slightly off topic discussion.
If anyone is interested in my jaded yet experienced I'll respond,
tp
All ears. Hearing the different approaches is a good thing.
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I've looked at most all of our screens today and have determined a few things I had suspected were the cause and have found a lot more damage that is very easy to see where it's coming from. There is definitely one person that lacks the concept of the team and I have enough evidence now to say with about 95% accuracy that he's the one doing the most damage to the screens. He's gone out of his way to make the other two look bad and that's almost on a daily basis. I know most of you are thinking why not just get rid of this problem employee, well, I do agree that it is what needs to be done but just trust me when I say it's more than a little complicated. I've complained about this guy a ton over the years, but when you really look at what good he's done, how hard he has worked you quickly come to realize that those kind of guys don't come around too often. I can set up jobs faster, I can print better, I can do everything that he can do but I have to be able and free to do other things and he allows me to do that. He's a headache to deal with most days, he's like dealing with a 15 year old emotional girl and damn is he sensitive as I've ever seen a man, but at the end of the day, he's loyal, he works hard, and he's apparently hard on equipment to be honest and if I can get him to take better care of the screens then he's going to stay. If he can't, at least I'll be able to sleep at night knowing I gave him more than a fair chance.
I have a plan for tomorrow and boundaries will be set, expectations will be layed out and those who follow will be rewarded and if there is anyone that isn't on board then they will be let go. I'm going to give this guy a chance that he probably doesn't deserve but if it were either one of the other two guys working out back, it would be very easy to cut the cord. For all his bad points he's got some very good ones but I can't let him get away with damaging our equipment. His good has outweighed the bad up until the screen damage issue so now I'm giving him one last chance because with all we've been through at work and beyond, I feel he does deserve it. He's done things for this company that nobody else would or could have done and I've done things on his behalf at the shop and away that nobody else would do so I want to make sure I give him the opportunity to make things right. I hope I'm doing the right thing, but I'm going to do it nicely, politely, and firm. He's never been one to take criticism AT ALL, but it's time to act like men and get this handled. Wish me luck.
And I'd love to hear Tony's take on this, fire away Tony.
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I've complained about this guy a ton over the years
In that time you could have been training a good-natured person to be as good or better than you on the press. Just sayin.
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...He has been top notch all day today. I pulled him aside and let him know that I noticed. He was grateful and happy that I noticed.
This is super important and some times hard to do for us stubborn guys that sometimes think "well, that is what they are just SUPPOSED to do, why should I 'reward'?" But it's the best thing.
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I've looked at most all of our screens today and have determined a few things I had suspected were the cause and have found a lot more damage that is very easy to see where it's coming from. There is definitely one person that lacks the concept of the team and I have enough evidence now to say with about 95% accuracy that he's the one doing the most damage to the screens. He's gone out of his way to make the other two look bad and that's almost on a daily basis. I know most of you are thinking why not just get rid of this problem employee, well, I do agree that it is what needs to be done but just trust me when I say it's more than a little complicated. I've complained about this guy a ton over the years, but when you really look at what good he's done, how hard he has worked you quickly come to realize that those kind of guys don't come around too often. I can set up jobs faster, I can print better, I can do everything that he can do but I have to be able and free to do other things and he allows me to do that. He's a headache to deal with most days, he's like dealing with a 15 year old emotional girl and damn is he sensitive as I've ever seen a man, but at the end of the day, he's loyal, he works hard, and he's apparently hard on equipment to be honest and if I can get him to take better care of the screens then he's going to stay. If he can't, at least I'll be able to sleep at night knowing I gave him more than a fair chance.
I have a plan for tomorrow and boundaries will be set, expectations will be layed out and those who follow will be rewarded and if there is anyone that isn't on board then they will be let go. I'm going to give this guy a chance that he probably doesn't deserve but if it were either one of the other two guys working out back, it would be very easy to cut the cord. For all his bad points he's got some very good ones but I can't let him get away with damaging our equipment. His good has outweighed the bad up until the screen damage issue so now I'm giving him one last chance because with all we've been through at work and beyond, I feel he does deserve it. He's done things for this company that nobody else would or could have done and I've done things on his behalf at the shop and away that nobody else would do so I want to make sure I give him the opportunity to make things right. I hope I'm doing the right thing, but I'm going to do it nicely, politely, and firm. He's never been one to take criticism AT ALL, but it's time to act like men and get this handled. Wish me luck.
And I'd love to hear Tony's take on this, fire away Tony.
Alan, my man.. you are sounding like me with my computer techs... I find reasons to keep them when I know I should can them.
I think TEAM is a common theme going on here and there is a reason... it's important. My t-shirt company is rocking and rolling, why? Because our guys and (not any less importantly) us, get along well. Our office assistant/manager and my printer hang out, outside of work. They have also created a "bowling night" because our local lanes have $7/hour per lane on Tuesdays. So I made it company sponsored and I pay for the lanes and shoes and we all go and compete/have a bunch of fun. My office manager doesn't like me paying for it so I let them (her and her boy friend) buy the pizza. :) $50 bucks well spent. Plus they (the girls) have started a "rivalry" with us in a boys against girls thing. So now we are getting silly and making uniforms. Ordering bowling shirts and printing up some cool designs on the backs and putting our logo on the left chest. I've taken it up a notch and we secretly ordered some golf towels and my guy designed a logo to embroider on them and then last night we had the grand unveiling of them. Our team name is "Pin Pimps", it was awesome and sparked the rivalry up even more. This week if time allows we will be putting our screen printing on the back of our shirts which is a bowling ball with an afro slapping the pins down with a 70's theme. It's awesome!
You know who is left out of this group, my computer tech. No one really likes him, no one wants to hang out with him. Who is the guy hanging on by a thread to his job? My computer tech. If he had a better attitude/personality he would not be in this situation. But as much as we try to help him get on bored, it's just not happening. I even have a hard time getting past his personality to see if he's a decent employee. He's not bad with customers and he has POTENTIAL but part of his problem is he's a "people pleaser" so everytime anyone tells him anything he basically cuts them off with "yeah yeah yeah, ok!" like he's all into what you are saying. Then you are fooled into thinking he "gets it" but then later it's like "WTF? Why didn't he do X" and you realize he never was listening, he was just trying to make you think he's a great guy or something. Ugh.
Sorry for the derail!
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I've looked at most all of our screens today and have determined a few things I had suspected were the cause and have found a lot more damage that is very easy to see where it's coming from. There is definitely one person that lacks the concept of the team and I have enough evidence now to say with about 95% accuracy that he's the one doing the most damage to the screens. He's gone out of his way to make the other two look bad and that's almost on a daily basis. I know most of you are thinking why not just get rid of this problem employee, well, I do agree that it is what needs to be done but just trust me when I say it's more than a little complicated. I've complained about this guy a ton over the years, but when you really look at what good he's done, how hard he has worked you quickly come to realize that those kind of guys don't come around too often. I can set up jobs faster, I can print better, I can do everything that he can do but I have to be able and free to do other things and he allows me to do that. He's a headache to deal with most days, he's like dealing with a 15 year old emotional girl and damn is he sensitive as I've ever seen a man, but at the end of the day, he's loyal, he works hard, and he's apparently hard on equipment to be honest and if I can get him to take better care of the screens then he's going to stay. If he can't, at least I'll be able to sleep at night knowing I gave him more than a fair chance.
I have a plan for tomorrow and boundaries will be set, expectations will be layed out and those who follow will be rewarded and if there is anyone that isn't on board then they will be let go. I'm going to give this guy a chance that he probably doesn't deserve but if it were either one of the other two guys working out back, it would be very easy to cut the cord. For all his bad points he's got some very good ones but I can't let him get away with damaging our equipment. His good has outweighed the bad up until the screen damage issue so now I'm giving him one last chance because with all we've been through at work and beyond, I feel he does deserve it. He's done things for this company that nobody else would or could have done and I've done things on his behalf at the shop and away that nobody else would do so I want to make sure I give him the opportunity to make things right. I hope I'm doing the right thing, but I'm going to do it nicely, politely, and firm. He's never been one to take criticism AT ALL, but it's time to act like men and get this handled. Wish me luck.
And I'd love to hear Tony's take on this, fire away Tony.
Just what you have described above in my opinion there is no way his good out ways the bad. That guy would have been out the door pretty damn fast. There is no way he is that good. To deal with that, his worst day of printing better win every award at ISS to have to put up with that BS. This is the type of individual that can bring down the whole place to his level and ruin a good place to work. Before I got into printing I managed 60+ people. Sometimes you have to remove the cancer before it spreads to an irreparable level.
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6:00 AM and have to finish staging so not much time but heres my take. First, in all my years I have rarely seen employees deliberately damage equipment although it surely can occur and if or when that
might occur swift action should be taken and termination is certainly an option. Moreoften than not, however, many instances described above are due to neglect, oversight, and sometimes an overeagerness to get the job done better and faster.
In the latter case, its hard to find fault in an employees desire to get it done right and fast. This is where the employee(s) fail to understand the big picture. After all, it's difficult to observe the consequences of your actions from 30,000 feet when said feet are planted firmly on the ground. This is where management comes in.
Lets look at the screen issues. Assuming fabrication is under control most will find that damage is largely due to mis-handling. When I see frames stacked against a wall I see damage waiting to happen. When I see teardown procedures take place in a haphazardous manner I can usually expect the same.
Rather than focusing on a particular employee I would first look at procedures and infrastructure. As an example are there enough rolling screen racks to safely deliver the screens to there appointed destinations? Are the right tools positoned at the proper stations to perform designated functions?
And probably most important, are there sufficient training instructions provided for each function such that each employee performs every function in essentially the same way?
Perhaps we know these answers but perhaps not so much. This is where meetings come in. I believe them to be most effective when we take a jovial yet serious approach. Improperly held meetings can cause more harm and friction than not having them at all. When conducted properly, employees can walk away feeling like they have a more vested interest in the company and that their jobs will be less stressfull. The ever present barrier can be broken down.
Of course, problem employees could and should be counseled individually, however I have found a certain degree of success when calling them out, ever so subtly, in public. And of course these strategies differ largely due to the amount of employees so your results may vary but my humble advise is to truely step back and look at all aspects to problems and take time to consider solutions.
Often there are more than one.
My last bit of advice I'll pass along from an old mentor of mine with regards to managing employees:
"Mind the three Fs.......be friendly when ever possible, be firm when necessary, and always try to remain fair at all times".
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I spent some time last night trying to duplicate the damage that I'm seeing on most of the screens and it's happening when sliding the screens into the screen holders on the auto. Since they are side clamps, if you bring the screen in at an angle where the back of the screen enters the head first is higher than the front of the screen then the clamps can dig into the polyken tape and possibly tear it if you do it hard enough. That doesn't explain the other damage that I showed pictures of but at least I can see how this is happening even though it shouldn't be happening. It's easy to put a screen into the press without doing this, it's just simple neglect and if you get in a hurry it can happen or if your just not careful it will happen.
Here is one of the worst screens.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4290_zps193c2c08.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4290_zps193c2c08.jpg.html)
How is this happening? Looks like they have been slammed down on top of rocks or something.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4295_zps9cce94bd.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4295_zps9cce94bd.jpg.html)
WOW, check out this one. Nice cut which sliced right through the mesh. This one happened yesterday afternoon between getting off the exposure unit and the press. Yet nobody has a clue how it happened. The guy I trust the most (which isn't saying much) tells me he developed this screen, it was in good shape, it got taped up and never was used on the press because my printer actually felt like doing a color change on press instead of using another screen and when it came back to the reclaim station this is what it looked like. This one is the one that gets to me the most. Have any of you guys that have been in a print shop for any amount of time seen this? Amazing to me.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4294_zps259671b8.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4294_zps259671b8.jpg.html)
Another screen that looks like tape dispenser teeth and the mesh has let go on this one so it's worthless.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4293_zpsfaccf84d.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4293_zpsfaccf84d.jpg.html)
Well, I'm about to order pizza, then we're having a lunch meeting and I hope I can stay calm and cool but if I get any push back or any eye rolling I might lose it. I'm going to tell them that I am going to retape the bad screens and note the damage on every single screen in the shop and if this continues then I will be interviewing for replacements. I get people stopping by the shop every week that are looking for a job so it won't be a problem getting guys in here but I'll be back on the press if my printer doesn't get it straight and I'm not looking forward to that. I'm getting soft since spending a few hours a day in the AC.
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MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF YOUR PRINTER!!!!!!!. He is the root of your problem. 3 days on the beach with no pay should wake him up. Write his ass up for the attitude. Get out of the AC and show these guys how to do it............... :D
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MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF YOUR PRINTER!!!!!!!. He is the root of your problem. 3 days on the beach with no pay should wake him up. Write his ass up for the attitude. Get out of the AC and show these guys how to do it............... :D
I'm all for this, remind them that you can still do it, and they are replaceable. Some people have to see that at times. You know "the boss never works" attitude.
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MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF YOUR PRINTER!!!!!!!. He is the root of your problem. 3 days on the beach with no pay should wake him up. Write his ass up for the attitude. Get out of the AC and show these guys how to do it............... :D
I'm all for this, remind them that you can still do it, and they are replaceable. Some people have to see that at times. You know "the boss never works" attitude.
Is that what Shelly does to you every now and then. ;)
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Here we go again... Round 6,894... :-)
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He admits she is the rock of that place... I'm only barely f'ing with him.
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He admits she is the rock of that place... I'm only barely f'ing with him.
Shelly is the rock of this place, never would suggest otherwise.
I occasionally Screen Print and Embroider. But not often. After all I am 100% of the sales/customer service at this point. I stay pretty busy. I dont take offense to that at all. My job is to make money and put orders in front of the people ive hired to do the work.
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Nan that one screen looks like a razor knife that clean and straight of a cut through the tape yikes
RT Screen Designs
www.rtscreendesigns.com
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Alan, I think you found yer problem generally with the roller damage (excepting the razor slice!). I've seen this happen from going in/out of racks, same concept. I just keep everyone reminded to keep the screens horizontal when racking/unracking and it keeps it from getting out of hand. Double layer of the newman yellow tape don't hurt none either.
Tony, well said on the meeting tenor. That's how I like to do it to. We have a daily schedule we work hard to stick to and it starts and ends with a brief meeting. After the first couple, they go quick and efficient.
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We use bakers racks that fit our 25" wide frames, but I think the majority of screen racks out
there are the similar, if not the same thing re-branded.
The shelves have rounded corners, but can still ding up frames, even if you are careful.
We bent down the corners and covered each shelf in Polyken. No more dings and the
screens slide like butter.
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A trick for racking on racks that have rough shelves is to flip the frames and rack upside down.
One of our racks is actually an older "official" newman one and it's has these corrugated shelf wings that are very gentle on the frames. The new ones they make are super crazy with some kind of flexible, soft plastic. It's might all seem like overkill but it's not- everywhere the screen rests must be "mesh safe" or you just chase yer tail. I've stuck to that rule and we use nothing but delicate, thin thread mesh on rollers and don't need mesh protector sleeves (just newman yellow tape) or have premature breakage issues. Handling is another story though...hope it all works out Al.
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A trick for racking on racks that have rough shelves is to flip the frames and rack upside down.
One of our racks is actually an older "official" newman one and it's has these corrugated shelf wings that are very gentle on the frames. The new ones they make are super crazy with some kind of flexible, soft plastic. It's might all seem like overkill but it's not- everywhere the screen rests must be "mesh safe" or you just chase yer tail. I've stuck to that rule and we use nothing but delicate, thin thread mesh on rollers and don't need mesh protector sleeves (just newman yellow tape) or have premature breakage issues. Handling is another story though...hope it all works out Al.
Even though all of our racks are mesh safe, the only time we have them print side down is when they are in the drying closet or on the racks to get imaged. This way the emulsion dries properly and we don't get any dust between the screen and metal halide bulb.
All other times the screens are print side up which makes for easier moving of them and keeping the mesh even safer.
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I'll update tomorrow once I get my head wrapped around what happened today. I'm dumbfounded at how to handle this but it's something that I don't think anyone will quite understand unless you were there. I had my artist sit in on it with me cause he's my right hand man around here and he's pretty close to my printer too and even he doesn't understand how or what to do but I have a plan as usual and I'm sure I'll discuss it with you guys before I move forward. I accomplished what I wanted to (for the most part), everyone knows what is expected, they know the screens are getting damaged and what is causing it on most of the screens, and that if it continues the responsible party won't be around, but there is still unfinished business to attend to.
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I don't know if part of this thread should have been split off as a restricted business discussion, in the Business section.
Think about future posts if they are about making and caring for screens (this section), or disciplining employees (Running and Growing a Business)
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I've got more screen abuse I'd like to show off because I'm obviously so proud. I've tried my best to handle this in a diplomatic way and give the guys the benefit of the doubt when of course we all know better. I've let others within the company share their thoughts and ideas on how to handle it along with you guys and there is always lot's of good advice that I can use and I've tried more than a few of them. This is what I found today.
You can see clearly that there are many "teeth" marks and I can count a dozen separate marks like someone tried that many times to puncture the screen.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4329_zps20732ee7.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4329_zps20732ee7.jpg.html)
These marks are on 3 of the 4 corners but the first/above is by far the worst.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4330_zps54f85ebd.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4330_zps54f85ebd.jpg.html)
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4331_zps38eab3f4.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4331_zps38eab3f4.jpg.html)
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4332_zpsbfb6b5ae.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4332_zpsbfb6b5ae.jpg.html)
This screen was stretched last week and went through production a grand total of ONE time.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4333_zps22b939b0.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_4333_zps22b939b0.jpg.html)
So here we are. I've known for a while that the damage was being done deliberately but the first screen is so blatant and is almost like someone is begging to get caught or taunting me. I had to sit in the dark room and gather my temper when I found these this morning and I won't give up on this but holy S, I'm about beat down. I need to find strength to keep fighting this. I've got a camera pointed directly at the FPU and taping station, so that's one more way to make sure I catch the culprit, but now I'm going to have to watch hours of tape over the next few weeks until I find something.
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That's crazy. IMO that looks totally intentional.
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I'm going with intentionally careless in an attempt to mock you.
That's my take.
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...to me, there is a case to be made here that these are not intentional, but definitely careless. That tape has thread reinforcement running through it, and any sharp abrasion on the tape will leave marks along the thread lines, resembling teethmarks.
...take a metal ruler and run it kinda hard across the tape when it is applied to a hard surface. You can try it on a perished screen if the tape remains on the roller. Its pretty easy to replicate actually.
...not saying that you don't have some monkey business goin on, or at the very least, some carelessness. But its worth a thought before taking the situation to a level that cannot be undone. No one likes to be falsely accused, and they may not realize that this is possibly happening.
...Just a thought.
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Seriously Alan, between this and lost shirt you found in the catcher box that everyone was like "meh" about, you have some serious attitude problems going on there. Maybe not defiant attitude, but certainly an unacceptable amount of complacency and carelessness.
You should clean house. No positives can possibly outweigh these negatives, especially since judging by your past posts this has been an ongoing problem for some time.
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I agree with the above. Time to make an example out of someone. They need to know your serious and it needs to cost the person with the biggest attitude problem their job.
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Just to be on the flip side here. WHY would somebody do this intentionally and HOW? how do you take a screen or tape gun and slowly gouge into the tape without going all the way through? it doesn't make sense to me. I would look at a few more things, screen cleaning sink/station, screen racks in dark room, frame holders on the press - there might be a few burrs someplace...it's a long shot and carelessness is still in play here but it just doesn't add up that somebody would do this on purpose. I would do the opposite and offer a reward for the person to find the issue. every single guy is going to watch those screens like a hawk...never know what you may find.
this has gone on long enough and rules to live by -keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you got.....time to find another route to the issue....but this is just my take....
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yeah, i go with carelessness, not intentional. nonetheless, a little management generated turnover might be what the shop needs.
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If you look at his second pic that is a very odd spot to have so much damage. It is several inches in from the frame corners and nothing ridged is behind that spot. A chronic damaged spot like that should be fairly easy to figure out why that is happening. I think Homer has the best solution, offer an incentive to the person that discovers why that is happening.
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Id hit the ATM. Id get 5 x $100 bills out. Id walk into production chunk it out on the table, id announce that your offering $500 to the person that rats out who is causing the screen issue. Id walk away, you will have your problem solved in minutes. Which means it will either stop happening or you will be told by more than one person WHO it is.
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Just to be on the flip side here. WHY would somebody do this intentionally and HOW? how do you take a screen or tape gun and slowly gouge into the tape without going all the way through? it doesn't make sense to me. I would look at a few more things, screen cleaning sink/station, screen racks in dark room, frame holders on the press - there might be a few burrs someplace...it's a long shot and carelessness is still in play here but it just doesn't add up that somebody would do this on purpose. I would do the opposite and offer a reward for the person to find the issue. every single guy is going to watch those screens like a hawk...never know what you may find.
this has gone on long enough and rules to live by -keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you got.....time to find another route to the issue....but this is just my take....
Great idea, and by the guy that sh!t cans someone once a week. ;)
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You guys don't think the recent damage is intentional? I see what Mr Tees is saying about the thread beneath the top layer but when I try to abrade the tape I don't get marks like that no matter what I do it with. The first image on this page has an indention like a lot of weight was put on that corner then the outer layer of tape was perferated many times in different directions. But when you try to replicate it...it's not something I can imagine someone doing. I couldn't replicate it really. I've spent the last 2 hours carrying a screen around and trying to find somewhere that could do that damage and I'm about halfway through the entire shop without finding anything. I'll figure it out one way or another and I really hope it's something that isn't being done on purpose, but at this point I can't see a scenario that it isn't. If you watch a screen go through it's entire cycle and see everything that it comes in contact with, nothing I can think of would do that to a screen without trying.
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The thing about it is, you can't idiot proof anything--the idiots are too damn smart.
If you want to be non-confrontational about it, I'd say reverse that $500 plan--they all split it in two months--every time they f*ck up a screen, take fifty out. Sh!t, give them a thousand twice a year--you'll save a lot more than that fixing the problem.
Perhaps joke about how much you're going to have to dock their pay because they are ruining so many screens?
(You probably can't, legally, but it might wake them up as to YOUR plight)
Hope something works out for you Alan.
I've been lucky to be in a small enough shop where I really barely have to let anyone else touch my rollers.
Last few years have been wonderful...
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And now you are in the position where you have to take some kind of action on an employee. When you first had a sit down with them I am sure you gave some ultimatums. Make them all aware that someone is going to be in trouble intentional or negligence someone has to be held accountable.
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(http://www.q1045fm.com/up-n-adam/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fired3.jpg)
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Well Alan, we got one as well... and we know this wasn't malicious.
So it CAN happen, no auto, rear clamps... we do have a screen rack.
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Well Alan, we got one as well... and we know this wasn't malicious.
So it CAN happen, no auto, rear clamps... we do have a screen rack.
This may be far fetched but does anyone think it is possible that is from a finger/thumb pressing to hard on the tape? As mentioned earlier the thread in the tape can make damage look like that?
Maybe someone can grab a frame and squeeze it with their thumb and see if anything similar occurs.
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I've tried numerous ways to do this damage and can't duplicate it without doing some blunt force trauma. A finger nail or thumb press won't do it, it takes a serious slam onto something hard. It's like they are dropping screens while trying to juggle them on top of the press, maybe I've got a circus act going on back there and don't know about it yet.
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Yeah, you aren't damaging that polyken with a finger!