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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Mark @ Hurricane Printing on November 02, 2013, 12:35:14 PM
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Do they make 12ft or 15ft single phase IR dryers with air flow capabilities? Currently I have an old 8ft EconoRed Vastex IR dryer....and no air flow...it does have a vent. I do not have 3 phase in my home obviously so any upgrade I do will have to be a single phase situation. My dryer has two plugs...one to control the belt and another plug for the IR heaters.
Not upgrading anytime soon at all but was just curious at the moment what my options would be.
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Chaparral
makes made them... Ir panels with air knives between them... But there is not much put out by those air knives.
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I have a Lawson 3612 single phase 60 amps with airflow.
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The toughest part of converting 3-phase ovens to single phase is usually the motors for the belt and blowers. The heating elements/relays/mercury switches are usually relatively easy to re-wire for use in single phase if the units are 208-240 VAC. Someone with a bit of know-how could wire in a small 3-phase converter for the motors and re-wire the elements to run off single phase.
Hix makes some big electric ovens that would be a pretty easy conversion, I don't have direct experience converting other brands.
Be aware, you do lose a lot of efficiency going from 3-1phase.
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The toughest part of converting 3-phase ovens to single phase is usually the motors for the belt and blowers. The heating elements/relays/mercury switches are usually relatively easy to re-wire for use in single phase if the units are 208-240 VAC. Someone with a bit of know-how could wire in a small 3-phase converter for the motors and re-wire the elements to run off single phase.
Hix makes some big electric ovens that would be a pretty easy conversion, I don't have direct experience converting other brands.
Be aware, you do lose a lot of efficiency going from 3-1phase.
i wouldn't take any part of converting a 3 phase to a single phase......just seems dangerous to me even if professionally done.
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Actually the Chaparral can go either way... only thing that converts is the panels. Goes from all on one circuit, to each on their own leg/phase. motors and blowers work on a 110 leg by themselves.
Most of these motors and blowers are so small I couldn't imagine them being 3 phase, but I certainly could be wrong.
Ink, you lose nothing converting resistive loads from 3 phase to 1 phase, they are just dumb loads. Motors on the other hand do lose efficiency but again... at this size, if it's even a factor, it would be VERY small.
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We like our Vastex EC1 54" but the second chamber add on would make it better. Does fine with plastisol, weak on discharge or water base. Our Maxi Cure does the job with no problems both plastisol and WB. The Maxi Cure was built 3 phase, the last owner switched it to single. I left it that way because our last shop was single but when we moved switched it back to 3 phase.
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The toughest part of converting 3-phase ovens to single phase is usually the motors for the belt and blowers. The heating elements/relays/mercury switches are usually relatively easy to re-wire for use in single phase if the units are 208-240 VAC. Someone with a bit of know-how could wire in a small 3-phase converter for the motors and re-wire the elements to run off single phase.
Hix makes some big electric ovens that would be a pretty easy conversion, I don't have direct experience converting other brands.
Be aware, you do lose a lot of efficiency going from 3-1phase.
i wouldn't take any part of converting a 3 phase to a single phase......just seems dangerous to me even if professionally done.
Would you look into it if it meant saving $25000 - $30000 for your shop?
The heating panels in the dryer I mentioned are all single phase, the controls are single phase, and in some cases even 115VAC. The motors are the only thing that really run 3-phases in the entire units. In the case of things like my single phase converted, 3-phase quartz flashes nothing in them was 3-phase, and they really just use it as 3 legs of 220. Many shops run 3 phase convertors in their single phase shops too.
It's no more dangerous than any other electronics, factory or altered, if done correctly.
The main problem with switching a big 3-phase oven is that the resulting single phase amperage load can be triple the 3-phase amp. load and you can end up with a 200-300 amp single phase boa-constrictor of a circuit to run. The components for that add up to some significant cash.
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The toughest part of converting 3-phase ovens to single phase is usually the motors for the belt and blowers. The heating elements/relays/mercury switches are usually relatively easy to re-wire for use in single phase if the units are 208-240 VAC. Someone with a bit of know-how could wire in a small 3-phase converter for the motors and re-wire the elements to run off single phase.
Hix makes some big electric ovens that would be a pretty easy conversion, I don't have direct experience converting other brands.
Be aware, you do lose a lot of efficiency going from 3-1phase.
i dont have a shop anymore..im in a one car garage. I see what you are saying though.....so its a typical thing to make a 3 a 1? I do not know enough about electricity so I am not familiar with the process....but if your saying some dryers are made to have the option between the two and not "make shifting" something then I am open to it.
i wouldn't take any part of converting a 3 phase to a single phase......just seems dangerous to me even if professionally done.
Would you look into it if it meant saving $25000 - $30000 for your shop?
The heating panels in the dryer I mentioned are all single phase, the controls are single phase, and in some cases even 115VAC. The motors are the only thing that really run 3-phases in the entire units. In the case of things like my single phase converted, 3-phase quartz flashes nothing in them was 3-phase, and they really just use it as 3 legs of 220. Many shops run 3 phase convertors in their single phase shops too.
It's no more dangerous than any other electronics, factory or altered, if done correctly.
The main problem with switching a big 3-phase oven is that the resulting single phase amperage load can be triple the 3-phase amp. load and you can end up with a 200-300 amp single phase boa-constrictor of a circuit to run. The components for that add up to some significant cash.
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you can always go gas, yes you still have the motors, but gas is more efficient than electric anyway and all of your power won't be tapped out on a single piece of equipment.
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The toughest part of converting 3-phase ovens to single phase is usually the motors for the belt and blowers. The heating elements/relays/mercury switches are usually relatively easy to re-wire for use in single phase if the units are 208-240 VAC. Someone with a bit of know-how could wire in a small 3-phase converter for the motors and re-wire the elements to run off single phase.
Hix makes some big electric ovens that would be a pretty easy conversion, I don't have direct experience converting other brands.
Be aware, you do lose a lot of efficiency going from 3-1phase.
i wouldn't take any part of converting a 3 phase to a single phase......just seems dangerous to me even if professionally done.
Would you look into it if it meant saving $25000 - $30000 for your shop?
The heating panels in the dryer I mentioned are all single phase, the controls are single phase, and in some cases even 115VAC. The motors are the only thing that really run 3-phases in the entire units. In the case of things like my single phase converted, 3-phase quartz flashes nothing in them was 3-phase, and they really just use it as 3 legs of 220. Many shops run 3 phase convertors in their single phase shops too.
It's no more dangerous than any other electronics, factory or altered, if done correctly.
The main problem with switching a big 3-phase oven is that the resulting single phase amperage load can be triple the 3-phase amp. load and you can end up with a 200-300 amp single phase boa-constrictor of a circuit to run. The components for that add up to some significant cash.
Ink, double check that math, 3 phase isn't much different than 1 phase 220. Actually if its 3ph 208 you will increase your amps over a 1ph 220... Though you can spread that across more copper lines, I've done the math and an additional copper line is more expensive than a bit thicker one. I had the option to switch my chaparral to 3ph when I moved it to my shop and opted to keep it 1ph.
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So if you have 3 heat panel circuits in a 3 phase dryer, each on a separate leg and each draws 50 amps, how big of single phase feed will you need once converted, to run all 3 50amp panel circuits? Original dryer feed was 60 amp 3-phase.
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But each don't only pull from the leg by itself... it takes two to tango. ;)
So, it will have be connected 1-2 2-3 and 3-1... basically all of them share the load.
Are you sure those panels are 50 amps each? That would be a 10kw panel.
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Do they make 12ft or 15ft single phase IR dryers with air flow capabilities? Currently I have an old 8ft EconoRed Vastex IR dryer....and no air flow...it does have a vent. I do not have 3 phase in my home obviously so any upgrade I do will have to be a single phase situation. My dryer has two plugs...one to control the belt and another plug for the IR heaters.
Not upgrading anytime soon at all but was just curious at the moment what my options would be.
I have a Ranar Red Star (2003), IR Dyer, it does come with an air flow option for wb inks. I do not have the air option. It does have an eight inch exhaust.The dryer has a three foot belt and is twelve feet long, 220v, 1 ph at 48 amps. I only use plastisol inks. It handles my automatic press just fine. I only have 100 amps to the garage and the compressor and chiller come off the house's 100 amps.
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Ranar does make some nice dryers at great prices:
http://ranar.com/Conveyor_dryer/turbo_jetstar_spec.html (http://ranar.com/Conveyor_dryer/turbo_jetstar_spec.html)
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But each don't only pull from the leg by itself... it takes two to tango. ;)
So, it will have be connected 1-2 2-3 and 3-1... basically all of them share the load.
Are you sure those panels are 50 amps each? That would be a 10kw panel.
That was just an example. The big dryer we did was a Hix 4816 and started as a 90 amp 3-phase. In Single phase I believe we basically ended up with a 200 amp service just for it.
I get what you're saying about each leg carrying 1/2 the load for two different circuits though. You're right The math probably works out to just less than double, but when you throw in a phase generator/converter for the belt & blower motors you're going to get some parasitic loss and I thought I'd say triple just to be on the safe side... ;D
I think for most shops that don't have access to 3-phase, a really big single phase circuit is probably not available either, or you may need to put an additional service in from the street just for the dryer. My two quartz flash-cures that we converted are now on 80 amp and 60 amp 220 circuits for the 20 x 32" and 20 x 24" respectively. The copper, junctions, breakers and Captire alone were over $1000 for the two runs, and my breaker box is right beside my press so it isn't a long run. I am lucky enough to have a good electrician friend who doesn't mind pulling circuits in an evening if I supply the pizza and beer. or I'm sure it would have cost another big chunk of change.
Mark, I'd probably suggest talking to Rich at M&R, or Winston. I run an old non-air Hix 24" belt with a 10' tunnel. (14' total length) It gets the job done and with small-medium sized images and careful folding we can do 40-45doz./hr through it without too much trouble. On big images or if we try to go faster it is the bottle neck. As a band-aid, we have an IR flash-cure that we can put over the belt at the in or outfeed which "sort-of" effectively gives us another 18" of tunnel and lets us speed up the belt a little bit. I run a 1.5 minute tunnel-dwell for plastisol and a 2 minute for WB/DC. both at 325F We could go faster with a higher temp, but you start potentially flirting with cure issues then. I have 400 amps of single phase in the shop and we're pretty much maxed out with all the equipment we have. The dryer pulls only 40 amps, the upgrade will be gas as we already have gas in the shop.
I had the same problem finding a big auto with all the features I wanted that wasn't 3-phase, and didn't need a big 3-phase air compressor, besides we wanted servo index AC heads. At first I thought we would need a big 3-phase convertor for the flash cures, but once my electrician and I looked into them and how they work, we realized with a couple of cheap parts and an hour or so of re-wiring we could convert them to single phase easily, so we did.
I've run a lot of Hix dryers, but I'm sure some of the other name brands have larger single phase units available, the biggest Hix does right now is a 3616 (http://www.hixcorp.com/dryercomparisoncharts/npii) with an 8' tunnel at 50 amps 3-phase or 88 amps single.
A quick look at M&R (http://www.mrprint.com/en/Textile%20Screen%20Printing%20Equipment/Conveyor%20Dryers%20%E2%80%93%20Electric%20&%20Gas/Electric%20Screen%20Printing%20Conveyor%20Dryers/RADICURE%20D%20Electric%20Screen%20Printing%20Conveyor%20Dryer/features#specs) shows their biggest is the Radicure 36/6-4 (10') with a 6'tunnel at 53 amps 3-P and 89 amps 1-P. I'm betting there are larger units out there, just not a stock item, and as you can see, you're going to be well over 100 amps as soon as you go any bigger.
Sorry for the long winded reply, squeezing big equipment into a single phase shop is a subject dear to me ;) My quote from the city to get 3-phase into the shop was $27,000.00, just less than the cost of my used 12/14.
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Used Hix 3616 with air here:
http://spresource.blogspot.ca/search/label/electric%20dryers (http://spresource.blogspot.ca/search/label/electric%20dryers)
Not sure if it's single or 3-P....
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Mark, have you given any thought to a gas dryer? I am just saying that because they typically use very little electricity, and it is easy to get them in single phase. May solve a couple of your problems in one shot. They are more expensive, but if you are faced with upgrading your panel (even for more single phase AMPs) you may come out ahead with a gas unit.
Just a thought.
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Ink, I still wonder if there are using 3ph motors for blowers and belts on a dryer. Typically they aren't that big of a motor so I am not even sure that they make them in 3ph at that size.
But that is PURE speculation and guess. I only know that my controller, blower and belt work off a single 120v line even when running it in 3ph.
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We had our Interchange MD-8 gas dryer created with single phase
when most are 3Ph. Pretty sure the 3Ph allows the blower to be more
efficient, but belt only needs single. It would of took $10-12K to get 3Ph
in our shop. Stinks.
In the long haul, say 10 years, a super large IR like asked about in topic
would be much more expensive than gas even with larger initial cash outlay.
Just like house heat, gas is always cheaper. Think long run and cost out on
paper before making any large purchase like this.
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Ink, I still wonder if there are using 3ph motors for blowers and belts on a dryer. Typically they aren't that big of a motor so I am not even sure that they make them in 3ph at that size.
But that is PURE speculation and guess. I only know that my controller, blower and belt work off a single 120v line even when running it in 3ph.
I'm not sure, the few I've looked at close enough have used 3-phase motors. If you found one that was using single phase motors you could probably convert the whole thing for next to nothing in parts cost and just a few hours of re-wiring. You still are only going to get a medium sized dryer if all you have is 100 amps to play with though.
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Ink, I still wonder if there are using 3ph motors for blowers and belts on a dryer. Typically they aren't that big of a motor so I am not even sure that they make them in 3ph at that size.
But that is PURE speculation and guess. I only know that my controller, blower and belt work off a single 120v line even when running it in 3ph.
I'm not sure, the few I've looked at close enough have used 3-phase motors. If you found one that was using single phase motors you could probably convert the whole thing for next to nothing in parts cost and just a few hours of re-wiring. You still are only going to get a medium sized dryer if all you have is 100 amps to play with though.
Belt drives are almost, if not always, DC motors. If the dryer is built for 3 phase and has a blower motor, there's no reason NOT to use a 3 phase motor, they are cheaper and more efficient.
I converted my circa 1989 precision vortex over to single phase by swapping only the blower motor (and wiring it). Single phase motors 3hp+ are NOT cheap.
Once you get up near 100amps draw single phase, your options for feed wiring from the panel to the dryer also get limited. Aluminum is cheaper at that point than copper but you'd need a bigger diameter lugged connection (the 3 phase connection in there is probably tiny in comparison) at the dryer to properly fit the larger diameter aluminum. That also doesn't take into consideration the gauge of the wiring running to the panels which may or may not be ok going from 208v to 240v.