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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: Donnie on July 21, 2011, 11:15:42 PM

Title: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 21, 2011, 11:15:42 PM
Have not had any problems with my press until today well OK it started yesterday.  Fired it up and started homing the indexer. The "sled" that sits atop of the indexer started slamming into the indexer motor and  forces the sled out of the track. Popped it back in and finally got it to home in.  I did not turn it off last night fearing a repeat performance today. I had to get a job out. Called tech and told em to stand by, I may have a problem. Finished up, shut down and got tech on the line. Fired it back up and it repeatedly does it. We reset on the indexer settings to default and loaded the current settings back.  No dice.  Long story short the Indexer controller is F$cked...  Replacement on the way....   Made a hot day even $hittier. >:(
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: JBLUE on July 22, 2011, 12:39:45 AM
Have not had any problems with my press until today well OK it started yesterday.  Fired it up and started homing the indexer. The "sled" that sits atop of the indexer started slamming into the indexer motor and  forces the sled out of the track. Popped it back in and finally got it to home in.  I did not turn it off last night fearing a repeat performance today. I had to get a job out. Called tech and told em to stand by, I may have a problem. Finished up, shut down and got tech on the line. Fired it back up and it repeatedly does it. We reset on the indexer settings to default and loaded the current settings back.  No dice.  Long story short the Indexer controller is F$cked...  Replacement on the way....   Made a hot day even $hittier. >:(

That Fckn sucks. Whats that going to run you?
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: ZooCity on July 22, 2011, 12:42:20 AM
That is way shitty.  How many impressions on that machine before this first real problem?
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: terryei on July 22, 2011, 09:10:24 AM
Have not had any problems with my press until today well OK it started yesterday.  Fired it up and started homing the indexer. The "sled" that sits atop of the indexer started slamming into the indexer motor and  forces the sled out of the track. Popped it back in and finally got it to home in.  I did not turn it off last night fearing a repeat performance today. I had to get a job out. Called tech and told em to stand by, I may have a problem. Finished up, shut down and got tech on the line. Fired it back up and it repeatedly does it. We reset on the indexer settings to default and loaded the current settings back.  No dice.  Long story short the Indexer controller is F$cked...  Replacement on the way....   Made a hot day even $hittier. >:(

Big Time PITA, but, sounds like support is on it, that's a good thing!
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: spotcolorsupply on July 22, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
Have not had any problems with my press until today well OK it started yesterday.  Fired it up and started homing the indexer. The "sled" that sits atop of the indexer started slamming into the indexer motor and  forces the sled out of the track. Popped it back in and finally got it to home in.  I did not turn it off last night fearing a repeat performance today. I had to get a job out. Called tech and told em to stand by, I may have a problem. Finished up, shut down and got tech on the line. Fired it back up and it repeatedly does it. We reset on the indexer settings to default and loaded the current settings back.  No dice.  Long story short the Indexer controller is F$cked...  Replacement on the way....   Made a hot day even $hittier. >:(
Was it the PCB-15 board???
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: T Shirt1 on July 22, 2011, 09:23:21 AM
And you had planned to head for the pool yesterday...... it never fails.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: jsheridan on July 22, 2011, 12:38:19 PM
  Long story short the Indexer controller is F$cked...  Replacement on the way....   Made a hot day even $hittier. >:(

Been there before.. PIA for sure. The trick is to keep the power on once you get it back or it'll reset again.

Remember once on a big job.. CHII  controller started going bad.. took 2 hours to get the machine up.. I put 1/2 a roll of duct tape on the power switch and a big sign stating do not turn the power off.. come in monday morning and it's all peeled back..  owner was like.. "I can't leave it on over the weekend.." are you f'en kidden me..!! took 5 hours of flipping power switch on/off to get the machine back online and 3 days to get the part in.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 22, 2011, 07:48:03 PM
It was the servo controller. Basically it is  the computer that handles all the indexer parameters settings ect.  I could have shipped it and tried to have it repaired but there were no guarantees  it could be fixed. It may have cost half as much to go that route but time is money. I had them ship a new unit 2nd day air.  It is going to set me back a little over 2 grand. There goes the new computer.  :'(

I did get in about 30 minutes pool time.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: squeegee on July 22, 2011, 08:00:58 PM
I think if I were you, I'd still send in the old controller and see if it can be repaired or see if you can get it fixed elsewhere for less and keep it for backup.

There's nothing like the peace of mind of having a spare around for the next time.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: spotcolorsupply on July 22, 2011, 08:22:29 PM
I think if I were you, I'd still send in the old controller and see if it can be repaired or see if you can get it fixed elsewhere for less and keep it for backup.

There's nothing like the peace of mind of having a spare around for the next time.
Definately a good idea!!
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: DraginInk on July 22, 2011, 09:11:59 PM
It was the servo controller. Basically it is the computer that handles all the indexer parameters settings ect.  I could have shipped it and tried to have it repaired but there were no guarantees  it could be fixed. It may have cost half as much to go that route but time is money. I had them ship a new unit 2nd day air.  It is going to set me back a little over 2 grand. There goes the new computer.  :'(

I did get in about 30 minutes pool time.


Sounds to me like the new computer is on its way...

Sorry to hear bad sh!t Donnie. Glad you won't be down for to long...
Now GET IN THE POOL!
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 22, 2011, 09:57:36 PM
I think if I were you, I'd still send in the old controller and see if it can be repaired or see if you can get it fixed elsewhere for less and keep it for backup.

There's nothing like the peace of mind of having a spare around for the next time.

I was thinking about that.

Now GET IN THE POOL!

I didn't have to think about that.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 25, 2011, 07:25:34 PM
Update... installed the controller. Still f*cked.  The only other problem could be short in cables OR the servo motor. Over nighted both. Got a deadline Wed.  This is getting on the EDGE.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: JBLUE on July 25, 2011, 07:50:00 PM
Damn that sucks. Thats getting spendy.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: rmonks on July 25, 2011, 09:38:52 PM
I know the fear, I am a weekend printer, and I am redundant out the butt! two auto presses, two dryers, two exposure units, four ink jet printers, and only ONE of me. I'm screwed if I go out.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 25, 2011, 10:47:55 PM
Another turn in the story... Got a call from Randy at OTS who was in on the tech call with Anatol. He went through his notes and told me to check one more thing. The proximity switch on the indexer.  I tested it with a screw driver and it worked, however when I manually rolled the indexer fork past it, it did not light up. The switch was working but it was not bouncing or recognizing the edge of the fork every time. Turns out the proximity somehow had move back just enough to break contact.  There was no way to adjust it foreward or back, until I noticed a shim under the bracket mount. Removed the shim but it made contact. I jimmied some washers under it and damned if it didn't work. I had to reset the homing distance but Got the SOB going Apollo 13 style.  Got some minor tweaking left but it Looks like some expensive parts are headed back. :D
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: spotcolorsupply on July 25, 2011, 10:57:41 PM
Another turn in the story... Got a call from Randy at OTS who was in on the tech call with Anatol. He went through his notes and told me to check one more thing. The proximity switch on the indexer.  I tested it with a screw driver and it worked, however when I manually rolled the indexer fork past it, it did not light up. The switch was working but it was not bouncing or recognizing the edge of the fork every time. Turns out the proximity somehow had move back just enough to break contact.  There was no way to adjust it foreward or back, until I noticed a shim under the bracket mount. Removed the shim but it made contact. I jimmied some washers under it and damned if it didn't work. I had to reset the homing distance but Got the SOB going Apollo 13 style.  Got some minor tweaking left but it Looks like some expensive parts are headed back. :D
Randy is an Anatol GOD!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Northland on July 25, 2011, 11:08:20 PM
Nice to know.... I've got servo index on my Anatol.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: mk162 on July 25, 2011, 11:24:55 PM
I am surprised that nobody mentioned that before.  that is the first thing i check, either at the switch, or at the blinking light on the PLC.

i've even had the wires get pinched and shut the whole machine down.  that was a rush, trust me.

the million $ question is who pays the air freight?
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Shawn (EIP) on July 25, 2011, 11:33:57 PM
only ONE of me. I'm screwed if I go out.

Yup I know the feeling... I fear being sick because I know those jobs will be waiting for me when I'm back on my feet, nothing like working double time coming off of being sick.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 25, 2011, 11:45:21 PM
the million $ question is who pays the air freight?

That is one of the things yet to be worked out.  Randy has been very helpful. He spent about 2 hours on the phone. If I am up and running minus the expensive parts..they way I look at it freight seems pretty trivial at this point.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: alan802 on July 26, 2011, 08:47:01 AM
I am surprised the proximity switch wasn't the first thing troubleshooted.  On our old centurian, that's the first place we always looked and 90% of the time, it was a failed proxy switch.  The only issue we've had with our press was a failed proxy sensor on the table up/down.  I had the problem solved before I called Rick but he walked me through putting the spare part on, which was very easy.

In my short time in this industry and around these machines, it seems that proximity sensors are the highest failure part, at least it has been for us on 2 machines.  I'm sure someone who's got more experience with these machines might disagree with me, but out of the dozen or so issues our centurian had over the years, 9 or 10 of them were from a bad proxy sensor.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 26, 2011, 09:40:45 AM
Come to think of it, I did ask the proxy question first off.
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Sbrem on July 26, 2011, 11:10:03 AM
2 autos for a weekend printer? Holy cow...

Steve
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: inkbrigade on July 27, 2011, 06:38:40 AM
the million $ question is who pays the air freight?

That is one of the things yet to be worked out.  Randy has been very helpful. He spent about 2 hours on the phone. If I am up and running minus the expensive parts..they way I look at it freight seems pretty trivial at this point.

Sounds like you owe randy a nice 6 pack ;)
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on July 28, 2011, 10:40:55 PM
After we got things going, I am getting this nice little shudder or grind when it indexes.  This was not there before so something is still not right.  I made this little vid to give Randy an ideal what I am hearing. He calls and thinks the  lifter is rubbing on the carousal. A little grease should do the trick. Nope. So we run through a number of potential culprits. All to no avail. We both decide to sleep on it. He calls me back and tells me to mess with the indexer acceleration setting. Now we have all ready cut it from 16,000 rpm (factory setting) to 8,000. We go back up to 16,000 and holy sh!t! Then we go to down to 5,000. No noise.  Now we are thinking that perhaps when the proximity switch failed and the indexer sled rammed against the motor housing it may have buggered the indexer screw some. At 5,000 it is still dry indexing at 69 dozen per hour. Still plenty fast. I am hoping that by slowing the acceleration down the screw will last indefinitely.  Randy said that there is no reason to index a machine at 16,000 and he recommends setting it to 8,000.  Food for thought just in case this ever happens with your machine.

I removed the shim from the indexer bracket mount. That is what is laying on the floor.


Anatol.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-XZOl-ZdF8#ws)
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: mk162 on July 29, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
I agree, running your equipment at it's max speed wears it out and your printers out faster.

My car does 120, but that doesn't mean I always drive that fast.  ;D
Title: Re: Well Shirt!
Post by: Artelf2xs on July 29, 2011, 10:36:10 PM
Well sh!t Donnie.. count your blessings!!! it's be even worse  if you did not sh!t well!  ;D
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: IntegrityShirts on August 01, 2011, 11:05:11 AM
Yikes that does sound weird.  Did Randy suggest taking the top plate off and inspecting bolts for tightness or oil for metal shavings?  I know on my Trident that the sight window is pitch black, not sure of the interval for oil changes on these screws.  Being the tinkerer that I am, on a Saturday lol, I'd pull the top plate and fork off and inspect the screw for wear or metal shavings or burrs.

Upon looking at spiderpromo's page on the servo indexer tear-down, it appears there's also a linear rail in that oil bath.  When you said it knocked the sled out of its track that would make me wonder whether it also may have shaken/sheared a bolt or two down below, but I'm no expert!

Oh, and that is a darn pricey servo controller, yikes!  That area of these presses is where the big buck repairs lie!
Title: Re: Well Sh!t!
Post by: Donnie on August 01, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
I checked the oil in the indexer. It was full and what ran out did not appear to have any shavings. We are suspecting the noise to be from the "knuckle" or the pin that travels along the screw and not the screw itself. But as I said, the noise is very minimal at 5,000. BUT if I get a week of downtime. I may send it in. I don't like "wandering" about "sh!t that could happen".