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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: billf on November 13, 2013, 09:29:53 AM
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Dear Screen Print Community, please beware of equipment broker Don Fenno. I am the owner of a medium sized screen print shop and have been burned badly by this guy. Without going into great detail, Don sold me a press that didn't work, took the press back, and kept my money. Furthermore, had an attorney send me a letter to stop harassing him to recover our money. We are currently pursuing legal action and while doing so have learned that this isn't the first time Don Fenno aka Don Fenno Enterprises has been involved in this sort of situation. Please beware. I can be contacted via e-mail regarding any questions to this matter.
Regards,
Bill Finn, CEO
Classic Shirts Inc.
billf@classicshirts.com
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Dear Screen Print Community, please beware of equipment broker Don Fenno. I am the owner of a medium sized screen print shop and have been burned badly by this guy. Without going into great detail, Don sold me a press that didn't work, took the press back, and kept my money. Furthermore, had an attorney send me a letter to stop harassing him to recover our money. We are currently pursuing legal action and while doing so have learned that this isn't the first time Don Fenno aka Don Fenno Enterprises has been involved in this sort of situation. Please beware. I can be contacted via e-mail regarding any questions to this matter.
Regards,
Bill Finn, CEO
Classic Shirts Inc.
billf@classicshirts.com
I wonder if there is two sides to this story and there usually is. I always seen Don Fenno depicted as a reputable broker.
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woah! I have dealt with Don many times, nothing but great things to say about him! Mike's right, I wonder what the story is?
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Dear Screen Print Community, please beware of equipment broker Don Fenno. I am the owner of a medium sized screen print shop and have been burned badly by this guy. Without going into great detail, Don sold me a press that didn't work, took the press back, and kept my money. Furthermore, had an attorney send me a letter to stop harassing him to recover our money. We are currently pursuing legal action and while doing so have learned that this isn't the first time Don Fenno aka Don Fenno Enterprises has been involved in this sort of situation. Please beware. I can be contacted via e-mail regarding any questions to this matter.
Regards,
Bill Finn, CEO
Classic Shirts Inc.
billf@classicshirts.com
Forgive me for asking such a stupid question. But why would you allow him to take back the press without your money returned??
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Welcome to the forum.
Nice first post BTW! I wonder what made up you mind so you decided to join?
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I have nothing but good things to say about Don. In fact, he once paid me to check out a machine he sold to a customer who said it did not work. Turns out staff had never run an auto and could barely figure out how to turn it on. Not to say crap didn't go down sideways that sometimes happens but a guy like Don doesn't stay in business as long as he has without doing business with everyones best intentions in mind.
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We have also both bought and sold through him and have never had any problems.
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I don't believe my last post went through but I will respond once to what I have seen so far from everyone and then I'm out, I am not debating just informing my fellow printers of what I went through.
1. I worked with Don in the past and it went well too.
2. I returned the press because M&R flagged it as junk and recommended I do so. Previous dealings with Don had me believe I'd have no issue recovering our money.
3. The other side of the story is Don is claiming it was destroyed during the move. A claim M&R knows to be untrue.
4. Regarding the guy that looked at a press and they didn't know how to turn it on. Our M&R tech can build a Formula never mind turn one on.
5. If you think I'm full of it, contact M&R, they suggested I post to this site.
Again I'm out, I just felt it was my duty to report this. If you love Don, carry on, I'm sure he's done some good things for a lot of people. I am just not one of them.
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4. Regarding the guy that looked at a press and they didn't know how to turn it on. Our M&R tech can build a Formula never mind turn one on.
and even with a super hero tech at your disposal you still unknowingly buy a POS press... there must be more to this story
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The press was sold as fully functional and inspected. I trusted Don as I had dealt with him in the past. I don't have a tech at my disposal, I have to pay M&R substantially like everyone else to travel and didn't feel it was necessary.
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and then I'm out,
That doesn't help anyone. If you "are out" it just makes you sound like you are hiding something or you don't want to get into the full story. I could be and often times are totally wrong, but seems like a flag to me. I don't know this Don fellow, and actually never heard of him so I have no horse in the race, just trying to point out to you what it may come across like.
If it was a bad press, I'm sure Rich will hop in here and defend you.
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Just rubber necking here , but this looks to be a good one, I will say some times airing out stuff on the forum is not good and only causes more grief, but will will see.
Darryl
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Just rubber necking here , but this looks to be a good one, I will say some times airing out stuff on the forum is not good and only causes more grief, but will will see.
Darryl
Darryl, you know I worship every word you type ;) but I have to disagree here. I think a forum is a GREAT place to try to settle it! As long as it doesn't get out of hand, it really puts the pressure on the parties to solve things when it is in the public(target market) eyes. But putting up a post and leaving, isn't going to get anything done. As long as all involved don't get catty, I think a lot of learning can come from a public exchange.
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I bought Amscomatic K-840 folder from Don Fenno and it was OK.
I also bought two Kool Mist stations within the same deal. In the crate there were two M&R Annamisters. The old ones, that attach to Press.. Useless stuff.
He many times promised to send me the Kool Mists, and it never happened. It's now four years and I slowly got over it and forgot about 1500$. It's more difficult for me from Europe to chase down somebody, who is actually 6-8 hours behind me.... How do I catch him? ;) Running back in time?
But seriously we all screw up from time to time. Some clean up their mess and some don't. And for Don to clean a mess with gay from Europe. Eh, he is far away...
Don said he didn't know as a broker, what was crated.. I believe him. But it doesn't clear him responsibility.
Boris
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He didn't know what was crated because he never actually sees what he sells. He plays matchmaker and when it goes bad, which fortunately hasn't happened to some people on this message board, he washes his hands of the situation.
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It appears to me that when buying "a mechanical pig in a poke", credit cards and the protection they afford, would be one way to protect oneself.
Realizing that many purchases exceed a card's limit, are there any escrow services that offer a similar protection? Is PayPal an option?
The peace of mind could certainly be worth 3% additional.
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Just rubber necking here , but this looks to be a good one, I will say some times airing out stuff on the forum is not good and only causes more grief, but will will see.
Darryl
Darryl, you know I worship every word you type ;) but I have to disagree here. I think a forum is a GREAT place to try to settle it! As long as it doesn't get out of hand, it really puts the pressure on the parties to solve things when it is in the public(target market) eyes. But putting up a post and leaving, isn't going to get anything done. As long as all involved don't get catty, I think a lot of learning can come from a public exchange.
Alex if you worship what I type your in big trouble LOL, but I did say sometimes.
Darryl
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I have to pay M&R substantially like everyone else to travel and didn't feel it was necessary.
....and is that still your opinion?
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and then I'm out,
That doesn't help anyone. If you "are out" it just makes you sound like you are hiding something or you don't want to get into the full story. I could be and often times are totally wrong, but seems like a flag to me. I don't know this Don fellow, and actually never heard of him so I have no horse in the race, just trying to point out to you what it may come across like.
If it was a bad press, I'm sure Rich will hop in here and defend you.
The press in question on this deal was indeed a piece of scrap. Our Regional manager was at the company that was getting rid of the press he bought and the heads were being dragged away by their masterframe by a chain and fork lift. The press was trashed and our technician was hired for the install. Upon inspection of the machine our tech reported to management the press was trash and incapable of being installed. I dont want to get into specifics but this has happened before with presses Don Fenno sold as well as a couple of other used equipment brokers. The proper way to stop this in the future is to hire an M&R tech and not an independent to inspect the press prior to purchasing the unit. We have nothing to gain by telling you the press is fine just to get service work . I would suggest this for any brand you purchase used if the manufacturer is reliable! If not roll the dice and play where they lay!!
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What is the stated policy of this broker? (and brokers in general?)
Do they up front absolve themselves of responsibility and lay it all on the real seller?
Is there some sort of insurance that they can get to protect themselves from unscrupulous or dumb-ass sellers?
I have always felt that responsibility for delivering something as advertised goes along with a fee or mark-up.
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Sounds like a raw deal indeed. That is too bad.
billf do you have more details on why Mr. Fenno is not interested in returning your money? What were the terms of the contract?
Does anyone have Mr. Fenno's contact info? Maybe a email with a invite to join the conversation may help clear up the issue and help clear his name that now, in fact it kind of sounds like it may be a raw deal.
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Someone should should mention it to him that he's being drug through the mud here, legit or not.
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His website states the following under FAQ:
What kind of warranty do you offer?
We do not offer a warranty. We DO offer a guarantee that equipment purchased from us — and if technicians referred by us are used — will be in good working order prior to the technician leaving the customer’s facility
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Someone should should mention it to him that he's being drug through the mud here, legit or not.
he already knows....
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Now we are getting somewhere, this is a very interesting topic we all might can learn something from, some of us still buy used equipment and trust we are getting what we think we are paying for, and if not who's the blame for the raw deal.
Darryl
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It is not just used equipment you can get burned on. I agree it can/could be a good learning for people. I admit, I am one that only occasionally read the fine print ::)
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Thanks Rich, so sorry you had to become involved in this, but your points will be beneficial to equipment buyers in years to come. If prospective buyers of used equipment use a certified technician of that company to take apart and set up the equipment, these issues are non existent. There are multiple posts I could reply to but I think it's best we all move on. Hopefully some fellow printers will come away with something after all of this, which was my original and only intention.
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Bill I don't know what press you bought or money you spent, but I hope you can get some of it or all back, no one has money to throw around, and right now it looks like Don should look at what he he selling. If he is not going to do that then he IMHO takes responsibility for any equipment he sells, if not I can sell people junk all day and not take a risk, just pocket money.
Darryl
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This is just another cruel blow to the used equipment industry. Even though I totally respect those of you who have stated you had a great experience with this broker, I've seen enough from Boris and Rich and the new guy to form a very solid opinion on who is wrong. The press was junk from the beginning, and even though we now know he should have had it inspected in the very beginning, there is a certain amount of trust you have to give people. Where do you draw the line on how far you trust the broker? In hindsight it's easy to critisize and tell the guy he made a huge mistake, I don't think it's our place to tell him how he should have been thinking at the time. How many of you that have done business with this broker and had a good experience would have hired an M&R tech to go check out the machine? How many of you would hire a third party to come inspect our RPM before you sent me a check for half of it? I bet the majority of you would buy it because you trust me, and that's what I mean by not being too critical of this man's mistake. I don't think someone should have to lose thousands of dollars to learn a lesson from an equipment broker. But way too many times lately we see this going on.
Just one more off the list of brokers that you don't have to worry about. I think Rich's words speak volumes on this little matter and this broker.
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If you are going to "BROKER" a deal, then you better have some eyes/boots on the ground to make sure you are repping good equipment.
If all you do is see pictures, then you should put the people in contact and TRUST the seller to give you a finders fee... if you can't trust the seller to give you a finder's fee then how the F can you trust him to be telling you the up and up on the equipment he is having you sell?!
You do the leg work on the sell then you have a hand in the sell... better make sure they are clean!
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If you are going to "BROKER" a deal, then you better have some eyes/boots on the ground to make sure you are repping good equipment.
If all you do is see pictures, then you should put the people in contact and TRUST the seller to give you a finders fee... if you can't trust the seller to give you a finder's fee then how the F can you trust him to be telling you the up and up on the equipment he is having you sell?!
You do the leg work on the sell then you have a hand in the sell... better make sure they are clean!
Exactly. We agree on this one.
They want the money from the sale but often want no responsibility when it goes south. Can't have it both ways. Many brokers never see more than a few pictures I suspect.
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I prefer to work with brokers that are also techs. A tech that I have a working relationship with. They probably have a better of idea of what they are looking at and they will usually be the one called in to maintain the press if a buyer is happy with them.
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They want the money from the sale but often want no responsibility when it goes south. Can't have it both ways.
Completely agree. My problem with this is that, if I purchase gear from a broker, it's on them to deliver as described. The transaction is between us and the broker. I don't care what happens with their seller, that's why I'm using a broker, paying not to worry about it. If they erred and had a bunk seller or didn't bother to check out the product and junk equipment arrives well, they don't get paid. In fact, they owe me for shipping or need to replace at their cost. Not too complicated here.
With used equipment, broker or no broker, it's important to never underestimate how ultimately stupid people can be regarding machinery.
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so far, I'm a little disappointed to see Don hasn't chimed in here......from these statements, Bill has a pretty strong case..sad to hear this...
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I know that I despise buying used equipment now after my own trashed press experience. My broker did nothing to make the situation better but a couple phone calls and a couple sorrys. I think as long as they get paid they could care less for the most part. Im either buying new next time around or if used it will be local/semi local.
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so far, I'm a little disappointed to see Don hasn't chimed in here......from these statements, Bill has a pretty strong case..sad to hear this...
I agree. I don't know the guy and have never heard of him. But if he has been notified(about this post) and hasn't chimed in, that says something about him. Like Alan said, cross another one off the list.
It is to bad, it would of been nice if "as a board" we couldn't of helped Bill out. Kind of like a screen printers mafia!:D
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I'm not exactly in the market, but who is a reputable dealer? Someone who HAS gone out of their way to fix a situation like this...
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As with many others, We purchased a piece of equipment from Don. Def. had iffy feelings at first, but he pulled through, and we got what we paid for, and still use it to this day.
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For me unless it's small money say under 5k we would go see it in person and buy or not buy on the spot.
I have bought used equipment both in person and sight unseen. I haven't had any terrible thing happen but the sight unseen stuff is always slightly worse than described or thought to be. In person you can get a really good feeling of a lot of things. The person using it, the space it was used in, the way it was cared for based on how everything else in the place looks and so on. There will be lots of clues to what you are buying if you go see it in person.
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I'm not exactly in the market, but who is a reputable dealer? Someone who HAS gone out of their way to fix a situation like this...
Bill Foust and of course Winston Strickland :) :) :)
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winston is great to work with.
I think we are lucky down here to have some great techs/brokers. I would buy equipment in a heartbeat from the following(more than likely sight unseen if they checked it out)
Winston, Brannon, or Sieggy in no particular order. I've known all 3 for a while, Sieggy since I was probably 14 or 15 years old. Brannon since his days back at Freedom Supply and I've only known Winston for a couple years, but people like him are the reason I love this industry.
No offense to anybody that I left off.
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I have also done business with Bill Foust and it went well. I've actually seen him in a situation that didn't go his way and work like heck to make it right.
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billf speaking praises about Bill Foust...Hmmmmmmmmmmmm :P
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I'm not exactly in the market, but who is a reputable dealer? Someone who HAS gone out of their way to fix a situation like this...
Bill Foust and of course Winston Strickland :) :) :)
I've only ever talked to Winston, but Bill Foust i can back hard. He has helped us several times with little weird parts.
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billf speaking praises about Bill Foust...Hmmmmmmmmmmmm :P
You're barking up the wrong tree on this one.
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twas a joke...
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twas a joke...
Unfortunately, many of us have gone through major forum combat with a few individuals who considered that practice perfectly acceptable and S.O.P.
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winston is great to work with.
I think we are lucky down here to have some great techs/brokers. I would buy equipment in a heartbeat from the following(more than likely sight unseen if they checked it out)
Winston, Brannon, or Sieggy in no particular order. I've known all 3 for a while, Sieggy since I was probably 14 or 15 years old. Brannon since his days back at Freedom Supply and I've only known Winston for a couple years, but people like him are the reason I love this industry.
No offense to anybody that I left off.
Thanks bud!! ;D
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I think I painted my broker experience in a bad light. Bill Foust did offer to replace any parts that were damaged by the freight company so that is a great thing. I think the question is what should brokers responsibilities be? Should they take care of all 4 steps from inspection, teardown, crating and shipping? I know Bill takes care of the first 3. But should shipping also be on the backs of the broker? I know there are plenty of brokers out there that dont even do the first 3 and only collect money. What should it be? All I can say is if I would not have purchased insurance for the freight I would have been out over $8000. As it is I am still out $2000 but I guess thats the price you pay buying used equipment from across the country. I have talked with Bill yesterday as he called me out on my post and I really dont have anything against him, I think he is one of the good brokers, I just think my situation just plain old stank.
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A good broker does what it takes to keep his name good and repeat business, unless there one of those that like to stick people and run and hide until there next victim comes alone.
Darryl
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I think I painted my broker experience in a bad light. Bill Foust did offer to replace any parts that were damaged by the freight company so that is a great thing. I think the question is what should brokers responsibilities be? Should they take care of all 4 steps from inspection, teardown, crating and shipping? I know Bill takes care of the first 3. But should shipping also be on the backs of the broker? I know there are plenty of brokers out there that dont even do the first 3 and only collect money. What should it be? All I can say is if I would not have purchased insurance for the freight I would have been out over $8000. As it is I am still out $2000 but I guess thats the price you pay buying used equipment from across the country. I have talked with Bill yesterday as he called me out on my post and I really dont have anything against him, I think he is one of the good brokers, I just think my situation just plain old stank.
A good broker will cover at least the first 3... We just brokered a diamondback L and we did not take care of the shipping. There was very little money in the deal so we left that up to the customer. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it is stated before the deal is closed.
We always recommend the customer purchase insurance, if they choose not to, it’s on them. I can’t be held liable because they want to be a cheap a$$.
Speaking from experience, brokering is a huge PITA, that was the first broker deal we have done in almost a year. I prefer selling equipment off of my floor.
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The whole situation just left a bad taste in my mouth. And seeing others like Gilligans embroidery machine get trashed just makes me not want to buy large used equipment anymore unless its in my local area. Would I buy from Bill Foust again? Probably but nothing large like a press again unless its real close to me and I can go pick it up myself.
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I'd honestly rather take the 500+ bucks I would spend on shipping and borrow a trailer/uhaul and pay the gas to drive to pick up stuff out of state rather than pay a shipping company. There are sooooooo many terrible freight companies and very few good ones, and even the good ones typically have high turnover when it comes to drivers and your equipment is only as safe as their driver cares for it to be.
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I have to think that the quality of crating must be a major factor as well.
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Gerry, Thanks for the clarification. I always try to get customers to inspect prior to purchase and to rent a truck and take the machine on the road (KY to CA would be crazy for an $8k machine). Truck drivers don't care whether they are hauling eggs or t-shirts, they drive the same way. The problem with your load was likely at the freight terminals, the guys that transfer loads from one truck to another get paid to be fast (again eggs or t-shirts).
You need to weigh the amount of money you are spending against the cost of inspection and taking time to drive (or have someone you trust drive the equipment to you). I don't think you can expect the broker to be responsible for the truck line, this is why they (truck lines) sell insurance. I seriously doubt any new machine damaged in transit would be covered by the manufacturer. The drivers for truck lines are getting to be more and more particular about the way items are crated and have refused loads because they packaging doesn't meet the carrier's standards. Once they accept the load, it is on them to get it delivered undamaged.
Spending money without looking is a decision for the buyer, all a seller can do is make recommendations. If you are spending $10k without looking, that is a risk for you to weigh against the time it would consume to inspect. If you are spending $50k+ without looking (or having someone you trust look) you are either a fool or very well off and money is not important to you.
I have dealt with Don F and Bill F on more than one occasion and not had problems with with either guy.
I have learned over the years that every seller thinks his equipment is cherry, 95% of the time they are wrong. On some occasions they are flat out lying and they know the machine is junk.
I am not the BillF that started this thread. ???
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I have had only good dealings with Don Fenno. I can't vouche for all his dealings, but he has done well for me both buying and selling. He puts buyers with sellers, he doesn't add anything more or less in that equation from what I see. You can get good deals but you can get burned.
If you want a broker that stands by the equipment, that means they are a techie or have techies. It also means they probably have to take in the equipment, check it out, maybe do some refurbishing and then sell it. Duh, that costs a great deal more.
In any case, unless you know the person well, you have to check out the equipment yourself, or send someone on your behalf.
One last warning is that trucking companies have low low low amounts they pay if they damage used equipment. You take a huge risk as they pay almost nothing. Go get it yourself or take a big risk if it is breakable.
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Hello my name is Junior I own a screen printing and embroidery company in southern California
I have a business partner name ray also we are reaching out to warm people about a machine broker
That goes by the name “Don Fenno” we made a deal with him a few months ago with a machine that
He was going to get us for 70,000 so we wired him 63,000 to his account well it’s been more than 2 months
He told us that the machine owner did not want to sell his machine anymore so we ask for out money back
Now he is just giving us the run around with lies after lies at this point we are starting a lawsuit against him
And will be posting on all forums about what he has done to us and others we recently talk to another person
That he has done this to.. Don't know if this will help me recover my money but at least warn people of the kind
Of business man that he is a lier a thief.. We are honest and hard working people that are only trying to better our
Company .. I know a lot of people might not agree and thinks he is a honorable and honest man but we
Have plenty of prof contracts and email from him to prove it...
Please don’t be the next person that this happens to
Don't trust don fenno
And for the record it was Steve Vermillion who recommended him who know will not answer our calls...
Thanks for taking the time to read this ...
Junior Vice President
Ray President
www.bestinkandthread.com (http://www.bestinkandthread.com)
jr@bestinkandthread.com
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I didn't realize that Don had this reputation, I found his site online and contacted in the search for our new press. He contacted me the next day, so he's still on the grind. Glad I stumbled upon this post.
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Welcome to Don Fenno Enterprises
Posted on April 8, 2013 by Fenno Enterprises
Don Fenno Enterprises, LLC has been assisting customers in the garment decorating equipment business for over 20 years. We strive to find and represent those pieces of equipment that give the customer the best value for their purchases. We follow up with close client contact — before, during and after each transaction — to make sure the customer is completely satisfied.
We deal in new and used equipment to meet our customer’s ongoing operating needs. We also have a toll-free number 888-291-8116 to insure constant availability of our resources for our clients.
This is directly off his site,with the exception of me changing the font color. I've never bought or sold from him, so I can offer no opinions
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One more thought... I bought a laser cutter from China, and they only accepted wire transfers.
I remember the facial expression of the girl working at Money Mart when I told her I was there to send a lot of cash to someone in China. She strongly suggested that I rethink this... but I was confident. I had done my homework and found supplier that had a reputation they had been building for a few years on a forum. They had their problems, but every time an issue was posted the OP had responded to the thread saying that this company had helped them though the issue and had resolved it. They relied on that reputation for sales. I knew that if they screwed me, I would have 13 thousand reasons to drag them through the mud and cost them more than that in the long run. The laser came, it worked, I had a few pieces replaced under warranty, {Overnight DHL BTW. Great followup service} and I would gladly recommend them to anyone looking to buy machinery.
I hate seeing that in this industry there are people who disappear after conflict and then be sure to call new potential clients within a day of an email. How many of us would still have T shirt shops if we acted like that? Yes I hate when I, or one of my guys makes a mistake. But we act honourably and resolve the issue, even if it ends up costing us. Maybe thats why were busier than ever before.
Hopefully this thread marks the start of a brokers reputation being valued by the brokers themselves.
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Welcome to Don Fenno Enterprises
Posted on April 8, 2013 by Fenno Enterprises
Don Fenno Enterprises, LLC has been assisting customers in the garment decorating equipment business for over 20 years. We strive to find and represent those pieces of equipment that give the customer the best value for their purchases. We follow up with close client contact — before, during and after each transaction — to make sure the customer is completely satisfied.
We deal in new and used equipment to meet our customer’s ongoing operating needs. We also have a toll-free number 888-291-8116 to insure constant availability of our resources for our clients.
This is directly off his site,with the exception of me changing the font color. I've never bought or sold from him, so I can offer no opinions
Not passing judgement on Don (though forewarned is forearmed) but has anyone ever heard of a con man or crook, or even a generally honest guy who has fallen onto hard times) publishing something in their listing like "While we try to do right by you, say goodbye to your hard-earned money if something screws up or we incur unexpected expenses as we don't have the resources to cover it"
I wonder if anywhere this profession offers licensing and/or the need for bonding or insurance to protect against this sort of thing. That way, at least if one chooses an unlicensed broker, it's buyer beware. Apparently, for the most part, it's buyer beware in general!
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Welcome to Don Fenno Enterprises
Posted on April 8, 2013 by Fenno Enterprises
Don Fenno Enterprises, LLC has been assisting customers in the garment decorating equipment business for over 20 years. We strive to find and represent those pieces of equipment that give the customer the best value for their purchases. We follow up with close client contact — before, during and after each transaction — to make sure the customer is completely satisfied.
We deal in new and used equipment to meet our customer’s ongoing operating needs. We also have a toll-free number 888-291-8116 to insure constant availability of our resources for our clients.
This is directly off his site,with the exception of me changing the font color. I've never bought or sold from him, so I can offer no opinions
Not passing judgement on Don (though forewarned is forearmed) but has anyone ever heard of a con man or crook, or even a generally honest guy who has fallen onto hard times) publishing something in their listing like "While we try to do right by you, say goodbye to your hard-earned money if something screws up or we incur unexpected expenses as we don't have the resources to cover it"
I wonder if anywhere this profession offers licensing and/or the need for bonding or insurance to protect against this sort of thing. That way, at least if one chooses an unlicensed broker, it's buyer beware. Apparently, for the most part, it's buyer beware in general!
This is why I'm done with "brokers", "finders" or whatever they care to call themselves. Don't do business with me unless you can deliver what was purchased or at least operate as a legitimate business and refund the money/take care of the problem when you can't.
Nobody should give people working like this a dime. Most will hold on to it as Don here has no matter what happens- they're gambling on other deals with your cash and literally don't have it to give back. Others will hold your equipment after payment while their other client continues to use machinery that you now own. Not making that up, happened to us and while somebody used our dryer, we ate thousands in costs of moving and installing an old dryer and after all that are still out a few grand. This happened with one of the "good" brokers.
Move on and find your used deal direct from sellers or go with a legitimate business that takes in and refurbs machines.
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i notice that a lot of people defend don fenno like he is a good broker and a honest man i read some of bill post and don fenno from my experience is the worst .. here is my story and pending i purchase a 14 color sportsman 2012 that i never even got to see and never got anything at all he said that the seller back out of the deal after after 2 weeks that he had my money already so he promise to refund our money since the deal went bad so after calling him and calling him we manage to get 9,000 back it is going on almost 3 months and we still get the lies that the money is on the way that he wired it and is is stuck on paypal i really don't know if we will ever get our money back but at least i can warn people about what kind of person he really is... i know on the past posting you did not really believe bill on what he said but if you send me a email or wish to call i can send you contract e-mail's and wire transfer and picture's of the machine to prove what a person he really is and also i notice every person i talk to about him have never even seen the guy or know what he looks like... if you defend him then keep doing business with him and eventually you will be in my shoes i am just warning people about him new or old to the industry and people that are thinking of dealing with him so they don't end up like me and manny others... thanks
junior
jr@bestinkandthread.com
909-947-5507
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Right now, I don't know that there is a single good broker out there, I've heard horror stories about all of them, even the few that are known to be honest. Seems like they all operate on a ponzi scheme type system and they don't have any operating cash to buy things. They can only buy a piece of equipment with the customer's money and they don't have anything of their own for when things go bad. Any profit they make doesn't seem to go back into the business they're trying to run, who knows where it goes. I don't think it's an easy business to run, and the only way to do it the right way involves a "trust, but verify" approach and you need a good bit of operating cash to secure equipment and not rely on deposits to come in from other deals to pay for a deal that should already be squared away. It's true, this part of the industry attracts a certain, less-than-desirable type of person and very few, if any are honest, hard-working individuals.
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I'm gonna go on record saying Bill Foust has always been up front, and done right by us.
We've also dealt with Don, and we didn't have a horrible experience, but that's still super scary to lose that much.
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well i been trying to call don fenno to get my money which he promise yesterday to make a payment no answer just goes to show what type of guy he is before he got our money he showed a lot of interest call 2 to 3 times a day and email on a daily basis now does not call back we have to call him several and if we are lucky he will text us that he is in a meeting. then he waits to the end of the day and tells us the same lies the money is on the way i am sure those of you who have been burn by this so call honorable man knows what i am talking about..
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That cat (Don Fenno) has used your money to pay his bill's and to get into other deals in hoping he can ( like playing a card game) get ahead or break even, he might have all the best intentions in the world in getting you your cash back but right now I'm 100% sure your money is like a horse race he's letting it ride :(
darryl
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Hear so many deals like this. Clearly screen printers are just not doing the due diligence on someone before sending them huge dollar figures. There is no advantage most of these "brokers" offer. Most of them never so much as see the equipment let alone have any business representing it.
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Thinking back some 13 years or so....Mr. Fenno was on me for months wanting to buy my dear old Gauntlet. Now I wonder if he already had it sold. :o
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Why do they call them "brokers"? Because, deal with the wrong one and you can end up a lot "broker" than you started out!
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I've said before and will say again that Bill Faust has always been an upright dude with us but we've only done smaller transactions for parts. I think he operates a little differently than the others and has an actual, bona fide parts business to support the brokerage side.
Still, I'm now firmly in the mindset that if someone doesn't actually own the item I'm buying I don't want to talk to them about it.
A question for those burned by brokers- did you have a bill of sale? Not that it helps much if someone is broke and evading you but never, never, never do a used equip transaction without one.
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Frog: lol i needed that with all the crap that i am dealing with this liar and crook : anyways i did get a text from Don Fenno a bit ago that the bank closed i honestly am not surprise that is why i went ahead and told my attorney to start the process just don't have the time to listen to anymore or his lies. i am tired of trying to be nice and this guy does not care since he never has time we will make sure he makes time.. well thanks for all the support and for hearing me out like i said i hope nobody falls for his so called kindness and gets screw. i am also thinking of doing a huge e-mail blast with a marketing company to all screen printing shop's so they are also aware of don fenno cause i know a lot of people like me don't think about checking forums till something like this happens.
thanks
Junior
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I bought a press from him and had absolutely no problems what so ever. When it arrived some of the flash bulbs were broken and he replaced them no questions asked. I did not even have to send him pictures. He replaced every part on the press that I asked for. I am a picky bastard. My presses have no air leaks and he replaced every thing that had a leak. For those of you that know a lot of fittings that never leaked when a press was together leak after it is pulled apart and put back together. The pallet rubber was not to my liking and I had a new roll here in a couple of days. None of which was charged to me or my lender. Now I did not give him the money a funding company gave it to him. Thats why you should use a lender instead of going out of pocket. They have a lot more power than a single business owner. You start flaking on those guys and your pretty much done.
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It's a shame you see it happen all the time, people getting jerked around buying equipment. That being said it should not matter if your buying new from a large company or used from a dealer or broker a contract needs to be drawn up for the deal. Have everything spelled out. This helps protect the seller and buyer. If your dropping $20k or more on a piece if equipment another $500 to have it drawn up shouldn't break you.
Another red flag is the broker needing the whole amount up front. Even if you do get the machine and let's say it doesn't work you have little leverage to have it made right once the money is paid. I would hope the seller or broker would make it right.
After chasing your money for 30 days I would have gotten the attorney involved. Being a deal across state lines and more then $20k it could be seen a fraud and a federal offense, a good lawyer will remind him of that and usually gets things resolved real quick.
Jblue brings up a good point of going through a lender or leasing company. Even if you have the cash it's another level of security, pay it off early. I have moved a few machines that were purchased through a leasing company and they wouldn't release the money until I and the buyer signed off.
It's a hard lesson and hind sight is always 20/20 but at the very least it will prepare you for the next time.
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thanks for all the advice believe me i will not for that again and i will look and talk to my lawyer about the fraud and a federal offense deal..
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Since my post about Don I've received dozens of calls of situations very similar to mine and Junior's and some much worse. My only advice to each of them is to post online about it so others don't get screwed. Most of the people I speak to chose not to under the concern that it's going to harm pending litigation. Whomever said something about a horse race is exactly right, Junior's money is now part of his Ponzi scheme and he's attempting to cover up another worse situation. Nothing like good ole $63K cash injection for free at someone else's expense. I honestly don't know how Don is not in jail yet. It won't be long.
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If you are saving big money by buying used over new, you should spend some of that money on a third party technician for an "in person" inspection. I am not defending Don, I don't know all the facts. I am defending the broker as an option, real money can be saved and a great deal can be had. I deal with a few other brokers on machines that we have clients in need of, a select few are honest and will do everything humanly possible to make everyone a winner in a used equipment deal.
For the brokered deal to come out well some effort on the buyer might be in order. I can describe the condition of a machine till I am "blue in the face" and send you pictures till my data plan is "over the limit", only you can be sure of what you are picturing in your head is what you rolls up in the delivery truck. In a lot of cases the money isn't big enough to merit the time from the buyer or the expense of out side technician (third party) on site inspection. When the money gets large enough you need to keep control of the deal as the buyer. Any Broker that doesn't want you or your representative to to do a pre-purchase inspection/or be on site when the truck loads and payment in finalized is hiding something.
I have dealt with "bill f" and it went well. The machine I purchased was rough but was not beyond repair, however I inspected it before buying and paid after that inspection (went into the deal with my eyes open).
Paying "Up Front" is up to you, $50k for new 10 color press with some hold back or $20k for a used one. New machines break and have issues, so do used ones. Is the 10% you get hold back on that new press a "warm and fuzzy"? When January comes (and that sweet little lease payment also) is the machine you could afford or the one that you overspent on, going be in your shop in June?
This situation has no easy answers, not all brokers are thieves, not all deals are good. You as a buyer (the guy with the money) are driving the bus, take control... keep it out of the ditch. "Google" people (brokers), ask vendors, ask competitors, ask anyone that you can think of. Yes their are rats masquerading as brokers, but not all brokers are rats. It's called Due Diligence, take the initiative to protect your hard earned money. If you are thinking of buying from someone and all you have to go by is the name they are presenting to world on these message boards, send me an e-mail (ch54panel@yahoo.com) I will tell you the guy's actual name and you can do the research (I am pretty sure I know all of them).
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i agree with you 100% like anybody else i am not perfect i was looking for a machine put out the word like anybody else would to anybody that i knew almost just went new and a local broker by the name of steve vermillion refer me to a broker name don fenno the deal sounded so good we jump on it because steve keep telling us that don is a real stand up guy that he is a real good person so i went with what steve told us and we have know steve for many years so we trusted him and made the deal that is why we did not look to much into it.. but to this day steve still swears by don but now i think they where both in it to screw with me and my shop and like anybody else i know they both can see these post and look how they don't defend each other or even themselves i have all the fact's just don't have my money i will keep warning people about these 2 guys because i don't think is right and they give brokers a bad name... the good thing is that are shop is still running strong i don't think they will be... anybody that is wanting to know real information about this couple of guys steve and don fenno i have plenty of facts text and proof so that you don't end up like me...
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You are certainly justified, I know people that would get f&#$%$g violent over $63k.
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i agree but we are pursuing other avenues
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You are certainly justified, I know people that would get f&#$%$g violent over $63k.
I know people that would kill people for less than 63k... That's not a small amount of money period.
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You are certainly justified, I know people that would get f&#$%$g violent over $63k.
I know people that would kill people for less than 63k... That's not a small amount of money period.
Agreed.
Mr. Fenno had the time to give me a call today about my equipment needs.... I immediately brought up this thread.
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You are certainly justified, I know people that would get f&#$%$g violent over $63k.
I know people that would kill people for less than 63k... That's not a small amount of money period.
Agreed.
Mr. Fenno had the time to give me a call today about my equipment needs.... I immediately brought up this thread.
...and he said?
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Yes, what DID he say?
Steve
I've bought used stuff a number of times, but not without checking it first, and I have a couple of good friends who can basically fix anything at all that you put in front of them...
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Confirmed it. Said he has a situation where another party owes him. How that has any relevance whatsoever to the op and the situation is beyond me.
Don't play with money that's not yours to play with.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Confirmed it. Said he has a situation where another party owes him. How that has any relevance whatsoever to the op and the situation is beyond me.
Don't play with money that's not yours to play with.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
So he's basically hiding from the situation. Epic.
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gross...
seriously people get kneecapped for a tenth as much.
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want to thank for all the support and people that email me personaly about their story and bad experiences they had with people like him i just wish people would post it so other's like me don't fall into this situation again well we did purchase a machine from m&r they read our story and reach out to us and help us out a lot with a new machine we are are still moving forward with our business but we are still working on a way to get our money back for sure that is way to much to walk away from but we will still reach out to people about don fenno and what he did to us and our company we will not stop steve vermillion till we get our money back i know you told us to stop posting about him but again your friend has not live up to his word you that guy you call a good business man anyways thanks for all the support and anybody dealing or thinking of don fenno i am willing to share all the proof you need so you don't get screw ...
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Confirmed it. Said he has a situation where another party owes him. How that has any relevance whatsoever to the op and the situation is beyond me.
Don't play with money that's not yours to play with.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
The two times I got stuck, I had waived the deposit (for local businesses that were re-ordering, and the owners were folks I knew from my kid's school)
They then came up with the same sad story of getting screwed or losing a big account, and now could not afford the order.
Apparently, some folks live and run their businesses hand-to-mouth, and have no reserves on which to fall back upon.
btw, both of these people finally came through, but it took a year!