TSB
Artist => General Art Discussions => Topic started by: dirkdiggler on November 14, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
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I have CS5 and now am starting to have trouble opening files. Can someone treat me like kid and explain to me the pros and cons of this cloud garbage? Looks like we don't have a choose anyway. Thanks in advance for the help.
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kind of think its a rip at $50.00 month Forever!
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Biggest downside to me is that "forever" part.
You create all this artwork and one day decide... I'm not paying you anymore... well now you just lost all of your artwork.
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pros: newest version, better font management, some fun scaling tools
cons: expensive, adobe just got hacked (lol)
related to the hacking incident, a friend of mines shop lost a significant amount of money due to not being able to access their stuff while adobe cleaned up the mess.
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Biggest downside to me is that "forever" part.
You create all this artwork and one day decide... I'm not paying you anymore... well now you just lost all of your artwork.
your artwork stays with you, it is not in the cloud unless you chose to have a copy on there too!
pierre
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CS6 is still available and is a viable option. We only received one CC file so far.
We have a full version of CS6 and a monthly subscription to the cloud, but did not upgrade as we would be running two different versions in the shop if we did. So CS6 it is for now. Then eventually it will be $100/month to keep going.
pierre
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Biggest downside to me is that "forever" part.
You create all this artwork and one day decide... I'm not paying you anymore... well now you just lost all of your artwork.
your artwork stays with you, it is not in the cloud unless you chose to have a copy on there too!
pierre
Right, but how do you open it?
When you BUY CS6, you have it to install FOREVER.
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Artwork requirement: Please save back to CS5.
Tell that to your customers.
If you still get a CC file, the TSB is here. Ask someone to save back.
I have CC at work (Full time job). We got only one copy for the files that come in as a CC so we could save back and work on CS6.
Done
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CC will automatically save down to the last 'grounded' version you still actually *have* on your computer so you can still use it. ;)
(Just kidding, they'd NEVER do that--at least by default.)
I'm sure they're working on rolling out new nifty 'effects' that can't be saved to older versions as we type...
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what a scam! Corel should step up their game and get people to switch. We probably never would, but if they did it right, some would.
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Honestly, I have little use for any of the new features in PS or AI, heck I could run PS 7 and be just fine. Presuming clients are asked to save back, and barring any nefarious blocking of this ability by Adobe, couldn't you just keep using CS5 until it stops running on the latest OS? And even after that you could run it in a VM.
I think Corel looks great overall. Some of it's vector features are inferior to AI, but probably not enough to be a deal breaker. But no Mac = no bueno for a lot of shops.
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Honestly, I have little use for any of the new features in PS or AI, heck I could run PS 7 and be just fine. Presuming clients are asked to save back, and barring any nefarious blocking of this ability by Adobe, couldn't you just keep using CS5 until it stops running on the latest OS? And even after that you could run it in a VM.
I think Corel looks great overall. Some of it's vector features are inferior to AI, but probably not enough to be a deal breaker. But no Mac = no bueno for a lot of shops.
CS6 vector engine is worth the price alone! If you are still trying to vectorize in CS5, you are missing out big time. We used to send art out almost every week, now it's a click of a button and it's done. We send out maybe once a quarter now.
pierre
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I suspect some influence on this was due to the program being stolen so much. Probably easier to control this way. Sure people can still steal the old versions and maybe someone will get a work around for the cloud stuff to, but at some point that will not make sense of people that are ACTUALLY making money with this software.
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Pierre
How does 6 help with better w/ vector?
Thx
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I think he was talking about "Live Trace"... CS6 really stepped up their game for Live Trace.
BTW, CS6 is also 64 bit in Illustrator... BIG deal if you want to utilize more than 4 gigs of ram.
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Also check out Vector Magic, we use it a lot for vectoring stuff and it seems way better than CS5 at least. Have not used CS6 to compare.
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I ask this question a little while back is it really worth the upgrade, I still keep an old win 98 that works and my XP, even though I have newer version of Photoshop and Illy I still use AI 10, this cloud stuff if you look at it ain't that bad I guess 600 a year vs paying 1200 or more at one time Hmmmm. I would really like to check out that tracing program though...
Darryl
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Pierre
How does 6 help with better w/ vector?
Thx
Kevin is right, Live Trace now has a function that computes the straight lines. You can actually vectorize text now and it looks good!
the sliders are a little more intuitive, too.
pierre
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Also check out Vector Magic, we use it a lot for vectoring stuff and it seems way better than CS5 at least. Have not used CS6 to compare.
Vector Magic used to be my go to while on CS5. I have not gone there since getting CS6, it beats it hands down!
pierre
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Well you convinced me to get on CS6 or check out this CC mumbo jumbo. Live Trace can save epic amounts of time in our line of work that all too often involves web files submitted for printing.
From an artists' standpoint I have mixed feelings about live trace type programs but appreciate how quickly you can generate line art elements with it if you get in tune with the controls. It's not as good as hand drawn/hand cut images but it's pretty dang good and it's fast enough that clients can afford work drafted using it.
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Well you convinced me to get on CS6 or check out this CC mumbo jumbo. Live Trace can save epic amounts of time in our line of work that all too often involves web files submitted for printing.
From an artists' standpoint I have mixed feelings about live trace type programs but appreciate how quickly you can generate line art elements with it if you get in tune with the controls. It's not as good as hand drawn/hand cut images but it's pretty dang good and it's fast enough that clients can afford work drafted using it.
send me a file and I'll run it through Live Trace. You can be the judge before spending the money. Now that I think about it, you can get a 30 day trial too!
pierre
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A little FYI, Adobe illustrator CC $19.99/month same for Photoshop CS 6. Both can be installed on 2 different computers. I think you can get an even better deal if you run already a previous version of any Adobe CS product. The whole set of Adobe CC cost right now $49.99 or you can get a 40% discount if you have an old Adobe CS product and pay only $39.99. But who needs all the CC software in our business anyway?
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Creative cloud is the way to go. $600 a year for two computers and the latest and greatest all the time is a steal. Now if your a hobbyist then that is very steep.
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Where are you finding $600 for 2 computers? I think for one we pay $50 and if you have 2 it's $80 for two years then bumps up.
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researched this ALOT last night, think we are gonna go the cloud route. and yes its 2 computers for $50.
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Can both computers both be running it at the same time?
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Yes it is 2 computer you can run at the same time, doesn't matter which OS each computer is. We are looking into doing this next year.
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Where are you finding $600 for 2 computers? I think for one we pay $50 and if you have 2 it's $80 for two years then bumps up.
Are you sure it is $80 for 2 years?
because:
The plan for individual is around $50/month on a one year commitment.
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/design.html (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/design.html)
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two computers is still for only one user from what I understand. They are letting you install it on two computers so you can have it on your laptop and work or home and work and so on. . .
If you have two users, you are supposed to buy two licenses.
First year of CC is discounted, so it would be $30/month. This means $60 for two licenses.
The problem with this is, I paid under $400 every year to upgrade and owned the software. Now it's $600 per year and I own nothing!
pierre
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i think they should have made it $20 a month per user and more people would jump on it. I won't spend $50 a month on CC, no way in hell. I am a corel guy anyway.
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i think they should have made it $20 a month per user and more people would jump on it. I won't spend $50 a month on CC, no way in hell. I am a corel guy anyway.
And your work reflects it! OOOHHH! Just kidding! ;)
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speak of the devil, just got a CC file that will probably not convert to CS6. 'has gradients. I'll check it out at home. . .
pierre
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And your work reflects it! OOOHHH! Just kidding! ;)
aghhhhh....sorry i was so late responding to this...my internet was turned off and I was waiting for it to finish wee-ooo-wee-oooing at me.
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Most folks seem to have no problem paying "premium" prices for your equipment so why not for your software?.....The cost of Adobe products for me is "rounding error" in the scheme of things (Way way under 1% of my annual sales).....If I avoid "pissing off" just 1 client a year, I probably make my money back.....So I do not own it......I pay monthly for many things I will never own....Not a big deal....So long as I can make money it is no big deal.....
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Whatever happened to GIMP? I believe it only ran on Linux though. I think Evo on here used it awhile back. Anybody else ever used it? I am just curious. Not switching over
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my artist used it and told me it does everything photoshop does. but we aint switching.
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GIMP is a little less than user friendly to say the least. They have a Windows port.
Unfortunately Adobe has gone the way of the monopoly as they ARE the industry standard, for many industries.
Through the years of using their products the quality and usability has gone way the eff down hill.
Ridiculous bugs that never get dealt with, etc. Hell, I only install back versions of effing Reader for crying out loud.
And don't even get me started on PDF forms.
Basically, I would have a heck of a lot more support for them going the subscription route IF they had a heck of a lot
more support for their products.
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Agreed!!
There is also Inkscape (I think that's it) which is the open source version of Illustrator. I can barely use Illustrator so I certainly have never tried Inkscape.
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Set the Way-Back machine to our early days here at TSB. Last post contains a link to some instructions.
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,267.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,267.0.html)
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I'm being dumb here but you do need the the internet to use CC right? so what if your net goes down or something no artwork, atleast if you have the program out right you can use anytime you please even if the electric goes out you can still work on your laptop if needed.
More pros & cons to CC or any other program you have to depend on some one else Hmmm.
Darryl
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I'm being dumb here but you do need the the internet to use CC right? so what if your net goes down or something no artwork, atleast if you have the program out right you can use anytime you please even if the electric goes out you can still work on your laptop if needed.
More pros & cons to CC or any other program you have to depend on some one else Hmmm.
Darryl
Darryl,
we covered this before. You only need to connect once in six months if you are on a long term contract.
pierre
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It sounds like more than "Cloud Based", it's now going to be Download only.
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Ok I missed that, so I'm like Frog down load base so every six months it times out? and you just renew like I do my antivirus software, but you still pay monthly. I still like the idea of having a cd or jump drive with the program on it.
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Go to Adobe site, there is a video on their site called 5 myths of CC. Pretty much explains EVERYTHING!
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Is anyone running CC currently?
My install of CS4 on my main mac pro workstation has officially shat itself. Dang near drove me insane before I confirmed that it's just buggy, both illy and PS- preferences like saved workspaces changing, constantly repopulating swatches, removing my character and PMS coated palettes, re-opening layers when they were closed on save, pasting objects just wherever the hell it wants rather than on the selected layer, the occasional total loss of saved work when working in multi-channel mode (even in time machine copies) and on and on and on. Wasting a lot of time each day I keep using the suite as it is.
I know we pretty much all have to go to CC and I don't really have a choice so if anyone has a few tips on moving over I'd love to hear 'em.
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Is anyone running CC currently?
We do run it now for 3 month I think. Works perfect. No issues. Even if the internet is down. Don`t know where these rumours come from that you can`t run it if you have no access to the net? Loving the constant notifications regarding free upgrades available you get once you have signed up. Trace function is the bomb, much better then in the old version.
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Rockers, thank you! That's what I needed to hear. Installing new versions of Adobe CS has taken up to a day or longer to smooth out in the past due to bugs with the current OS and CS versions and we're so freaking busy that I don't have that time. Sounds like CC has it all figured out. What OS are you running it on? Still on Snow Leopard here.
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I'm running windows 7 64bit here and have cc installed. I have it installed on the computer at the shop and here at home I actually haven't taken advantage of the cloud yet though I just save it at one place or the other and email it back and forth. I've had it for around 4 months now and so far I'm digging it.
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Rockers, thank you! That's what I needed to hear. Installing new versions of Adobe CS has taken up to a day or longer to smooth out in the past due to bugs with the current OS and CS versions and we're so freaking busy that I don't have that time. Sounds like CC has it all figured out. What OS are you running it on? Still on Snow Leopard here.
My MAC is on Mavericks and my wife runs CC on here MAC with 10.6.8.
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I'm running windows 7 64bit here and have cc installed. I have it installed on the computer at the shop and here at home I actually haven't taken advantage of the cloud yet though I just save it at one place or the other and email it back and forth. I've had it for around 4 months now and so far I'm digging it.
We don`t use there Cloud either for saving our files. We got our own cloud server at our shop which allows us to access all files not only artwork files from anywhere on our mobile devices or laptop.
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Perfect, exact version I'm on, 10.6.8 Sounds like they hay have overcome some issues with new releases with CC, at least I hope the did, I used to dread upgrading either the OS or adobe suite, it used to be a guaranteed bummer every time.
CC let's you store active art? That sounds convenient. We use dropbox for quick access to quoted and active jobs and then the files get put to bed in Google Drive and on a local HD that's backed up. I'd be happy to have cloud storage built in with Adobe.
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I just added (CC) on my personal lap top. Seems to be running fine.
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I've been using CC here since it came out. The way I look at it, is that I use Illustrator, Photoshop and Lightroom... if I'm bought them the 'first' time, and then upgrades to the newest version every other year or so, it's nearly the same price as just buying CC... plus, now you get Adobe font access, and the ability to play with any of the other apps too (if we ever had time lol)
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Scott Fresener has some videos on You Tube/T-Biz Network that explains the Adbe Creative Cloud upgrades. I have only watched the first one and he covers alot of stuff.
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What if you have third party plugins like Filterit or Xtrem path. Can you add third party plugin to CC?
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I've been using CC here since it came out. The way I look at it, is that I use Illustrator, Photoshop and Lightroom... if I'm bought them the 'first' time, and then upgrades to the newest version every other year or so, it's nearly the same price as just buying CC... plus, now you get Adobe font access, and the ability to play with any of the other apps too (if we ever had time lol)
the only problem with this is that right now I have a copy of CS6 I can sell and recover a lot of money. When the CC subscription is over, there is nothing left to sell. It's the difference between the lease and purchase. . . I prefer to buy, but am forced to lease in this case.
pierre
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What if you have third party plugins like Filterit or Xtrem path. Can you add third party plugin to CC?
Yes you can add 3rd party plugins.
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I've been using CC here since it came out. The way I look at it, is that I use Illustrator, Photoshop and Lightroom... if I'm bought them the 'first' time, and then upgrades to the newest version every other year or so, it's nearly the same price as just buying CC... plus, now you get Adobe font access, and the ability to play with any of the other apps too (if we ever had time lol)
the only problem with this is that right now I have a copy of CS6 I can sell and recover a lot of money. When the CC subscription is over, there is nothing left to sell. It's the difference between the lease and purchase. . . I prefer to buy, but am forced to lease in this case.
pierre
You have all the money you made.....Folks keep worrying about how how it costs versus how much money you can make with it.....I have have and love it.....
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I've been using CC here since it came out. The way I look at it, is that I use Illustrator, Photoshop and Lightroom... if I'm bought them the 'first' time, and then upgrades to the newest version every other year or so, it's nearly the same price as just buying CC... plus, now you get Adobe font access, and the ability to play with any of the other apps too (if we ever had time lol)
the only problem with this is that right now I have a copy of CS6 I can sell and recover a lot of money. When the CC subscription is over, there is nothing left to sell. It's the difference between the lease and purchase. . . I prefer to buy, but am forced to lease in this case.
pierre
You have all the money you made.....Folks keep worrying about how how it costs versus how much money you can make with it.....I have have and love it.....
the problem is, a paid version makes the same amount of money but also builds equity. Anybody with an exit strategy should be taking these things into consideration.
pierre
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There are lots of things you spend money on each month that are gone at the end of the month....Rent, electricity, cell phone, insurance, advertising, etc. etc.....Are you going to start your own power company, telephone company, etc. etc.?....CC is a "drop" in the bucket compared to the average cell phone bill yet it seems to get far more discussion....
PS...I think a cell phone is an expense I can live without, so I do......
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I have to agree with Pierre on this--fifty bucks a month (going straight down the drain) is a drop in the bucket? Plenty of people advertise for themselves, or buy a building so they don't have to rent. I agree with your take on it being an expense, but IMHO, the money isn't the issue, it's the paradigm shift. To me, the issue is that Adobe is no longer making money by creating useful software for us--they're making money by continually changing the terms of the license and charging more.
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Adobe could care less about people that do not see value in their software......I do and it is worth way more than what I pay for it each month....I have no doubt Adobe is working hard to reduce the number of users but make more revenue on each they retain....Is that smart?....No idea yet.....They are focusing on higher value clients and will leave the masses to other companies...Works for me....
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I understand your end of it. Seems odd though, once few can afford it, few use it, ergo few need it. I can't imagine they're blind to the fact.
I'm going to GM with a fantastic new plan to decrease production, and at the same time increase the value of their customers. :P
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A problem with it that I see is US funds, I'm sure there are people around the world having to spend more on it for that reason, In our case there would have been a 10% increase in price over the last year. And if it were the early 2000 's it would have been at +56%. For myself I just purchased CS6 to put off getting it as long as possible.
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Where would you get the idea that few can afford it?....Last I heard they had 1.25 million subscribers.....And based on current pricing for subscriptions versus purchases there is really not much difference in prices, especially if you use more applications.....And if in the future the prices goes up too much and they lose subscribers I suspect they will respond accordingly and reduce prices.....
I guess if you distrust Adobe, it will never be a solution.....But I trust them and love all what is included...
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CC will have to provide some out of this world advantage, something that totally makes me unable to use CS6 for me to switch.. I just can't justify the monthly subscription for no great reason.. But if your business main operations depends on CC then that is what you got to do.. I guess Premier and Encore will make these users more productive but there's nothing in PS and Ai that does this for me..
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I can't say I bring trust into it--if you trust Adobe or MS or Apple or whoever, hey, that's your deal. I just think it's poor judgement and bad business--except, perhaps, for the stockholders. The Cnet survey I saw placed 93% of people looking for alternatives to the Adobe software they were to be forced to subscribe to. The core elements of them not letting you edit or change graphics of yours without paying in perpetuity have not been addressed, and honestly, we have a paltry art collection, and it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to import/export and redraw what we had to.
As far as affording it, you can google a zillion results of people complaining about the price, and I, personally, am one who will not be able to afford their new business model. I know I'm not the only one running an old version so people can give us saved down native files instead of bitmaps or corel files. If I really need CC for something, I'll rent time on someone elses computer. You know, a high value customer. ;D
And as far as this type of software 'contract' goes, you can read all about how nearly every *nix OS has bit the dust because of draconian licensing and price gouging--we may see history repeat itself, as GIMP and XDraw keep racking up millions and millions of downloads...
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Maybe I'm missing something here? I might be wrong on my prices, however you can add your own #'s in here:
the 'cost' of illustrator+photoshop cs6 is like $1400-$1500...
if you say that you're keeping the version for let's say 2 years, you're looking at $62.50/month...
the $50 a month for the cloud subscription is 'cheaper', plus you can write it off every year as a business expense.
(as far as Gimp and Xdraw goes, I love open source, and I'm a huge linux supporter, but neither of those applications truly compete with Illustrator/Photoshop, they're harder to use, more finicky, and nowhere near as polished).
Also, the tracing tools in Illustrator are awesome... saves me tons of time and money in sending them out each month.
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With the rule of thumb being upgrading software every 3. The traditional set up was cheaper plus the fact that I could run it on 3 computers at the same time makes a huge difference. In the end it's just the cost of doing business, I could probably pay for the subcription if I just moved my squeegees and floodbars closer to the press so the press up didn't have to walk so far.
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Maybe I'm missing something here? I might be wrong on my prices, however you can add your own #'s in here:
the 'cost' of illustrator+photoshop cs6 is like $1400-$1500...
if you say that you're keeping the version for let's say 2 years, you're looking at $62.50/month...
the $50 a month for the cloud subscription is 'cheaper', plus you can write it off every year as a business expense.
(as far as Gimp and Xdraw goes, I love open source, and I'm a huge linux supporter, but neither of those applications truly compete with Illustrator/Photoshop, they're harder to use, more finicky, and nowhere near as polished).
Also, the tracing tools in Illustrator are awesome... saves me tons of time and money in sending them out each month.
Upgrades to the latest version were in the $370 range. You could be running the latest and greatest for much less than $50/month.
Pierre
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There are already some pretty big differences between 6 and CC
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I am a bit out of context here, but I thought a large reason Adobe went to "the cloud" was to help reduce on pirated copies. While that will definitely reduce the total number of users it will with out a doubt actually increase their legitimate(paid) user base.
What I think will become interesting is if and how it will affect the art files we receive from customers. I suspect we have a good amount of customers that didn't spring $1k+ for design software...
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I've been a big vocal opponent of CC since it was announced a few years back. It seemed to be more accepted so long as they also kept the "buy a copy outright" model. I didn't like that they were forcing users to upgrade every version at one point after years of allowing upgrades from much older versions. I run a full copy of CS4 and have done so for several years now. I would like to upgrade to CS6 but at this point I'm having difficulty find a copy to purchase! I plan to run my CS4 copy and later CS6 copy for as long as possible. I have no plans to ever go to the Creative Cloud
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I think you can still buy it at www.adobe.com (http://www.adobe.com)
PS CC fan here......
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No problem ordering mine from Staples up here, overnight. About a month ago?
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It's an outstanding value for me.
I use PS, Illy, Dreamweaver, Premiere, Sound Booth, After Effects, Bridge, Acrobat, InDesign, and even the encoder. The cost of all those combined is staggering.
I do save back though and I save in other forms.
There was some weird bruh stuff in PS and a couple other things in After Effects that chapped my hide, but I got over it.
At that cost it might be worth it to download a bunch of stuff you don't know and figure out how to use it. It's not that bad.
(note: I did pick up Sketchbook Pro though......just in case. :) )
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new version is coming out in few weeks. 'curious to find out what they will be adding.
Also, CC for teams is 40% for few more days. It offers better licensing management, phone support and cloud collaboration. at $39.99 per month for two years, I am actually debating signing up. (we have one CS6 and one CC license)
pierre
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new version is coming out in few weeks. 'curious to find out what they will be adding
pierre
Well they added the ability for users to install their older creative suite apps to run along side cc.
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new version is coming out in few weeks. 'curious to find out what they will be adding.
Add.. I can't help but notice Adobe removing bits from each new development
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What do you mean by "New Version"?....
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What do you mean by "New Version"?....
https://creativecloud.adobeevents.com/ccnext/
pierre
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The new updates just installed......
The 2014 release of Adobe Creative Cloud includes 14 updated desktop apps, new mobile apps, and hundreds of new features. These updates make everyday tasks easier and faster, with major performance improvements to our most popular apps like Photoshop CC, Illustrator CC, and InDesign CC.
I love my "CC".....