5 key factors to achieve a great spot white print with plastisol

[Sbrem]

   ANSWER Circa 1978...Thin white ink with mineral spirits, use 8xx mesh, 10xx for fine detail. Use a rounded squeegee blade. Print on a platen covered with a thin layer of foam padding covered with naugahyde.   Don't worry about the stencil thickness 'cause you're using the green hand cut film applied with lacquer and you have no control.  Merry Christmas to all you other old timers than remember what it was like when dinosaurs walked the earth.

The white still had lead in it I think, Andy?

Steve

[alan802]

Most important is the mesh.  If you go into a shop that struggles with printing white whether it be an underbase, top white, one-hit white, whatever, I would wager a bet that there is a 98% chance that they are using standard mesh counts.  I have quite a few local shop owners that come by our shop to pick up their embroidery and they usually stop by the other building to visit with me and check out what we're printing.  None of the 6 or 7 guys that have asked me how our white looks like it does (complimentary) use thin thread mesh.  You can have the very best white ink in the world, sharpest blades, highest tension, perfect off contact, the right EOM, and all of the other things mentioned and if you're using a mesh count that looks like an hourglass your prints will suffer.  They don't have to suffer, they don't want to suffer and whoever is making the decisions on what mesh to use in the shop is the one holding the print quality and production back.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and I say this more to light a fire under those of you who are still using standard mesh counts with plastisol inks, but there really is no GOOD excuse to not be using the right mesh counts for plastisol printing.  Standard mesh counts are not good for the vast majority of plastisol inks and all these suppliers out there hopefully are just stocking what their customers are asking for (there are a few that insist on selling standard mesh for whatever reason...money ) and it shouldn't be hard for anyone to stock the right mesh for the job.  Joe was showing people how much better thin thread was for plastisol printing at least as far back as the mid 90's and the fact that probably 95% or more of the textile printers are still using standard mesh is almost unbelievable to me...almost. 

I hope that my local competitors keep using standard mesh and it's one of the only things I really worry about when it comes to how we compare with the other local shops and quality.  As long as they're using standard mesh we'll always have a superior print quality, will be able to print it faster and use less ink...those are facts that cannot be disputed.

[Frog]

Alan, I suspect that another answer as to why not every shop has changed over to thin thread meshes is the added fragility.
Plain and simple, they are more difficult to care for and require a finesse and concern in handling that seems to be lacking in many employees according to posts I have read here.
Heck, when I see the many piss and moan threads about finding good employees, I'm reminded how happy I am to have remained a one frog operation.

[3Deep]

Alan to your argument, hasn't thin thread been around forever?, I ask several supply companies about S mesh and they all say the same thing that's it's been around forever, but was used I think in the offset printing world.   So why is it taking so long for people to catch on to using this mesh for garment printing?, I know I do like it and yes it's great for printing white ink wish all my screen were S mesh.  My question still is if this mesh is the go to mesh why wouldn't all the screen companies sell it as the standard mesh.

[jvanick]

we are nearly 100% s-mesh here.

only non-smesh screens are 305's for specialty process work, and glitter screens - 24 and 60 mesh.

everything else is 160S and 225S.

[Sbrem]

Alan to your argument, hasn't thin thread been around forever?, I ask several supply companies about S mesh and they all say the same thing that's it's been around forever, but was used I think in the offset printing world.   So why is it taking so long for people to catch on to using this mesh for garment printing?, I know I do like it and yes it's great for printing white ink wish all my screen were S mesh.  My question still is if this mesh is the go to mesh why wouldn't all the screen companies sell it as the standard mesh.

Hey Darryl, it's been around since I can remember; my first shop used 305S, after we graduated from multi-filament. But Offset? For what? Back then there were 3 designations from suppliers as I remember it; HD for heavy duty, T is our "normal" and S for fine stuff (better resolution of details). My guess is the suppliers didn't push it, maybe they weren't as knowledgable as they could have been. I found 110S from Murakami about 15 years ago, so yeah, it's been around.

Steve

[Homer]

Still waiting for Bimm to tell me what he's using....I think it's something geared towards the circuit board industry....Dave?

we use mostly S as well. From River City in Texas. I have been trying screens from tons of vendors over the years and these guys deserve the sale...we could not be happier.

[alan802]

I don't really know how long it's been out, I'm still relatively new to the industry compared to many and only know that Joe was touting it AT LEAST 20 years ago as the mesh to use.  Why it hasn't caught on till now probably has to do with a few different factors but mainly because shops weren't telling the suppliers that it's what they wanted.  I know if I asked for the mesh counts I wanted to use and a supplier told me they couldn't sell it to me I'd just move on and find someone who would.  Free market should square all of it away just fine but I suppose there was also some resistance on the part of the suppliers because I've been told that there is more money in selling standard mesh count (don't know the reason but was told that by someone who would know).  As to the question on why it isn't the standard mesh, well, I don't know why it's not BUT IT SHOULD BE.  It is technically easier to bust but a thin thread screen can last just as long as a standard mesh if you don't abuse it.  If we had a shop with 3 of me in production I doubt we'd ever bust a screen, or it would be only a few per year.  A shop that takes care of their screens won't have issues with the delicacy of thin thread mesh.

[Wildcard]

I might need to dig a little deeper, but every screen supplier and re-mesh operation that I have looked into here only offers T mesh. When I've asked about S mesh I don't really get any results, but lets leave that aside until I've done more searching and assume there is no regular supply of S mesh in Australia: If I am going to import my own mesh it makes sense to also go to retensionable frames.
Any recommendations for a retensionable frame system with S mesh options that has a good price/quality balance? I'm assuming I wont be able to afford the best. Shurloc vs Newman? Is this question going to derail the thread topic

[brandon]

Not trying to derail thread. Messaging you now.

[ScreenFoo]

How about one?

Peel.

[Maxie]

For those of you who mention warming the plastisol, what if the ideal temperature to print at?

I tried S Mesh and my shop couldn't handle it, kept ripping the screens.    We are moving soon and hopefully our plant with handle S mesh better.

[Frog]

For those of you who mention warming the plastisol, what if the ideal temperature to print at?

I tried S Mesh and my shop couldn't handle it, kept ripping the screens.    We are moving soon and hopefully our plant with handle S mesh better.

I don't know the ideal temp, but when it's stored in a room with a thermostat set to 70, it works nicely for me.

[jvanick]

I think different plastisol behaves better at lower temps..

ie.  OneStroke Hybrid and Bravo Flex whites... those inks are smooth and easy to print even on a cold press first thing in the morning when the shop is around 60 degrees...

other inks, yes I think you need to warm them, or modify them to get them to print correctly (rutlands crap comes to mind... never could get a good print without modifying the hell out of them).

[Wildcard]

^ This is true for my experience. I find Sericol low bleed white right out the bucket to be easier than Wilflex Artist white, however after a good workout on the auto that Artist white is like a completely different ink.