I need help

[jesterapparel]

Okay.  So I saw a customer wearing a shirt today at a eating establishment and it was gold ink on black gildan 2000 shirt.
The gold was coming off and you could see the white underbase.
He said the Hoodies were worse.  He actually had a hoodie on that I didn't do that was from a different vendor and it was doing the exact same thing.  So I asked if it was just his (thinking he was doing something in the wash) and he said no, all of the ones that had gold on black the gold was coming off.

I'm stumped, what did I do wrong?

I know I print, flash, print, flash the white under base and than printed the gold on top.
On the hoodies I may have just printed the underbase once.

What is causing this.  Never had a problem before with this.

Ink used was wilflix quick white and ultasoft gold ink from union.

Note: this guy actually has an order placed with me again that I'm doing tomorrow and never complain.
Wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't seen him out and about.

note:white is not cracking or coming off.

[ScreenFoo]

Sounds like you cured the white--if the white isn't washing off but the gold is.  They aren't cracking?

[jesterapparel]

Sounds like you cured the white--if the white isn't washing off but the gold is.  They aren't cracking?

No, the white is fine.
Can you not cure the white and print on top of it?
I always thought it didn't matter.  I try and heat until its okay to touch.  But not to many seconds more.

[ScreenFoo]

It's only happened to me on sweats, but with some ink combinations, if you actually cure the underbase instead of gelling it, and then overprint, the print on top won't stick.

If you're only flashing a second or two over what it takes to gel the ink, I'd doubt that's the problem.

[Frog]

I have overprinted old prints and had the new prints stick just fine.
That said, comm0on thought and standard procedure is to only barely gel the underbase for better adhesion. Perhaps the gold true metallic needs even more "tooth" than other inks, but I think that more likely, the gold did not fully cure.
Metallics and shimmers require more heat or dwell due to their refectivity. Especially if the problem started with the first wash, that's my vote.

btw, an underbase is usually not p/f/p, since you aren't going for a really solid ink layer, just white enough to cover the black and help the ink pop. If you are going to that much work making a white underbase, you may want to experiment just p-f-p with a gold shimmer only  through a 110 or 120.

[jesterapparel]

I have overprinted old prints and had the new prints stick just fine.
That said, comm0on thought and standard procedure is to only barely gel the underbase for better adhesion. Perhaps the gold true metallic needs even more "tooth" than other inks, but I think that more likely, the gold did not fully cure.
Metallics and shimmers require more heat or dwell due to their refectivity. Especially if the problem started with the first wash, that's my vote.

btw, an underbase is usually not p/f/p, since you aren't going for a really solid ink layer, just white enough to cover the black and help the ink pop. If you are going to that much work making a white underbase, you may want to experiment just p-f-p with a gold shimmer only  through a 110 or 120.

It's not a gold shimmer, just a regular gold.

[ebscreen]

I hope the ink techs can chime in.

If the underbase is fully cured, and you print a top layer on it,
would you require "re-melting" the underbase layer to bond with the top layer?
I could see getting to curing temps, especially measured at the top, and not
bonding with the base.


I'm with Andy in not having cured base/top layer adhesion problems, but we generally
tend to shoot for gelling the base only, and quite a bit towards "over" cure then under.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Most yellow/golds are overloaded with pigment, no? Could that be an issue?

[jesterapparel]

I hope the ink techs can chime in.

If the underbase is fully cured, and you print a top layer on it,
would you require "re-melting" the underbase layer to bond with the top layer?
I could see getting to curing temps, especially measured at the top, and not
bonding with the base.


I'm with Andy in not having cured base/top layer adhesion problems, but we generally
tend to shoot for gelling the base only, and quite a bit towards "over" cure then under.

I keep the same setting on the dryer, they come out at 360 plus when I shoot the temp gun on them.

[Frog]

Too much pigment has given me rub off onto white, but not curing issues.
I'm still trying to swith directions and wrap my head around his "gold" being Golden Yellow rather than metallic or shimmer! lol!

I still say that the UB is too heavy, whether it's over cured or not.

[mk162]

if that is an issue, you can heat press them to press the ink into the next layer.  I don't like to do it, but it works.

Sounds to me like an overcured underbase, or there was enough heat to cure the white, but not the gold.  Sometimes those colors take so much longer to cure than white.

[Gabe]

a cold draft into the shop can screwed things up
in these time of the year

[RICK STEFANICK]

i'm sure the reason is a over flashed underbase.. fleece holds heat and its easy to overflash ..

[Donnie]

Your pallets retain heat and less heat is required as you go along. I'll bet your under base was cured.

[jesterapparel]

Your pallets retain heat and less heat is required as you go along. I'll bet your under base was cured.

These were done a while ago, I'm trying to remember if this was one of my first jobs on the auto.
It's really bothering me cause I'm worried other work is looking the same.