S or LX?

[ZooCity]

Been running both.  Need to buy a bolt of 150 and a few others so I'll be stuck with one or the other for a long while.

I'm honestly thinking I like the regular S better than the LX.  I haven't seen anything different about LX that makes it better and it's kinda weird to load an stretch.  LX almost seems to have more drag than regular S and somehow stain worse though I'm not sure how that's possible if the knuckles are welded.  Undyed is also a downer. 

Who else has been running both?

[TCT]

We have run both. Pierre had mentioned back when I asked the difference that the LX was more fragile. I DEFINITELY agree! That LX seems to get a snag or tear all the time. I am sticking with the S.

[Admiral]

I would only consider the LX if we did a lot of waterbase, but we only do it once every couple months.

The more fragile part is what turned me off. 

[Colin]

We use the Sure lock frames and panels.  So we are at the mercy of whoever creates the panel in terms of tension and possible nicks etc...

I loved the LX mesh, specifically 150LX.... I wish the panels we were getting of it were more consistent (at that time) for tension and what we believe, was a bolt that was not optimal.

With that said, I did not like how they dropped to below 23 newtons.... I would love to see how they play out on newman roller frames.

I did notice improved ink matte and print quality using the LX compared to the S thread that we are running now.

Yes, the downsides are tension and fragility.  Depends on how aware your printers are for longevity of a screen.

But for waterbase.... ohhhh so amazing. 

We use the 180LX still and love seeing the difference in ink deposit for waterbase and plastisol.  But they are low tension, 22-23 newtons at best.

Bottom line, I love em.... but they are a headache sometimes.

**Edited to add in the 150LX part

[mimosatexas]

I'm not up on my mesh info, but what is the difference between the LX and S in simple terms.  I just picked up a few S mesh statics to tryout.  I probably do 50% discharge, and would love a mesh that offers some benefit as far as better penetration without losing detail and less drying in etc.  Any info is helpful.

[IntegrityShirts]

If I can barely keep a 135/48 s-thread screen alive for more than 5 reclaims, I should never buy LX mesh lol.

[TCT]

I'm not up on my mesh info, but what is the difference between the LX and S in simple terms.  I just picked up a few S mesh statics to tryout.  I probably do 50% discharge, and would love a mesh that offers some benefit as far as better penetration without losing detail and less drying in etc.  Any info is helpful.

I could be wrong, but it was explained to me that with the LX the knuckles where the strands meet is welded differently. Allowing for more open space, since the knuckle or intersection has a smaller diameter.
Either that or they just wanted to be cool like car companies and have different trim packages. Both options would make perfect sense. 

[3Deep]

I've found over the years dyed mesh works great for me, halftones and fine lines burn way better on the dye mesh than the white mesh unless we are using 110 then it's white mesh all day.

Darryl

[Colin]

The LX is calendered mesh.  I.E. hey have a rolling process that kinda welds the knuckles together (it's not perfect, but close).  This allows the mesh to have no thread slippage between the knuckles.  The thread slippage between the knuckles is a good portion of why mesh looses tension for those first 3-5 print/retension cycles.

It also has a smaller thread diameter.  the 150 mesh is a 48 micron thread.  It has a HUGE open area as a result.  Awesome for thicker inks - like white - and for allowing waterbase to rush through it like a waterfall.

With the right emulsion I have kept AMAZING detail on the white LX mesh.  Both 150 and 180.

You do need to find an emulsion that has very good "bite" on the thread and can keep fine lines without pulling away from the thinner threads.  Typically those emulsions are a bit more stiff..... I'm having a hard time describing what that means.

My opinion is try out the LX mesh and see if your shop is a good fit.  It's not optimal for all shops......

[brandon]

Hey Colin,
I will be up and running late next week. Best holiday present ever! But I am excited to be printing with the LX. The samples Kelly gave me back in Seattle sold me on first print. Great stuff. But I could see how it would not be suitable for some shops.

[Colin]

WOOHOO Brandon!!!!!

Yea, yours is one of those shops where an LX mesh will shine.  You do a ton of waterbase and you have employees (or will have employees) who actually pay attention!

If a shop has employees who treat tools (screens, squeegees, ink scrapers, etc...) like they are on a construction job site, a screen will not last long

[brandon]

WOOHOO Brandon!!!!!

Yea, yours is one of those shops where an LX mesh will shine.  You do a ton of waterbase and you have employees (or will have employees) who actually pay attention!

If a shop has employees who treat tools (screens, squeegees, ink scrapers, etc...) like they are on a construction job site, a screen will not last long

Thanks Colin! However, my past shop couldn't handle LX actually for a few reasons I can't/won't go into here but going forward oh heck yes. And the new employees I have lined up already understand that cleanliness, organization, and treating our tools of the trade with the respect they deserve goes a long way into creating the best prints possible.

[ScreenFoo]

It would be excellent for prints requiring a very thin stencil.

I'd think it would be pretty poor for basing though--the knuckles bulge out when they calendar mesh, never seen any 'regular' calendared mesh that had what we would consider a 'bad' open area, much less anything like the S meshes OA. 

Is this stuff different?  I've poked around a few times trying to find thread diameters and thicknesses as well as the open area but haven't found a chart of theirs listing LX on it...

[ZooCity]

Chart is here http://murakamiscreen.com/s-mesh-guide/

The specs are identical in terms of thread/tension/open area. 

That is really helpful to know that it's calendared Colin I was wondering how the hell the knuckles were "welded".  The welds must not be complete though because I haven't noticed that LX holds tension any better or worse than S, maybe I need to look closer.  Also, you would think this process smooshes the thread out and would slightly reduce open area.

I like where things are going with the LX type of concept- super strong core, softer outer coating for adhesion and ink passage.  If it gets developed enough this could yield mesh with supreme open area and high tension.  Can you imagine printing something like a 150/48 at 35n/cm? 

We've ran almost all of the more common S meshes and I haven't noticed LX being too much more fragile, maybe a little but I can't quantify it.  135 is super fragile as is 310.  I love both of these meshes and we do still run 135 but 310 had to go as that mesh simply costs too much to run at the rate it breaks down.  Replaced with 330 which is great too but man, that 310 was mind blowing for halftone work. 

I have noticed that LX, as noted in Murakami's page above, seems to have more drag/higher rz.  This stumps me as well, you'd think the softer, calendared thread would make for a lower rz. 

[ScreenFoo]

Hmmm.  Got that chart, and I'm not going to say there's no way I could believe the specs are the same, but now I want to get my hands on a scrap of 150 LX to check it under the micro. 

As I understand it, calendaring mesh splays out the knuckles and (for many of our purposes) destroys the OA--which was about half the reasoning behind it in the first place, IIRC.  Stuff was (is?) popular in high mesh counts for very thin ink deposits made possible by flattening the knuckles. 

If they can make the same thread thickness/count mesh a sizable and measurable amount thinner without changing the geometry otherwise, that's a heck of a trick.