Flash time counting - how do you time your flash?

[spencer_L&KC]

My shop is very small, manual only, running an 18"x24" BBC Black Flash. We are working on an Anatol Thunder that has 16"x22" pallets. We have a lot of customers who want large prints. When printing say a 15" x 20" print, it takes the the flash a good 8-10 secs to get those top and bottom parts of the print dry enough for the next color. In an effort to keep the press moving efficiently, without having to wait longer than needed, or having to print/flash again because we moved along to quickly on one of them, we count the time needed for each flash. When printing I am usually listening to music and that makes counting in my head or out loud difficult to stay accurate.

Our solution is using the stopwatch functionality on an iphone. We print the first color and when we swing that pallet under the flash with one hand, we start the timer with the other. While that is counting we are printing the next garment and when the time reaches where we want it, we swing the carousel for the next garment, and repeat by resetting and restarting the stopwatch. Using the stopwatch gives us a visual of where we are at for each flash and print stroke, keeping things very uniform and easily repeated. We are sort of tired of using the iphone and have been looking for a touch screen timer or stopwatch dedicated for this purpose only, but before we bother buying anything, I thought I would ask how others are counting their flash times.

I understand that most on here are probably working with quartz flashes, which have built in timers, but for those of you still working with infrared panel flashes, how do you count to get accurate repetitive flash times?

[3Deep]

Even thought we have an auto press we still use our manual press from time to time, very simple for me once the flash is good and hot my print strokes is my count, so how every long it take's me to print a shirt it's flashing plus I set my flash about 2 inches over the pallet or adjust the height for whatever I'm printing.

[spencer_L&KC]

Even thought we have an auto press we still use our manual press from time to time, very simple for me once the flash is good and hot my print strokes is my count, so how every long it take's me to print a shirt it's flashing plus I set my flash about 2 inches over the pallet or adjust the height for whatever I'm printing.

So basically youre adjusting your flash temp and distance so that the flash takes as long as the print stroke takes to flood and print, with maybe another "stencil clearing" second stroke? Dont you ever experience times when your print stroke is faster or slower than others? Do you ever get parts of the print still wet because you went faster on a print stroke, resulting in the garment sticking or opacity suffering? Since I have been using a timer, I know for sure there are times when some print strokes are faster than others, by 2-3 seconds, which can be a considerable difference when flashing.

I guess I am a bit OCD, hence the timer. If it takes 8 seconds to flash a print between colors, then I want each flash to be 8 seconds exactly. If I didnt time it, I am positive I would be getting some flashes at 6 or 7 seconds, resulting in less than desired results. My goal is the most consistent prints, shirt to shirt.

Or maybe I am taking the "it needs to be dry but still tacky" too seriously. Maybe I should just run the flash a little warmer and not worry as much about it staying tacky, so long as its not under there a long time coming close to curing the ink.

Thanks for the reply!

[Admiral]

I think you really need to get a larger flash, for these bigger prints.  IR is fine once heated up, but you need it a couple of inches larger than the print in both directions, minimum.

We only use 20x24" flashes here even though we almost always print 14" wide max.  We do print up to 16.5" wide with the larger screens too though.

[spencer_L&KC]

I think you really need to get a larger flash, for these bigger prints.  IR is fine once heated up, but you need it a couple of inches larger than the print in both directions, minimum.

We only use 20x24" flashes here even though we almost always print 14" wide max.  We do print up to 16.5" wide with the larger screens too though.

Which flash do you have that is 20"x24"? I don't think BBC makes that sizes, the next size up is 24"x24". I am interested in quartz, but the next upgrade is a larger dryer.

My 18"x24" which is actually more like 17"x23" panel, does seem to fit the "couple of inches larger than the print" bill already though. My max print size is 15"x20".

[Admiral]

17x23 is decently big and should work well actually.  We have M&R quartz flashes, all 20x24.  I remember our earlier smaller IR flashes being problematic with top / bottom or sides flashing and solved it a long time ago with bigger flashes, so thought it was the same issue.

[ebscreen]

I'll add that when you are maxing out print area with an IR flash the slightest breeze can cause issue.

As for timing like another poster said it's really just a matter of getting in the groove, it's been a looonnnggg time since I've manually
printed but I don't recall ever counting.

I think over-flashing is a bit of a myth as well, never had washing issues where top colors were coming off from a base.
As long as your dryer is at right temp/dwell you're re-melting everything anyways.

[3Deep]

Even thought we have an auto press we still use our manual press from time to time, very simple for me once the flash is good and hot my print strokes is my count, so how every long it take's me to print a shirt it's flashing plus I set my flash about 2 inches over the pallet or adjust the height for whatever I'm printing.

So basically youre adjusting your flash temp and distance so that the flash takes as long as the print stroke takes to flood and print, with maybe another "stencil clearing" second stroke? Dont you ever experience times when your print stroke is faster or slower than others? Do you ever get parts of the print still wet because you went faster on a print stroke, resulting in the garment sticking or opacity suffering? Since I have been using a timer, I know for sure there are times when some print strokes are faster than others, by 2-3 seconds, which can be a considerable difference when flashing.

I guess I am a bit OCD, hence the timer. If it takes 8 seconds to flash a print between colors, then I want each flash to be 8 seconds exactly. If I didnt time it, I am positive I would be getting some flashes at 6 or 7 seconds, resulting in less than desired results. My goal is the most consistent prints, shirt to shirt.

Or maybe I am taking the "it needs to be dry but still tacky" too seriously. Maybe I should just run the flash a little warmer and not worry as much about it staying tacky, so long as its not under there a long time coming close to curing the ink.

Thanks for the reply!

Yes you got the jest of it, I really can't say if I speed up or slow down on print strokes have caused me problems, once I'm locked in printing it's all good, but I've been doing this for over twenty years now

[whitewater]

It's been a long time for me since ive printed on a manual, but when I did it, id count the first couple shirts then it was all on feel. my internal clock...LOL

[spencer_L&KC]

17x23 is decently big and should work well actually.  We have M&R quartz flashes, all 20x24.  I remember our earlier smaller IR flashes being problematic with top / bottom or sides flashing and solved it a long time ago with bigger flashes, so thought it was the same issue.

Gotcha. I think I will drop down the flash an inch, to get to 2" away from the pallet. I dont have issues flashing larger prints, so long as the flash is timed well. Thats why I was asking how others count their flash times. I guess nobody in here does that. lol

I'll add that when you are maxing out print area with an IR flash the slightest breeze can cause issue.

As for timing like another poster said it's really just a matter of getting in the groove, it's been a looonnnggg time since I've manually
printed but I don't recall ever counting.

I think over-flashing is a bit of a myth as well, never had washing issues where top colors were coming off from a base.
As long as your dryer is at right temp/dwell you're re-melting everything anyways.

So the counting thing is something I will continue to do. I guess its a bit of an OCD thing for me, but I find comfort in knowing every single print is getting the exact same flash time. I do reduce the flash time as the pallets heat up though, but once we are humming, I want that same flash time for each print. Not counting would def mean dif flash times because I know, when using the stopwatch, some flood and print strokes are faster than others, sometimes by 2 or more seconds.

I suppose the "over flashing" being a myth would help me remove the counting. If that is the case and I wont see colors coming off the base, then who cares if my print stroke was a little longer, so long as it isnt wet when it comes around for the next color. I did have another printer once tell me "who cares if you even cure the base before top colors", but I thought he was crazy because everyone I know and all I have ever heard was to keep it tacky and not over flash. Now im curious to get opinions on over flashing.

Yes you got the jest of it, I really can't say if I speed up or slow down on print strokes have caused me problems, once I'm locked in printing it's all good, but I've been doing this for over twenty years now

Understood. I will say I am surprised to not have any replies saying they do count. As stated in another reply, maybe I am putting too much stock into not "over flashing".

It's been a long time for me since ive printed on a manual, but when I did it, id count the first couple shirts then it was all on feel. my internal clock...LOL

When you did count, it was just out loud, or in your head? Or did you use a timer?


Thank you all for the replies! This thread has me thinking that "over flashing" isn't really a thing, within a reasonable amount of time of course. Im going to search for a thread on that topic, and if one does not exist I will start one. Seems like an interesting topic and could benefit new printers reading.

[whitewater]

Just in my head..


For me there was no set " time" . Different types apparel react differently to the flash. Also when I started I did not have heat in my shop. So it ewas different in the winter than the summer. You do one or 2 shirts of an order and that was it. No overthinking.

And yes one time, one time we had a customer bring back shirts because the top colors washed off the underbase. Someone one we were training did it on their first order. I can not say If it was over flashing, but it happened.

[spencer_L&KC]

Just in my head..


For me there was no set " time" . Different types apparel react differently to the flash. Also when I started I did not have heat in my shop. So it ewas different in the winter than the summer. You do one or 2 shirts of an order and that was it. No overthinking.

And yes one time, one time we had a customer bring back shirts because the top colors washed off the underbase. Someone one we were training did it on their first order. I can not say If it was over flashing, but it happened.

Understood. Sounds like I need to just get over the whole "every shirt must have an identical flash time", and just let the pallets spin as I work. Thanks for the input.

[tonypep]

The old Riley Hopkings Swing away flash is the way to go. Some had forced air I believe. You could set time, temp etc. and it would simply swing out of your way and back in. Foot pedals on some, others had a mechanical motion detector. IR at the time so it was always on at the set temp.
Someone probably makes something similar but yes, shell out the dough.

[balloonguy]

The old Riley Hopkings Swing away flash is the way to go. Some had forced air I believe. You could set time, temp etc. and it would simply swing out of your way and back in. Foot pedals on some, others had a mechanical motion detector. IR at the time so it was always on at the set temp.
Someone probably makes something similar but yes, shell out the dough.

I saw something like this from vastex. I have a flash that I bought from them in 2004 (or around there) and it still works perfectly!