Topic for discussion

[farmboygraphics]

Someone on my personal FB feed asked if anyone could make a few tees for a birthday party and I was surprised by the numbers of "I can" that popped up along with those that tagged others. The amount of kitchen table "shops" there are here was unexpected. There were even quite a few who were doing even more such as those with dtf and uv-dtf printers. I also learned that one of the regular shops in town got a larger dtf printer and is selling gang sheets on their fb page. Just last week a regular customer was looking at my Roland VG-2 and said they were thinking about getting one because they thought they could make good money judging by prices they see on sticker mule. Just turned 60 a few weeks ago and it's also 25 years doing this nonsense. I realize none of my equipment, even though it's maintained, will be worth squat. I know this has been discussed before at length, but I truly wonder how long traditional screen printing with be able to hold on. Not meant to be a doom and gloom post, but this is a changing landscape. PS...I've already had schools cutting back on orders, but that's another topic $$$

[Zelko-4-EVA]

i dont think that some of these 'kitchen table shops' calculated the ROI of the equipment - by the time the machine is paid off its not really worth much because in those years the newer generation of printer is better and cheaper to run.  i dont think we even broke even on our DTG printer (F2000 epson). 

we used to print stickers on a roland ecosolvent printer and we werent making money on it. 

i think the only thing that consistently makes us money is screenprint and embroidery.  anything digital we have someone else make it and ship to us, its substantially cheaper, easier, faster and less of a headache for us.

if you buy a Roland sticker printer, how much profit can you make per sticker? pennies or dollars?

[Homer]

i dont think that some of these 'kitchen table shops' calculated the ROI of the equipment - by the time the machine is paid off its not really worth much because in those years the newer generation of printer is better and cheaper to run.  i dont think we even broke even on our DTG printer (F2000 epson). 

we used to print stickers on a roland ecosolvent printer and we werent making money on it. 

i think the only thing that consistently makes us money is screenprint and embroidery.  anything digital we have someone else make it and ship to us, its substantially cheaper, easier, faster and less of a headache for us.

if you buy a Roland sticker printer, how much profit can you make per sticker? pennies or dollars?

We have 2 "sticker printers" but we don't really make stickers in that sense, we do car wraps, fleet graphics, signage etc. Sticker shops don't exist around here since it's so easy to go to sticker mule and get 50 stickers for 25 cents... The CriKet Karens Tom is speaking of is a major issue though. Like I've said a million times, they completely suck the value right out of a printed shirt...  "Kathy Krafter" has a cute idea for a Cheer T shirt and all of a sudden the cheer team is  buying their goods from her, cool there goes another account. They only see the price, zero value in anything else..... Look what's going on with AI and artwork..... It used to take time and skill to create a custom design.  Now any idiot with a phone can cough up any design you want, print ready, send it to S&S/ Ninja, get your DTFs and blank Ts and HEY you're in business, zero equipment except an Ebay heat press!...And color count means nothing so you can't really price based on number of print colors anymore....it sucks, HOWEVER the people that buy from us are buying from the relationships and service we provide. Just so happens we sell these type of goods....I know a lot of larger companies wouldn't trust Suzy in her basement to print off 10k worth of merch so go ahead, take all the "Baby's 1st Birthday" T's, but please don't tag me in those posts looking for someone....

You want a fun industry, look at what's going on with music! If anyone follows Rick Beato on YouTube, he's really good at explaining it...AI and technology is causing some serious damage.... It's like we're all in this race to be bigger, better and faster but we have no idea where the finish line is and no real reason to get there first...

[T Shirt Farmer]

i dont think that some of these 'kitchen table shops' calculated the ROI of the equipment - by the time the machine is paid off its not really worth much because in those years the newer generation of printer is better and cheaper to run.  i dont think we even broke even on our DTG printer (F2000 epson). 

we used to print stickers on a roland ecosolvent printer and we werent making money on it. 

i think the only thing that consistently makes us money is screenprint and embroidery.  anything digital we have someone else make it and ship to us, its substantially cheaper, easier, faster and less of a headache for us.

if you buy a Roland sticker printer, how much profit can you make per sticker? pennies or dollars?

The issue is they dilute the market and set threasholds for expected pricing. It took me 40 years of making my best prints to learn how little most clients care about print, wash or application quality. IMO the growth in semi automated carousel press's (full automated sooner than most think, talk with the boys @ Supa they have the inside track) it is game over for 70% for traditional screen print shops in a few years time. On top of that you are going to see a lot of aquasitions and consolidation in this space, the fall out will not benfit a lot of smaller shops. Niche shops and volume shops that can leverage resources with uniqness and more decmile will be fine - The strugle is real

The only thing preventing fully automated DTF application is loading, specificaly having the hems of a stack somewhat symetrical with no folds. I image you could pay a mill up charge of say $1 per dozen to have them packaged for automation. Do the math  $1-2 more perdozen vs human labor, auto unloding has been around since Rich Hoffman (GOAT) the major down fall to auto unload was the print QC abilty, DTF greatly lessens the nedd to QC the print.  For giggles dump the quarry into AI and see the numbers

You want to make some $$$$ figure out how the mill can attach to shirt during packaging. Maybe a simplecard stock with puch pin locators the press could grab and pull onto pallet. Design it, patten it sell the rights to mfg/market and take your girl on a nice vacation.

Pattent has been applied for :-)

[whitewater]

Everything is so true here.

We recognized on what was happening. We could not sit and wait for our traditional customer to order from us. We identified who we would like for customers and started to aggressively to go after them.

We brought DTF in house, I like having the control. But we still use our auto, just not as much for smaller orders.

Also within the last year, we have been getting so much AI art, just from contractors, that without dtf I would have to turn it down.

This year is 20 years...alot has changed very recently.

[balloonguy]

We get requests for dtf specifically. There is a dtf provider near me that has a “press room”. You pay a monthly subscription and use the provided heat presses. There is no investment at all. They are using top of the line auto presses.
We have been moving away from screening since covid anyway. I find our other offerings like sublimation, embroidery and laser engraving keep us 1/2 of a step ahead of cricket karen. It just sucks to see these idiots devalue the entire industry in just a few years.
Keep up the good fight!

[T Shirt Farmer]

We get requests for dtf specifically. There is a dtf provider near me that has a “press room”. You pay a monthly subscription and use the provided heat presses. There is no investment at all. They are using top of the line auto presses.
We have been moving away from screening since covid anyway. I find our other offerings like sublimation, embroidery and laser engraving keep us 1/2 of a step ahead of cricket karen. It just sucks to see these idiots devalue the entire industry in just a few years.
Keep up the good fight!

Sorry man, in regards to screening you will not even come close to winning, it will be dying on the vine like a rasin. They call it a whore industry, no barrier to participate like the wild west.

[AntonySharples]

Large scale screen printing production isn't going anywhere.  However, the small shops that have a shelf life anyways, this is just speeding up the inevitable.  Unless you are a massive online POD, no one has ever made money from doing low qty, one offs, etc. in the history of this industry.  DTF is a tool.  I visit 500 shops a year, some really massive places and lots of small shops.  The sky is falling people don't leave their towns and listen to every thing on FB.  I'm telling you, as a distributor, screen printing is alive and well.  DTF is losing steam.

[Homer]

Large scale screen printing production isn't going anywhere.  However, the small shops that have a shelf life anyways, this is just speeding up the inevitable.  Unless you are a massive online POD, no one has ever made money from doing low qty, one offs, etc. in the history of this industry.  DTF is a tool.  I visit 500 shops a year, some really massive places and lots of small shops.  The sky is falling people don't leave their towns and listen to every thing on FB.  I'm telling you, as a distributor, screen printing is alive and well.  DTF is losing steam.

THANK SWEET BABY GEEZUZ

[farmboygraphics]

Wonder how long it's going to take for all this to finally play out. More and more of it popping up in my feeds

[Homer]

Wonder how long it's going to take for all this to finally play out. More and more of it popping up in my feeds

......when the prints start to crack and fall off?

[mk162]

Wonder how long it's going to take for all this to finally play out. More and more of it popping up in my feeds

......when the prints start to crack and fall off?

You'd be surprised, my son's school for the last 2 years has sent home wildly undercured Field Day tees.  Like first wash the ink is cracking and peeling.  This year we ran his through the oven and heatpressed it to make it wearable.  People don't care if the price is right.

[T Shirt Farmer]

Large scale screen printing production isn't going anywhere.  However, the small shops that have a shelf life anyways, this is just speeding up the inevitable.  Unless you are a massive online POD, no one has ever made money from doing low qty, one offs, etc. in the history of this industry.  DTF is a tool.  I visit 500 shops a year, some really massive places and lots of small shops.  The sky is falling people don't leave their towns and listen to every thing on FB.  I'm telling you, as a distributor, screen printing is alive and well.  DTF is losing steam.

Anthony, define Large Scale Shop